i am by no means saying these cards are horrible, and must be dealt with asap. but i am saying that barnes was not poorly designed, but is just broken.
Ahh, worst designed just means string cards people hate? Great, what fun, there are simply not enough places to complain about all those "auto-win" cards.
Tier 0: Quest rogue, no contest, this is the worst card ever made, nerfed twice and force the nerf of a neutral card and still bad.
Tier 1: UI, hunter DK, MC, prenerf CtA, CotW, Patches and Creeper, cards waaaaaaay powerful for the cost or so good are include in anything are very bad designed cards.
Tier 2: All fillers, all cards must have something to be a least take in consideration if will be include in a least one archetype, when completely useless garbage are bad and lazy designed cards.
Baku, Genn, Keleseth, Reno and Kazakus are very good designed cards because they challenge the build, you get something powerful but give up something, for some classes you can do easier than others but still a limitation.
Jade Idol, The Caverns Below and Kingsbane. I don't think Barnes is a bad design, Big Priest is only annoying because the class has great removal and resurrect spells. While I generally dislike infinite bullshit, I don't mind Dead Man's Hand because it's a fun card for value in normal decks, and you can actually beat the Fatigue deck with a lot of archetypes, so I don't find it very toxic. I may be a little biased but I don't consider Reno Jackson to be that bad, I figure a lot of Aggro players hate it but I have no problem beating Highlander decks with Aggro, so I don't mind it.
Patches the pirate was included in something like 70% of decks at one point, he was so broken.
Certain cards are broken in combos. Barnes can be used with resurrect spells and big minions to be a nightmare, but his effect isn't broken in a regular deck. Even shudderwok isn't broken without certain cards. Patches was created broken. It's a card that is so obviously unfair, you wonder why it got printed. His effect essentially was, when you play a pirate,
1. Draw a card. Tutor for Patches.
2. Patches is also a pirate so you have immegiate synergy.
3. Play patches for zero Mana.
4. Give him charge, a typically broken mechanic.
A 1/1 with charge is worth 1 Mana. Card draw is about 1.5 Mana. Patches was zero Mana as soon as you played a pirate
The other most broken cards just evaluated alone:
1. Caverns below (nerfed 2 times directly and recently indirectly, still being played at a high level).
2. Giggling inventor. For five mana you get 4 blocks. Examined another way, 4/5 stats with a divine shield is worth 6. This thing cost one less and added a second divine shield.
i may get lynched for this but imho Rexxar is the worst designed card ever. If you play the most aggressive-face is the place-hunter possible but play rexxar on curve against the heaviest control deck possible, you will actually out value your opponent with a single card that changes the whole archtype of your deck... call me stupid but that should NOT be possible in a healthy card game.
Cant wait for rotation...
Except this card isn't actually played in face hunter because it is way too slow. it pales in comparison to the other cards mentioned here, and your post is basically just salt about some deck you like being recently nerfed. But other than that, fine.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Baku, Genn, Keleseth, Reno and Kazakus are very good designed cards because they challenge the build, you get something powerful but give up something, for some classes you can do easier than others but still a limitation.
Kazakus and Genn are fine. Baku is too powerful for the downside due to early game impact. Reno was just a cash grab for the control crowd, not imbalanced, but leads to long games, and Keleseth is pitifully stupid in terms of gameplay like all highroll cards are.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
i dont think keleseths effect is that bad. at least for rogue. you give up for sap which is incredibly strong in tempo rogues. So rogue has to decide which card they want to use. As a rogue main i always used both on different but same deck( you kkow what i mean).
i mean if that is a problem, reno is a problem too because kabal classes doesnt give up on anything really.
And for big priest, obsidian statue is the most problematic card imo.
All priest resurrection cards are stupidly strong. They gave you value for a lot less mana. 7 mana resurrect 30+/30+ stats with top tier ongoing effects. 2 mana lich king... wtf.
We need more polymorph effects to fight back agains this bs.
What I find interesting about some of the worst designed cards is that they are cards that were already printed on earlier expansion but they can be utilized in an easy way with actually almost having no draw back.
Genn Greymane (always have a turn 1 play and play hero power almost every turn) - Maiden of the Lake (On going effect on a minion and only used honestly in some weird otk decks) Baku the Mooneater (can over power the opponent by only literally pressing hero power) - Justicar Trueheart (late game effect on an absolutely garbage statted minion) Prince Keleseth (getting a high value effect turn 2 with literally giving up nothing - The Mistcaller (garbage stats and dont benefit you as much since you can draw some key minions from your deck) Jade Idol (no fatique with endless swarm of minions - Dead Man's Hand (costs 1 more and reuquires 2nd copy to be in your hand, also doesn't give swarm of minions)
Ok but jade idol came a full year before dmh. Also I'm gonna take the occasion to say how much I love justice truehart. One of my favorite cards in the whole game.
If you need to ask why, then you do not understand what bad DESIGN is. Everyone else is just complaining about overpowered cards, but those cards function as intended -- All of them fill the purpose that they were explicitly designed to fill. If it was a mistake to create them because they were too powerful, that's entirely different.
Toxic arrow, in the kind of game Hearthstone is, given to the kind of class Hunter is, literally has no function and does not work as designed.
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
If you need to ask why, then you do not understand what bad DESIGN is. Everyone else is just complaining about overpowered cards, but those cards function as intended -- All of them fill the purpose that they were explicitly designed to fill. If it was a mistake to create them because they were too powerful, that's entirely different.
Toxic arrow, in the kind of game Hearthstone is, given to the kind of class Hunter is, literally has no function and does not work as designed.
I would say that there are two meanings of it. There are the meaning I began this threat with: Cards which fundamentally has a unhealthy impact on the game and its mechanics, archetypes etc. like I feel Baku/Genn has. Then there are bad design in filler cards and off class cards like Toxic Arrow and freeze Shaman.
Some people seem to mix up the level of power of a card with its core design. Those 2 things are seperate things in most cases. For example: A card can be really powerful but bad in design. An example would be Prince Keleseth.
Then you have cards that have good design and a high powerful level. An example could be Primordial Glyph. The design is not problematic, but you could argue about it being too powerful.
To fix Keleseth, you would need to change the core design to actually change the card. Changing his stats would either break his effect/design or not change anything at all.
Some people mentioned Toxic Arrow as an example for bad design. This basicly underlines my point. Changing stats would be detrimental to the effect. The idea was to create a flexible card with Toxic Arrow, but in the end both possible ways are horrible. Either give poisonous to your own minion and damage it OR deal 2 damage. For 2 mana that is way too weak. Changing the stats would remove either of those intended uses (not counting fringe uses such as giving an opponents minion poisonous to trade off your own minion).
If you need to ask why, then you do not understand what bad DESIGN is. Everyone else is just complaining about overpowered cards, but those cards function as intended -- All of them fill the purpose that they were explicitly designed to fill. If it was a mistake to create them because they were too powerful, that's entirely different.
Toxic arrow, in the kind of game Hearthstone is, given to the kind of class Hunter is, literally has no function and does not work as designed.
Eh? Toxic arrow is actually pretty decent (in Wild). The mech is just better for STD boardwipes, but the arrow lets Wild hunters play at control (Toxic Arrow+Unstable ghoul as a hard AE; Explosive sheep+Play Dead as a 4 damage AE).
Granted, i suspect it was designed to enable minions to trade up, but the change to how deathrattles interact with poison/lifesteal was HUGE for that card.
Toxic Arrow would be powerful if it doesn't say "if it survives". We can posibbly use it with Exploding Bloatbat. That would be the wipe that hunter needs for hundreds of years but it is a big missed opportunity imo. If it survives mechanic is not even hunter's. It is warrior's mechanic. I really don't understand what they think as printing it like that. I don't know but I assumed they play-tested non - if it survives version of the card and it became overpowered at some point. Well, we will never know.
You could be right about Unstable Ghoul but it isn't an instant wipe, a situational one. They designed that like hunter has so many wipe options but hey, he doesn't have any. So the design itself sucked badly. It should have been printed like " Give a minion poisonous and deal 2 damage to it." like give poisonous first than damage it like Earth Shock's silence.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
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Barnes, Baku, genn, and Reno, all are a huge problem
Skidaddle skidoodle your Milhouse manastorm is now a noodle
The worst designed cards are those that allow you to otk or kill your opponent from 30hp with no real interaction.
The mage quest is a great example of a poorly designed card - no fun to play against and an instant loss everytime.
lots of people are saying Barnes, but while he is a problem, i don't think he was poorly designed.
he is very interesting, and he would not be broken if not for cards like Obsidian Statue, Ragnaros the Firelord, The Lich King, Eternal Servitude, and Shadow Visions.
i am by no means saying these cards are horrible, and must be dealt with asap. but i am saying that barnes was not poorly designed, but is just broken.
but to respond to OP, i think it is The Caverns Below, Level Up!, Shudderwock, Shadowreaper Anduin, Kingsbane, Spreading Plague, and as people have said before Baku the Mooneater and Genn Greymane
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
Ahh, worst designed just means string cards people hate? Great, what fun, there are simply not enough places to complain about all those "auto-win" cards.
I think the worst designed cards, off the top of my head, are Harbinger Celestia, Holomancer, Silithid Swarmer, Glacial Mysteries. . . probably a couple others too. Why would I put these cards in my deck?
Tier 0: Quest rogue, no contest, this is the worst card ever made, nerfed twice and force the nerf of a neutral card and still bad.
Tier 1: UI, hunter DK, MC, prenerf CtA, CotW, Patches and Creeper, cards waaaaaaay powerful for the cost or so good are include in anything are very bad designed cards.
Tier 2: All fillers, all cards must have something to be a least take in consideration if will be include in a least one archetype, when completely useless garbage are bad and lazy designed cards.
Baku, Genn, Keleseth, Reno and Kazakus are very good designed cards because they challenge the build, you get something powerful but give up something, for some classes you can do easier than others but still a limitation.
Jade Idol, The Caverns Below and Kingsbane. I don't think Barnes is a bad design, Big Priest is only annoying because the class has great removal and resurrect spells. While I generally dislike infinite bullshit, I don't mind Dead Man's Hand because it's a fun card for value in normal decks, and you can actually beat the Fatigue deck with a lot of archetypes, so I don't find it very toxic. I may be a little biased but I don't consider Reno Jackson to be that bad, I figure a lot of Aggro players hate it but I have no problem beating Highlander decks with Aggro, so I don't mind it.
Patches the pirate was included in something like 70% of decks at one point, he was so broken.
Certain cards are broken in combos. Barnes can be used with resurrect spells and big minions to be a nightmare, but his effect isn't broken in a regular deck. Even shudderwok isn't broken without certain cards. Patches was created broken. It's a card that is so obviously unfair, you wonder why it got printed. His effect essentially was, when you play a pirate,
1. Draw a card. Tutor for Patches.
2. Patches is also a pirate so you have immegiate synergy.
3. Play patches for zero Mana.
4. Give him charge, a typically broken mechanic.
A 1/1 with charge is worth 1 Mana. Card draw is about 1.5 Mana. Patches was zero Mana as soon as you played a pirate
The other most broken cards just evaluated alone:
1. Caverns below (nerfed 2 times directly and recently indirectly, still being played at a high level).
2. Giggling inventor. For five mana you get 4 blocks. Examined another way, 4/5 stats with a divine shield is worth 6. This thing cost one less and added a second divine shield.
Except this card isn't actually played in face hunter because it is way too slow. it pales in comparison to the other cards mentioned here, and your post is basically just salt about some deck you like being recently nerfed. But other than that, fine.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Kazakus and Genn are fine. Baku is too powerful for the downside due to early game impact. Reno was just a cash grab for the control crowd, not imbalanced, but leads to long games, and Keleseth is pitifully stupid in terms of gameplay like all highroll cards are.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
i dont think keleseths effect is that bad. at least for rogue. you give up for sap which is incredibly strong in tempo rogues. So rogue has to decide which card they want to use. As a rogue main i always used both on different but same deck( you kkow what i mean).
i mean if that is a problem, reno is a problem too because kabal classes doesnt give up on anything really.
And for big priest, obsidian statue is the most problematic card imo.
Jade Idol has always been an eldrich horror to me. Amongst other horrible cards are Prince Keleseth, Barnes and The Caverns Below
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
All priest resurrection cards are stupidly strong. They gave you value for a lot less mana. 7 mana resurrect 30+/30+ stats with top tier ongoing effects. 2 mana lich king... wtf.
We need more polymorph effects to fight back agains this bs.
Ok but jade idol came a full year before dmh. Also I'm gonna take the occasion to say how much I love justice truehart. One of my favorite cards in the whole game.
I agree with the guy on the old topic.
You all literally don't understand what the worst designed card means. I will quote his comment here.
and yes I agree also Toxic Arrow is the one of the worst designed cards of Hearthstone.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Prince Keleseth, literally giving up nothing.
Literally
Literally giving up nothing
LITERALLY
GIVING
UP
NOTHING!
Barnes is bullshit, btw
Anyfin can happen
I would say that there are two meanings of it. There are the meaning I began this threat with: Cards which fundamentally has a unhealthy impact on the game and its mechanics, archetypes etc. like I feel Baku/Genn has. Then there are bad design in filler cards and off class cards like Toxic Arrow and freeze Shaman.
Some people seem to mix up the level of power of a card with its core design. Those 2 things are seperate things in most cases. For example: A card can be really powerful but bad in design. An example would be Prince Keleseth.
Then you have cards that have good design and a high powerful level. An example could be Primordial Glyph. The design is not problematic, but you could argue about it being too powerful.
To fix Keleseth, you would need to change the core design to actually change the card. Changing his stats would either break his effect/design or not change anything at all.
Some people mentioned Toxic Arrow as an example for bad design. This basicly underlines my point. Changing stats would be detrimental to the effect. The idea was to create a flexible card with Toxic Arrow, but in the end both possible ways are horrible. Either give poisonous to your own minion and damage it OR deal 2 damage. For 2 mana that is way too weak. Changing the stats would remove either of those intended uses (not counting fringe uses such as giving an opponents minion poisonous to trade off your own minion).
Toxic Arrow would be powerful if it doesn't say "if it survives". We can posibbly use it with Exploding Bloatbat. That would be the wipe that hunter needs for hundreds of years but it is a big missed opportunity imo. If it survives mechanic is not even hunter's. It is warrior's mechanic. I really don't understand what they think as printing it like that. I don't know but I assumed they play-tested non - if it survives version of the card and it became overpowered at some point. Well, we will never know.
You could be right about Unstable Ghoul but it isn't an instant wipe, a situational one. They designed that like hunter has so many wipe options but hey, he doesn't have any. So the design itself sucked badly. It should have been printed like " Give a minion poisonous and deal 2 damage to it." like give poisonous first than damage it like Earth Shock's silence.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!