The worst designed card of all time is Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. No other card turned games into a coinflip like this card. (And there is a certain class with ramp, mostly spells and no "full" board clears....)
Warsong Commander "Give all minions charge" Just look at what happened to her....
Crackle 14 health against Shaman? First comes the spellpower totem, then 2x this card or you want to kill Hench-Clan Thug? Well, better luck next time....
IMO there are some specific things that make a card bad designed:
1) Non interaction category:
Ice Block is the most annoying card ever printed: You just set it up and are guaranteed an extra turn of spells which is extremely infuriating to face especially when you know there is nothing you can do about it. There are other cards in the annoying category but Ice Block easily takes the cake here.
The Caverns Below is a close second and got many people crazy about it, although I personally liked the card because it required a bit more interaction with the board.
2) Coin flip category:
Pre Nerf Patches the Pirate. Probably one of the the worst cards ever made in history: Promotes coin flip like style games where you can win or lose based on opening hand alone.
Prince Keleseth . Same as above but on bit lower level. Still, simply by having Prince in the opening hand win rate can go up as high as 20 percent. That is absurd.
3) Simply Overpowered: We hove lots of examples here but this category usually gets fixed with nerfs eventually.
4) Disappointments: Cards that are so bad that nobody uses them ever. I personally believe we do not need these but hey, Blizzard gotta fill the packs with something right ?
Yes, I am shamelessly stealing from myself in the old topic, and I also agree that OP cards are not the same as bad design. 2 mana Unleash the Hounds with 2 mana Starving Buzzard and the original +1 +1 Undertaker , 1 -2 Small-Time Buccaneer with Patches the Pirate and the 5-5 Corridor Creeper were indeed bad designs, but the most powerful cards ATM are nowhere near that level imo, and they are all good because of other strong cards, not by being insane by themselves. I also don't think those nerfed cards are the worst designed cards either. Look how druid has crumbeled now, despite having some of the cards most people complained about in the old thread, Jade Idol (wild obviously) Spreading Plague and Ultimate Infestation.
My design team hall-of-shame:
Mayor Noggenfogger: Not fun, awful value, not fun to play agianst, can screw yourself over as much as your opponent, minions can still only attack enemies, and I got both an golden AND a normal one in packs, BLAH!
Hemet Nesingwary: Another awful card, mainly made to piss people off after they got their hopes up seeing that glow.
Void Crusher: The first inspire minion, and another one you only hope not to draft in arena or get by random effects. Why the mirror effect on TOP of bad stats? He actually kills himself too
Servant of Yogg-Saron: Spells cast with random targets are bad and not fun! This one sucks a little less in arena, though.
Core Rager: A completely failed attempt at pushing "empty hand" hunter.
Wee Spellstopper: Weak situational effect and understatted. Why??
Backstreet Leper: Pack filler, and a lame excuse for an aggro minion. Would be bad even at 2 mana.
Lil' Exorcist: Completely failed attempt at a tech card vs. the cancerous deathrattle decks at the time.
Vryghoul: Pay 3 health for a situational 2-2 minion. Why?
Divine Strength: Super weak, unplayable pack filler, would not even see play in quest pally.
Wretched Tiller: Another packfiller and a sorry excuse for an aggro minion.
Holomancer: An example of how the design team some times does not consider that your opponent is playing the game too. Terrible stats and useless in just about every situation.
Zerek, Master Cloner: When will the design team learn that requiring you to cast spells on a specific minion is not worth building a deck around? The failures of Eydis Darkbane and Fjola Lightbane should have given some pointers...
Jade Idol , Patches the Pirate and Shudderwock would be my picks. I don't consider 'bad' cards poor design as some have said. As someone who plays a lot of arena, seeing bad cards shine from time to time is a real draw to the mode.
Big Priest overall is the terrible deck that blizzard cleary set out to make into a powerful archetype. Why they would start down this path without considering how it feels to both play and play against big priest (both of which are utterly awful, which makes theis deck special - most OP decks only feel terrible to play against) I have no idea. I'd like to blame just Barnes, but really it's the entire gameplan/design of the deck, I'd have the whole thing nuked.
Overall highroll mechanic is kinda unhealthy for the game. Its because of the HS nature of being limited mana tempo based game and developers printing not enough tools to consider highroll healthy. So Barnes, Jade Idol, Ressurect mechanic, Kobold Illusionist and Voidcaller are the main offenders of healthy design. The whole mechanic in general is managable, but its designed in a bad way so thats why a lot of people consider it unhealthy.
Overall highroll mechanic is kinda unhealthy for the game. Its because of the HS nature of being limited mana tempo based game and developers printing not enough tools to consider highroll healthy. So Barnes, Jade Idol, Ressurect mechanic, Kobold Illusionist and Voidcaller are the main offenders of healthy design. The whole mechanic in general is managable, but its designed in a bad way so thats why a lot of people consider it unhealthy.
My main gripe with Barnes is Y'sharrj, honestly. That, when hit, obviates the deck's main counter (transform effects), which is unhealthy for the deck. Highrolls with counters aren't as bad, as long as the counters can keep them in check.
I definitelly agree with that. Big Priest is managenable with other decks as long as Barnes doesnt pull Yshaarjs on turn 4 or 3 with coin.
Any card with variable outcomes such as Crackle, Lightning Storm or Fireguard Destroyer. Either way it's frustrating, be it for your opponent or yourself depending on whether you high- or lowroll. And even more so when those come with Overload attached to them, eventually further punishing you on the next turn. IMHO that's one of the main reasons why people don't like to play Shaman.
Quote from sanchogrande>>Some cards could be considered for horrible design but just are just so bad that no one ever played them (Temporus, Celestia, etc).
Those cards aren’t badly designed, though: they’re just so situational that you would never put them in a deck.
Harbinger Celestia could be a way to delay your opponent playing some big minion by a turn (say forcing them to play Lich King on turn 9, instead of 8), enough for you to assemble your own lethal package. You can think of any number of potential examples, but the problem is that they’re so rare and situational that you would never actually take it into account when building a deck. But if you were to get Celestia as a random minion somehow, that’s how you would play her. So it’s an interesting concept that forces both players to make counterintuitive decisions: that’s “good design,” even if it never sees play in constructed.
Temporus actually won me a game once when I pulled him from Dragon’s Roar. If your opponent has an almost empty board and is top-decking, while you’ve got enough on the board for a two-turn lethal, you can roll the dice and feel confident your opponent won’t double top-deck into stabilization. Again, not good enough to include in a deck, but the card forces you to analyze the board and your opponent’s hand and make a high leverage decision. I call that good design.
The worst designed card in my opinion, and it’s not close, is Prince Keleseth. Yeah, it’s got a condition that theoretically hurts your early turns, but the game is balanced around unbuffed minion stats (which is why buffing them is a powerful consideration to begin with, one that typically includes other trade-offs). Buffing all of your minions in your deck from one card isn’t a balanced trade-off, made all the worse by his low cost. The Mistcaller, which had a strictly more powerful effect (including minions in your hand) basically never saw play because it was too slow as a 6-mana 4/4. Keleseth should have been similarly expensive. Not including 2-drops alone just isn’t a restrictive enough condition. So that’s my worst designed card.
What makes big priest so obnoxious is the resurrect mechanic, not Barnes. A 1/1 Ragnaros or even a 10/10 Y'shaarj can often be dealt with, but if they are followed by an 8+ mana minion on turn 5, 6, 7 and 8, that becomes pretty problematic.
What makes big priest so obnoxious is the resurrect mechanic, not Barnes. A 1/1 Ragnaros or even a 10/10 Y'shaarj can often be dealt with, but if they are followed by an 8+ mana minion on turn 5, 6, 7 and 8, that becomes pretty problematic.
The whole resurrect-mechanic is totally broken in HS it's laughable... Zerek's Clone Gallery is the topping on a pile a garbage
Barnes is just a huge problem. Although he is an iconic character, he is too strong and degenerate in both Big Priest and a wide variety of N'Zoth, the Corruptor decks. (N'Zoth is not a problem.)
Spreading Plague is absolutely an abomination. Standard players and Wild players both know how annoying and busted this card is. Both pros and newbies alike hate this card and want it destroyed. Mainly broken due to breaking class identity, this card must be dissolved.
Prince Keleseth is quite possibly one of the largest accidental power card of a set. Too swingy.
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The worst designed card of all time is Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. No other card turned games into a coinflip like this card. (And there is a certain class with ramp, mostly spells and no "full" board clears....)
Warsong Commander "Give all minions charge" Just look at what happened to her....
Undertaker "Bring out Hunterstone"
Crackle 14 health against Shaman? First comes the spellpower totem, then 2x this card or you want to kill Hench-Clan Thug? Well, better luck next time....
IMO there are some specific things that make a card bad designed:
1) Non interaction category:
Ice Block is the most annoying card ever printed: You just set it up and are guaranteed an extra turn of spells which is extremely infuriating to face especially when you know there is nothing you can do about it. There are other cards in the annoying category but Ice Block easily takes the cake here.
The Caverns Below is a close second and got many people crazy about it, although I personally liked the card because it required a bit more interaction with the board.
2) Coin flip category:
Pre Nerf Patches the Pirate. Probably one of the the worst cards ever made in history: Promotes coin flip like style games where you can win or lose based on opening hand alone.
Prince Keleseth . Same as above but on bit lower level. Still, simply by having Prince in the opening hand win rate can go up as high as 20 percent. That is absurd.
3) Simply Overpowered: We hove lots of examples here but this category usually gets fixed with nerfs eventually.
4) Disappointments: Cards that are so bad that nobody uses them ever. I personally believe we do not need these but hey, Blizzard gotta fill the packs with something right ?
I feel it is at least worth mentioning Drakonid Operative.
Yes, I am shamelessly stealing from myself in the old topic, and I also agree that OP cards are not the same as bad design. 2 mana Unleash the Hounds with 2 mana Starving Buzzard and the original +1 +1 Undertaker , 1 -2 Small-Time Buccaneer with Patches the Pirate and the 5-5 Corridor Creeper were indeed bad designs, but the most powerful cards ATM are nowhere near that level imo, and they are all good because of other strong cards, not by being insane by themselves. I also don't think those nerfed cards are the worst designed cards either. Look how druid has crumbeled now, despite having some of the cards most people complained about in the old thread, Jade Idol (wild obviously) Spreading Plague and Ultimate Infestation.
My design team hall-of-shame:
Mayor Noggenfogger: Not fun, awful value, not fun to play agianst, can screw yourself over as much as your opponent, minions can still only attack enemies, and I got both an golden AND a normal one in packs, BLAH!
Hemet Nesingwary: Another awful card, mainly made to piss people off after they got their hopes up seeing that glow.
Tortollan Primalist: Did anyone ever play this card? A stupid nerf to Evolve, not much else.
Void Crusher: The first inspire minion, and another one you only hope not to draft in arena or get by random effects. Why the mirror effect on TOP of bad stats? He actually kills himself too
Servant of Yogg-Saron: Spells cast with random targets are bad and not fun! This one sucks a little less in arena, though.
Core Rager: A completely failed attempt at pushing "empty hand" hunter.
Wee Spellstopper: Weak situational effect and understatted. Why??
Backstreet Leper: Pack filler, and a lame excuse for an aggro minion. Would be bad even at 2 mana.
Coliseum Manager: What? Why would anyone play that card?
Lil' Exorcist: Completely failed attempt at a tech card vs. the cancerous deathrattle decks at the time.
Vryghoul: Pay 3 health for a situational 2-2 minion. Why?
Divine Strength: Super weak, unplayable pack filler, would not even see play in quest pally.
Wretched Tiller: Another packfiller and a sorry excuse for an aggro minion.
Holomancer: An example of how the design team some times does not consider that your opponent is playing the game too. Terrible stats and useless in just about every situation.
Zerek, Master Cloner: When will the design team learn that requiring you to cast spells on a specific minion is not worth building a deck around? The failures of Eydis Darkbane and Fjola Lightbane should have given some pointers...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
These two both give moderate to good arena performance as well.
Jade Idol , Patches the Pirate and Shudderwock would be my picks. I don't consider 'bad' cards poor design as some have said. As someone who plays a lot of arena, seeing bad cards shine from time to time is a real draw to the mode.
Big Priest overall is the terrible deck that blizzard cleary set out to make into a powerful archetype. Why they would start down this path without considering how it feels to both play and play against big priest (both of which are utterly awful, which makes theis deck special - most OP decks only feel terrible to play against) I have no idea. I'd like to blame just Barnes, but really it's the entire gameplan/design of the deck, I'd have the whole thing nuked.
Overall highroll mechanic is kinda unhealthy for the game. Its because of the HS nature of being limited mana tempo based game and developers printing not enough tools to consider highroll healthy. So Barnes, Jade Idol, Ressurect mechanic, Kobold Illusionist and Voidcaller are the main offenders of healthy design. The whole mechanic in general is managable, but its designed in a bad way so thats why a lot of people consider it unhealthy.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I definitelly agree with that. Big Priest is managenable with other decks as long as Barnes doesnt pull Yshaarjs on turn 4 or 3 with coin.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Any card with variable outcomes such as Crackle, Lightning Storm or Fireguard Destroyer. Either way it's frustrating, be it for your opponent or yourself depending on whether you high- or lowroll. And even more so when those come with Overload attached to them, eventually further punishing you on the next turn. IMHO that's one of the main reasons why people don't like to play Shaman.
baku and genn will be real problem after rotation
Those cards aren’t badly designed, though: they’re just so situational that you would never put them in a deck.
Harbinger Celestia could be a way to delay your opponent playing some big minion by a turn (say forcing them to play Lich King on turn 9, instead of 8), enough for you to assemble your own lethal package. You can think of any number of potential examples, but the problem is that they’re so rare and situational that you would never actually take it into account when building a deck. But if you were to get Celestia as a random minion somehow, that’s how you would play her. So it’s an interesting concept that forces both players to make counterintuitive decisions: that’s “good design,” even if it never sees play in constructed.
Temporus actually won me a game once when I pulled him from Dragon’s Roar. If your opponent has an almost empty board and is top-decking, while you’ve got enough on the board for a two-turn lethal, you can roll the dice and feel confident your opponent won’t double top-deck into stabilization. Again, not good enough to include in a deck, but the card forces you to analyze the board and your opponent’s hand and make a high leverage decision. I call that good design.
The worst designed card in my opinion, and it’s not close, is Prince Keleseth. Yeah, it’s got a condition that theoretically hurts your early turns, but the game is balanced around unbuffed minion stats (which is why buffing them is a powerful consideration to begin with, one that typically includes other trade-offs). Buffing all of your minions in your deck from one card isn’t a balanced trade-off, made all the worse by his low cost. The Mistcaller, which had a strictly more powerful effect (including minions in your hand) basically never saw play because it was too slow as a 6-mana 4/4. Keleseth should have been similarly expensive. Not including 2-drops alone just isn’t a restrictive enough condition. So that’s my worst designed card.
What makes big priest so obnoxious is the resurrect mechanic, not Barnes. A 1/1 Ragnaros or even a 10/10 Y'shaarj can often be dealt with, but if they are followed by an 8+ mana minion on turn 5, 6, 7 and 8, that becomes pretty problematic.
Dab
The whole resurrect-mechanic is totally broken in HS it's laughable... Zerek's Clone Gallery is the topping on a pile a garbage
Every ''silence" card
Barnes is just a huge problem. Although he is an iconic character, he is too strong and degenerate in both Big Priest and a wide variety of N'Zoth, the Corruptor decks. (N'Zoth is not a problem.)
Spreading Plague is absolutely an abomination. Standard players and Wild players both know how annoying and busted this card is. Both pros and newbies alike hate this card and want it destroyed. Mainly broken due to breaking class identity, this card must be dissolved.
Prince Keleseth is quite possibly one of the largest accidental power card of a set. Too swingy.
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