While we are at it though we should nerf Dr Boom. To much value from 7 mana. I mean 2 boom bots that deal 1-4 damage plus a 7/7 body........ Please look into Dr Boom, Aviana, and Kun please blizz.
As soon as they play Juicy Psychmelon you play either Dirty Rats or Demonic Projects. They are done. You get free win against that deck if you’re play Warlock in wild.
While we are at it though we should nerf Dr Boom. To much value from 7 mana. I mean 2 boom bots that deal 1-4 damage plus a 7/7 body........ Please look into Dr Boom, Aviana, and Kun please blizz.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
While we are at it though we should nerf Dr Boom. To much value from 7 mana. I mean 2 boom bots that deal 1-4 damage plus a 7/7 body........ Please look into Dr Boom, Aviana, and Kun please blizz.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
How many games did you play at which rank?
No, Reno decks are WAY weaker than Aviana/Kun decks.
Also, it is just as much about variety as about power. The top Wild decks atm are Odd rogue and even shaman, both of which do very well vs druids, but Aviana and Kun sit at the very top of the playrates in Wild along with the DK.
I have to agree with OP. I love otk combo decks but basically if you play any other otk combo in wild but Druid, you might as well just concede against every druid. It's also annoying when people are like "woah a new combo deck" and you get excited but oh look it starts with aviana kun like every single other combo. Makes them all look the same. The thing that makes aviana kun so strong imo is because druid has so so so much card draw and armor gain and stall. And they are actually good cards that you would normally run.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
I don't see any reason why Star Aligner is better than Togwaggle, the Star Aligner combo require much more combo pieces and you can't even use Oaken Summons because of all the 3-4 mana combo pieces to thin your deck and battle aggro, Togwaggle only need 4 combo pieces and Juicy Psychmelon draw all of them (it's almost impossible to not get the combo by the time you get to 10 mana).
Togwaggle might be slightly weaker to hand disruption cards but the only classes that even run those cards are warlocks and warriors, and even than they must hit togwaggle or have less than 6 cards for the rest of the game.
Caring fir wild lol like no one plays that mostly bots and people sniping u lol. As for combos hmm dirty rat 🐀 demonic card for warlock I think ur set . To handle any combo decks.
@ SlydE Also, it is just as much about variety as about power. The top Wild decks atm are Odd rogue and even shaman, both of which do very well vs druids, but Aviana and Kun sit at the very top of the playrates in Wild along with the DK.
You must be kidding? FirePalyHSplayer is correct. Star Aligner Druid has 71.1% against rogues and 60.7% against shaman. 8,600 games recorded. Yes, they (druids) do very well ;-)
The most played rogue deck is Kingsbane, and it is very different from Odd. I am not sure if there are enough data to make a solid conclusion about the matchup, but in my own experience, I felt good facing druids playing Odd rogue.
The real problem is juicy psychmelon. This card made the combos with druid way too easy to finish. Really stupid card only played by people who don't want to do any effort in life.
As soon as they play Juicy Psychmelon you play either Dirty Rats or Demonic Projects. They are done. You get free win against that deck if you’re play Warlock in wild.
Ironically enough, I did exactly this against a druid when I was playing Renolock a couple days ago and I pulled out his Witchwood Piper instead. Your logic is right though, it SHOULD work most of the time. Feels bad when it doesn't, but hey, that's hearthstone.
Well, i see: More consistent, higher overall winrate and much faster games (like 3-4 turns and 2-3 minutes faster on average). What did you take into consideration?
It's undoubtedly faster, but the overall winrate is slightly biased against Togwaggle (in HSReplay), not only Star Aligner has much more records, but also none of the togwaggle decks is optimized (no naturelize?!, 0 or 1 copies of Juicy psychomelon?!!?!?)
As for consistency, how a deck with 5 - 8 combo pieces can ever be more consistent than a deck with only 4 combo pieces and 2 copies of a card that draw the whole combo for only 4 mana? Togwaggle is weaker against control warlocks but stronger against aggro (less dead card, better anti aggro tools, specially important against shamans and tempo mages).
The real problem is juicy psychmelon. This card made the combos with druid way too easy to finish. Really stupid card only played by people who don't want to do any effort in life.
Me and a friend of mine are like "exclusive" wild players. It's so much fun when you've played the game this long and have a vast knowledge of all the cards printed. That being said, my experience in wild this season on ladder has been heavily overrun by druids (35% of my matches played were against druid, that is absolutely insane), this is about as bad as it was before they nerfed quest rogue because it was dominating standard ladder. That being said, I agree 100% that this card is one of the big reasons that druid is so oppressive right now. They basically printed a four cost card for druid that says "draw your win condition". As long as you know how to build a deck (or copy one online), you can build this card's draw into a win condition like they did with togwaggle/star-aligner, etc. I agree with many other people that said druid cards in general (especially armor gain) are too powerful, coupled with these other cards, it's easy for them to negate damage while basically playing a solo match. In order for a card like Juicy Psychmelon to be a "balanced card" other classes would need to receive a similar card like "draw four cards from your deck of your choosing", in a nutshell, that's what the power level of this card actually is.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
How many games did you play at which rank?
No, Reno decks are WAY weaker than Aviana/Kun decks.
Also, it is just as much about variety as about power. The top Wild decks atm are Odd rogue and even shaman, both of which do very well vs druids, but Aviana and Kun sit at the very top of the playrates in Wild along with the DK.
I'm consistent rank 5 to Legend player. If you are asking me about that Control Priest, then on ranks 5-3 with winrate above 60% with 28 games. Mostly loses are against Even Shaman and Odd paladin but not Druids or Control decks.
Nope. Reno decks are not weaker than Druids. The abbility to win against anything + good piloting are leading into good results. There is a reason behind why there is no stronger Control decks than Reno ones. DMH Warrior might stand a chance but the games are really long and exhausting for both players. It is one of the Control archetypes which is still standing and which can actually drag other decks to late game and outvalue/outcontrol them which control decks supposed to do. If I think about it now, they can't be compared honestly. Druid is strong, really strong but his late game is way weaker than any of the Kabal classes. Druid suprasses Reno decks in early and midgame where he might stand a chance and play combo early, but as the game goes longer Kazakus, Heroes, N'Zoth, Dirty Rat and all other Reno stuff is much more powerfull than Druid one
Aviana+Kun are sitting there because of the wide variety of combination that they give. Give it some time and Genn and Baku will be there too because of wider options. I mean there are already different archetypes of Odd Paladins and Even Shamans that are succesfull. Also the current popularity and powerlevel of the Aviana+Kun was increased thanks to Juicy Psychmelon. Almost all Wild veterans in both Hearthpwn and Reddit agree on that. That card is offender. Not 2 interesting legendaries.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
I don't see any reason why Star Aligner is better than Togwaggle, the Star Aligner combo require much more combo pieces and you can't even use Oaken Summons because of all the 3-4 mana combo pieces to thin your deck and battle aggro, Togwaggle only need 4 combo pieces and Juicy Psychmelon draw all of them (it's almost impossible to not get the combo by the time you get to 10 mana).
Togwaggle might be slightly weaker to hand disruption cards but the only classes that even run those cards are warlocks and warriors, and even than they must hit togwaggle or have less than 6 cards for the rest of the game.
Star Aligner is better than Toggwagle because once the combo is played, Aggro have 0 comeback from it. 0. The combo is basically big-statted board + boarclear and some face dmg. Aggro can't come back from that. Yes Oaken Summons hurts to cut but all the other stalls are still here. And other non-important combo pieces like Brewmasters, Brann or Zola/Gloop can dodge opponents Dirty Rat. Thats why Star Aligner is stronger than Toggwaggle.
Juicy Psychmelon is broken. It is so broken that decks are cutting UI because of it. So cut Aviana+Kun out of this
Also your statement about only Warlocks and Warriors running Rat and hitting Togwaggle in order to win is aboslutelly pointless. Every Wild Control deck runs Dirty Rat nowadays and you don't need to hit Togwaggle to win. You can hit any combo piece and the game is over for Druid. Can't say the same thing about Star Aligner Druid. You need to hit and kill immediatelly Aviana and Kun in order to win because all other cards can bounce them back or are sub-parts of Combo pieces.
Such a nostalgic post! #Feels2YearsAgoMan
While we are at it though we should nerf Dr Boom. To much value from 7 mana. I mean 2 boom bots that deal 1-4 damage plus a 7/7 body........ Please look into Dr Boom, Aviana, and Kun please blizz.
As soon as they play Juicy Psychmelon you play either Dirty Rats or Demonic Projects. They are done. You get free win against that deck if you’re play Warlock in wild.
1: I hope we never get to the point of power creep when Aviana+Kun combos are obsolete. The combo is pretty damn nuts, and has a wide variety of uses. You could probably even make a decent C'thun deck around it...
2: Druid pushes a lot of other control an combo decks away from the Wild meta, and makes faster decks which prey on them shine. At some point, I think a changeup is healthy, even in Wild.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
blizzard doesn't care about wild
this
if Blizzard doesn't care about Wild, why were naga sea witch and shadowboxer nerfed in order to help Wild?
Druid pushes other decks away that are not worth being in the meta. Reno decks have significant chance against snything. Im recently playing Dragon Control Arcibishop Priest and I haven't lost a single game agaist Druid yet. It is not like Wild meta is warping around them. Wild meta rn have fair amount of Fast and Mid game decks, Control decks and Combo decks too. The only problematic Aviana+Kun interaction is Star Aligner Druid(Here is my point of view) . Other versions are powerfull but not close to Tier S
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
How many games did you play at which rank?
No, Reno decks are WAY weaker than Aviana/Kun decks.
Also, it is just as much about variety as about power. The top Wild decks atm are Odd rogue and even shaman, both of which do very well vs druids, but Aviana and Kun sit at the very top of the playrates in Wild along with the DK.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Just my share about decks I'm facing around ranks 3-1. All Even Shaman and mostly Star Alligner Druid with some Toggwaggle.
I have to agree with OP. I love otk combo decks but basically if you play any other otk combo in wild but Druid, you might as well just concede against every druid. It's also annoying when people are like "woah a new combo deck" and you get excited but oh look it starts with aviana kun like every single other combo. Makes them all look the same. The thing that makes aviana kun so strong imo is because druid has so so so much card draw and armor gain and stall. And they are actually good cards that you would normally run.
Me? Gongaga.
Only the people who play in the cesspool known as the Wild care. Hence this thread is pointless.
I don't see any reason why Star Aligner is better than Togwaggle, the Star Aligner combo require much more combo pieces and you can't even use Oaken Summons because of all the 3-4 mana combo pieces to thin your deck and battle aggro, Togwaggle only need 4 combo pieces and Juicy Psychmelon draw all of them (it's almost impossible to not get the combo by the time you get to 10 mana).
Togwaggle might be slightly weaker to hand disruption cards but the only classes that even run those cards are warlocks and warriors, and even than they must hit togwaggle or have less than 6 cards for the rest of the game.
Caring fir wild lol like no one plays that mostly bots and people sniping u lol. As for combos hmm dirty rat 🐀 demonic card for warlock I think ur set . To handle any combo decks.
Psychemelon is so stupid
Whyyyyy, Blizzard, whyyyyyyyyyy?!!!
The most played rogue deck is Kingsbane, and it is very different from Odd. I am not sure if there are enough data to make a solid conclusion about the matchup, but in my own experience, I felt good facing druids playing Odd rogue.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The real problem is juicy psychmelon. This card made the combos with druid way too easy to finish. Really stupid card only played by people who don't want to do any effort in life.
Ironically enough, I did exactly this against a druid when I was playing Renolock a couple days ago and I pulled out his Witchwood Piper instead. Your logic is right though, it SHOULD work most of the time. Feels bad when it doesn't, but hey, that's hearthstone.
It's undoubtedly faster, but the overall winrate is slightly biased against Togwaggle (in HSReplay), not only Star Aligner has much more records, but also none of the togwaggle decks is optimized (no naturelize?!, 0 or 1 copies of Juicy psychomelon?!!?!?)
As for consistency, how a deck with 5 - 8 combo pieces can ever be more consistent than a deck with only 4 combo pieces and 2 copies of a card that draw the whole combo for only 4 mana? Togwaggle is weaker against control warlocks but stronger against aggro (less dead card, better anti aggro tools, specially important against shamans and tempo mages).
Me and a friend of mine are like "exclusive" wild players. It's so much fun when you've played the game this long and have a vast knowledge of all the cards printed. That being said, my experience in wild this season on ladder has been heavily overrun by druids (35% of my matches played were against druid, that is absolutely insane), this is about as bad as it was before they nerfed quest rogue because it was dominating standard ladder. That being said, I agree 100% that this card is one of the big reasons that druid is so oppressive right now. They basically printed a four cost card for druid that says "draw your win condition". As long as you know how to build a deck (or copy one online), you can build this card's draw into a win condition like they did with togwaggle/star-aligner, etc. I agree with many other people that said druid cards in general (especially armor gain) are too powerful, coupled with these other cards, it's easy for them to negate damage while basically playing a solo match. In order for a card like Juicy Psychmelon to be a "balanced card" other classes would need to receive a similar card like "draw four cards from your deck of your choosing", in a nutshell, that's what the power level of this card actually is.
I'm consistent rank 5 to Legend player. If you are asking me about that Control Priest, then on ranks 5-3 with winrate above 60% with 28 games. Mostly loses are against Even Shaman and Odd paladin but not Druids or Control decks.
Nope. Reno decks are not weaker than Druids. The abbility to win against anything + good piloting are leading into good results. There is a reason behind why there is no stronger Control decks than Reno ones. DMH Warrior might stand a chance but the games are really long and exhausting for both players. It is one of the Control archetypes which is still standing and which can actually drag other decks to late game and outvalue/outcontrol them which control decks supposed to do. If I think about it now, they can't be compared honestly. Druid is strong, really strong but his late game is way weaker than any of the Kabal classes. Druid suprasses Reno decks in early and midgame where he might stand a chance and play combo early, but as the game goes longer Kazakus, Heroes, N'Zoth, Dirty Rat and all other Reno stuff is much more powerfull than Druid one
Aviana+Kun are sitting there because of the wide variety of combination that they give. Give it some time and Genn and Baku will be there too because of wider options. I mean there are already different archetypes of Odd Paladins and Even Shamans that are succesfull. Also the current popularity and powerlevel of the Aviana+Kun was increased thanks to Juicy Psychmelon. Almost all Wild veterans in both Hearthpwn and Reddit agree on that. That card is offender. Not 2 interesting legendaries.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Star Aligner is better than Toggwagle because once the combo is played, Aggro have 0 comeback from it. 0. The combo is basically big-statted board + boarclear and some face dmg. Aggro can't come back from that. Yes Oaken Summons hurts to cut but all the other stalls are still here. And other non-important combo pieces like Brewmasters, Brann or Zola/Gloop can dodge opponents Dirty Rat. Thats why Star Aligner is stronger than Toggwaggle.
Juicy Psychmelon is broken. It is so broken that decks are cutting UI because of it. So cut Aviana+Kun out of this
Also your statement about only Warlocks and Warriors running Rat and hitting Togwaggle in order to win is aboslutelly pointless. Every Wild Control deck runs Dirty Rat nowadays and you don't need to hit Togwaggle to win. You can hit any combo piece and the game is over for Druid. Can't say the same thing about Star Aligner Druid. You need to hit and kill immediatelly Aviana and Kun in order to win because all other cards can bounce them back or are sub-parts of Combo pieces.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks