Lose too much to this on ladder playing Maly Druid kinda frustrating even with Poison Seeds destroying the treants etc, every big priest I've vsed somehow high rolls Resurrect to get Ragnaros or some other bs back. I feel the matchup should be favoured in Maly Druids way but yea never seen a big priest not have Turn 3-4 Barnes. Frustrating deck to lose against even if you play the best you possibly can. Also possible I'm just incredibly unlucky in Wild :/. Barnes is definitely problematic. The problem I see is it pulling cards like Obsidian Statue and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound giving the deck super high rolls which put the game state in an unwinnable and unenjoyable state which can also make them have an incredibly powerful matchup against Aggro decks making one of their only weaknesses non-existent. To me a fair deck should have a weakness to something but if a big Priest high rolls they have 0 weaknesses can't see why that is considered "healthy" by T5. All that said though I assume T5 is definitely monitoring Wild now especially with the recent Naga Sea Witch nerf.
All these people saying "oh you can counter it by playing so and so class or so and so tech card" you do realize you have to draw said card it was the same with Skulking Geist and Jade Druid if you didn't see it before turns 5-8 autolose anyway Jade Druid can still win with all their battlecry minions as well. Majority of the time you can only afford to tech in 1-2 cards otherwise you just pollute your deck with unwanted draws in other matchups. Tech cards and class changes aren't always going to win you matches against high roll decks.
This thread should definitely be in the salt thread though lol.
I didn't say transform doesn't matter. It matters but not that much. Yes sometimes have transform early in the game and they have bad hand and u manage to build a pressure but when it comes to so much rng it is sad. Those screenshot is fine but i trust more if u give me more solid prooves. 100+ games statistic. Because wins are stuck in our memory and loses we are try to forget.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
The deck is honestly and absolute piece of shit, I hate that type of deck, it does nothing the entire game, just clear after clear after heal after heal and then wins the game on a single turn (Spellstone), you really shouldn't be able to summon an 8-10 mana minion on turn 4-5, if they get Barnes into some form of revival there are very few things you can do, they not only get minions with insane effects that early but then they just have it with full stats. Sadly this is the way Blizzard works now, they only seemed capable of printing dumb cards that just break the rules on the game and shit on one of the essential rules of the games, the mana curve, just check the cards that have been considered problematic in the last 1.5-2 years and like 95% of them are just busted shit that somehow help you cheat the mana curve on a ridiculous fashion.
I didn't say transform doesn't matter. It matters but not that much. Yes sometimes have transform early in the game and they have bad hand and u manage to build a pressure but when it comes to so much rng it is sad. Those screenshot is fine but i trust more if u give me more solid prooves. 100+ games statistic. Because wins are stuck in our memory and loses we are try to forget.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
That make sence, i will trust u (i am not good at Reno Mage). Now we get to the point that experienced Reno Mage player could beat Big Priest.
Here is my question: do u enjoy to fight against Big Priest 30+ minute fatique matches? Or your main satisfaction is a win no matter what deck your opponent plays?
And what about non-so-experienced non-reno-kazakus players? Losing to Big Priest is the most frustrating thing because in general u can do nothing about it. Combo decks? I just add one Dirty Rat to ANY midrangy deck and will have a good chance to win. Other decks? The knowledge of what they have in their deck and adapting my gameplay against it will give me solid advantage. Skill matters.
I am not so bad player (5+ rank every season with homebrews etc., sometimes high Legend if i want to) and IF i want i Will make a deck that will beat Big Priest. But that wont make playing against BP less frustrating. BP make wild player's experience bad. I can name about 10-15 decks which can contest fairly with other decks BUT not Big Priest. So now i have to play only 3-4 decks to counter it? Or autoconsede on second turn against priest when i saw shadow vision (and no quest on turn one)? This is probably the best desicion.
I didn't say transform doesn't matter. It matters but not that much. Yes sometimes have transform early in the game and they have bad hand and u manage to build a pressure but when it comes to so much rng it is sad. Those screenshot is fine but i trust more if u give me more solid prooves. 100+ games statistic. Because wins are stuck in our memory and loses we are try to forget.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
That make sence, i will trust u (i am not good at Reno Mage). Now we get to the point that experienced Reno Mage player could beat Big Priest.
Here is my question: do u enjoy to fight against Big Priest 30+ minute fatique matches? Or your main satisfaction is a win no matter what deck your opponent plays?
If you don't enjoy Fatigue Matches, you probably shouldn't play Reno Mage in the first place.
The matchup is usually decided by how greedy the decks are build. I don't think I've ever beaten Big Priest with Reno Mage, but my Reno Mage is fully anti aggro.
I didn't say transform doesn't matter. It matters but not that much. Yes sometimes have transform early in the game and they have bad hand and u manage to build a pressure but when it comes to so much rng it is sad. Those screenshot is fine but i trust more if u give me more solid prooves. 100+ games statistic. Because wins are stuck in our memory and loses we are try to forget.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
That make sence, i will trust u (i am not good at Reno Mage). Now we get to the point that experienced Reno Mage player could beat Big Priest.
Here is my question: do u enjoy to fight against Big Priest 30+ minute fatique matches? Or your main satisfaction is a win no matter what deck your opponent plays?
And what about non-so-experienced non-reno-kazakus players? Losing to Big Priest is the most frustrating thing because in general u can do nothing about it. Combo decks? I just add one Dirty Rat to ANY midrangy deck and will have a good chance to win. Other decks? The knowledge of what they have in their deck and adapting my gameplay against it will give me solid advantage. Skill matters.
I am not so bad player (5+ rank every season with homebrews etc., sometimes high Legend if i want to) and IF i want i Will make a deck that will beat Big Priest. But that wont make playing against BP less frustrating. BP make wild player's experience bad. I can name about 10-15 decks which can contest fairly with other decks BUT not Big Priest. So now i have to play only 3-4 decks to counter it? Or autoconsede on second turn against priest when i saw shadow vision (and no quest on turn one)? This is probably the best desicion.
I don't mind long match-ups against Big Priest. When playing any control mage deck, including Reno Mage, your games often go to fatigue or close to it anyway. Plus, when talking about the Big Priest match-up in particular the longer a game goes on the less likely the priest is to win because I can start generating massive value with Kazakus plays and just sit on the spells until they drop dangerous threats that haven't died yet and/or start using spellstones.
For less experienced Reno players I just say you have to practice and look at the mistakes you're making. That point I made above about experienced players prioritizing transform targets? I know that because I started off as a Reno noob, so to speak, by making mistakes such as polying anything that came out of Barnes or their spells. It also comes down to mulliganning correctly, such as hard mulliganning for transform effects in the off chance that a dangerous highroll Rag or Y'Sharjj pops out early on. Other things to practice is to refrain from dropping a naked Kazakus without having something like Brann, Zola, the 3/4 that shuffles a copy into your deck, or a combination of 2 or all three. This is to ensure you don't whiff on mass poly and allows you to potentially reload on multiple mass poly spells since you can often afford to be greedy since Big Priests are actually fairly slow in the pressure they dish out (with extreme highroll situations of Barnes into Y'Sharjj into Y'Sharjj/Rag, but that has rarely happened to me).
In the end I feel perceptions about decks like Big Priest, as well as misconstrued perceptions about win rates and match-ups, create this false idea that any deck is supposed to be able to answer any other deck to at least a decent degree. That is not how the game is intended to work, nor do most other card games work that way. Even in different game genres, such as WoW (the game HS was at least thematically based on in terms of flavor) made it so classes had obvious strengths and weaknesses to other classes in pvp and pve environments. You are NOT supposed to be able to maintain 50% and higher winrate against everything. This weirdly comes as a shock to many players when they hear this, and yet they continue to look at decks like Big Priest, Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Pally, Cubelock, Hadronnox Druid, Aviana Kun decks, or smorc shaman and ask for nerfs if a specific type of deck is unfavorably matched against that deck (say less than 50%), even when there are counter decks to those decks.
I didn't say transform doesn't matter. It matters but not that much. Yes sometimes have transform early in the game and they have bad hand and u manage to build a pressure but when it comes to so much rng it is sad. Those screenshot is fine but i trust more if u give me more solid prooves. 100+ games statistic. Because wins are stuck in our memory and loses we are try to forget.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
That make sence, i will trust u (i am not good at Reno Mage). Now we get to the point that experienced Reno Mage player could beat Big Priest.
Here is my question: do u enjoy to fight against Big Priest 30+ minute fatique matches? Or your main satisfaction is a win no matter what deck your opponent plays?
And what about non-so-experienced non-reno-kazakus players? Losing to Big Priest is the most frustrating thing because in general u can do nothing about it. Combo decks? I just add one Dirty Rat to ANY midrangy deck and will have a good chance to win. Other decks? The knowledge of what they have in their deck and adapting my gameplay against it will give me solid advantage. Skill matters.
I am not so bad player (5+ rank every season with homebrews etc., sometimes high Legend if i want to) and IF i want i Will make a deck that will beat Big Priest. But that wont make playing against BP less frustrating. BP make wild player's experience bad. I can name about 10-15 decks which can contest fairly with other decks BUT not Big Priest. So now i have to play only 3-4 decks to counter it? Or autoconsede on second turn against priest when i saw shadow vision (and no quest on turn one)? This is probably the best desicion.
I don't mind long match-ups against Big Priest. When playing any control mage deck, including Reno Mage, your games often go to fatigue or close to it anyway. Plus, when talking about the Big Priest match-up in particular the longer a game goes on the less likely the priest is to win because I can start generating massive value with Kazakus plays and just sit on the spells until they drop dangerous threats that haven't died yet and/or start using spellstones.
For less experienced Reno players I just say you have to practice and look at the mistakes you're making. That point I made above about experienced players prioritizing transform targets? I know that because I started off as a Reno noob, so to speak, by making mistakes such as polying anything that came out of Barnes or their spells. It also comes down to mulliganning correctly, such as hard mulliganning for transform effects in the off chance that a dangerous highroll Rag or Y'Sharjj pops out early on. Other things to practice is to refrain from dropping a naked Kazakus without having something like Brann, Zola, the 3/4 that shuffles a copy into your deck, or a combination of 2 or all three. This is to ensure you don't whiff on mass poly and allows you to potentially reload on multiple mass poly spells since you can often afford to be greedy since Big Priests are actually fairly slow in the pressure they dish out (with extreme highroll situations of Barnes into Y'Sharjj into Y'Sharjj/Rag, but that has rarely happened to me).
In the end I feel perceptions about decks like Big Priest, as well as misconstrued perceptions about win rates and match-ups, create this false idea that any deck is supposed to be able to answer any other deck to at least a decent degree. That is not how the game is intended to work, nor do most other card games work that way. Even in different game genres, such as WoW (the game HS was at least thematically based on in terms of flavor) made it so classes had obvious strengths and weaknesses to other classes in pvp and pve environments. You are NOT supposed to be able to maintain 50% and higher winrate against everything. This weirdly comes as a shock to many players when they hear this, and yet they continue to look at decks like Big Priest, Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Pally, Cubelock, Hadronnox Druid, Aviana Kun decks, or smorc shaman and ask for nerfs if a specific type of deck is unfavorably matched against that deck (say less than 50%), even when there are counter decks to those decks.
I agree with a few other posters on here in that Reno Mage can often be a favourable matchup. I ran a big spells version of it to rank 5 two seasons in a row and big priest was far from the biggest challenge I faced. I actually found Y'Shaarj to be helpful as you could use it to pull all of their big guys and then mass clear them so that their 5/5 summon spell and Barnes become worthless. Obsidian Statues are too low damage to be a real threat since you're not trying to burst anyway. Sure, there were games where I didn't draw what I needed (that's always the case with Reno decks), but I won more than I lost.
Big priest is so stupidly overpowered, it is laughable.
And then they went the extra mile by creating the spellstone, even after this shyt deck already existed. Only reason: Selling Y’Sjaarj/Ysera/LichK. At the time, the former two leggies would seldom see play if not for big P.
Just about selling packs. Doesn’t matter if u give your customers a crappy time because of it, playing against this brutally powerful merde.
I think they should change the resurrect mechanic. It doesn't "revive" anything, it just summons a copy of the minion that's in the graveyard. They should just add a graveyard window where you can see your and your opponent's minions that died and when the minion is revived, it gets removed from the graveyard. That way, if your opponent manages to cheat out a Ragnaros on turn 4 and you kill it, then casting 2 resurrects won't summon 2 Ragnaros.
Unfortunately, they won't implement it because, you know, reasons.
And yes, transform effects are viable. Even nice little raptors are a real thing in wild. Muddying res pools is not only good vs. Big Priest. Kazakus is a heavy played legendary right now. Tossing three raptors in their res pool is deceptively powerful. And even though Taunt Druid is niche in Wild, it does see play and it's a hard counter to Witching Hour. I will concede I was being a bit optimistic when suggesting Tinkmaster Overspark, but I just love that card lol.
Do u play raptor warrior on ladder? In what ranks? What is your good matchups?
Do u play Tinkmaster on ladder? In what decks? In what ranks?
How often did u see hadronox druid on wild ladder? I saw it about 1 time in 100-150 mathes. Yeah, very popular and strong deck.
Reading is not your strong suit is it? Please read my post again. Then read your reply and take a minute to soak it all in. But to answer some of your questions; I play at Legend rank. An there I use a Control Warrior featuring Raptors. I won't go into too much detail as it's a deck I have been tuning over the last couple of months but it has good matchups across the board. Some days it works better than others but that's because in Legend the metagame can fluctuate heavily and suddenly. But you probably wouldn't know that. Hadronox Druid I have seen in maybe 1 in 50 games? Like I said, it's quite niche. But it's played as an alternative Druid Control deck that doesn't roll over and die to Dirty Rat and friends.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
Reading is not your strong suit is it? Please read my post again. Then read your reply and take a minute to soak it all in. But to answer some of your questions; I play at Legend rank. An there I use a Control Warrior featuring Raptors. I won't go into too much detail as it's a deck I have been tuning over the last couple of months but it has good matchups across the board. Some days it works better than others but that's because in Legend the metagame can fluctuate heavily and suddenly. But you probably wouldn't know that. Hadronox Druid I have seen in maybe 1 in 50 games? Like I said, it's quite niche. But it's played as an alternative Druid Control deck that doesn't roll over and die to Dirty Rat and friends.
Read your post. Read my reply. Seems fine, but whatever.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
In fact, you have pointed out the problem. People, do not want to lose because of the RNG. I don't want concede because you have Barnes on turn 4. When I am playing Hearthstone I want fair games and I don't want to see a card that forced me to concede. So, let's nerf it.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
In fact, you have pointed out the problem. People, do not want to lose because of the RNG. I don't want concede because you have Barnes on turn 4. When I am playing Hearthstone I want fair games and I don't want to see a card that forced me to concede. So, let's nerf it.
Well tough luck, I get killed by a top deck Pyroblast and you don't see me cry. I get your point, I really do, but when you play Big Priest and you draw bad, a lot of Control matchups are NOT in your favor. The late game requires basic game knowledge, turn setups and skill just like any other deck. Also, I really don't get why you people hate Barnes so much, the chances that he wins you the game just because you have him on turn 4 are very slim. Don't concede when you see Barnes, because the chances that your opponent pulls Y'Shaarj and has ressurection spells in his hand are even more slim. You make the deck seem way more overpowered than it is, it is powerful, but with many flaws.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
In fact, you have pointed out the problem. People, do not want to lose because of the RNG. I don't want concede because you have Barnes on turn 4. When I am playing Hearthstone I want fair games and I don't want to see a card that forced me to concede. So, let's nerf it.
Well tough luck, I get killed by a top deck Pyroblast and you don't see me cry. I get your point, I really do, but when you play Big Priest and you draw bad, a lot of Control matchups are NOT in your favor. The late game requires basic game knowledge, turn setups and skill just like any other deck. Also, I really don't get why you people hate Barnes so much, the chances that he wins you the game just because you have him on turn 4 are very slim. Don't concede when you see Barnes, because the chances that your opponent pulls Y'Shaarj and has ressurection spells in his hand are even more slim. You make the deck seem way more overpowered than it is, it is powerful, but with many flaws.
It's not even that the deck is that powerful. I have a good win rate against it with a few decks. It's just that it's such a stupid and mindless concept that should never have existed in the first place. Pure gambling bullshit. A meme deck (lets be honest, that's exactly what it is) should never have anything approaching a 50% winrate. Checking my stats here I faced big priest in 30% of games from 5-legend. That's just disgusting.
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Lose too much to this on ladder playing Maly Druid kinda frustrating even with Poison Seeds destroying the treants etc, every big priest I've vsed somehow high rolls Resurrect to get Ragnaros or some other bs back. I feel the matchup should be favoured in Maly Druids way but yea never seen a big priest not have Turn 3-4 Barnes. Frustrating deck to lose against even if you play the best you possibly can. Also possible I'm just incredibly unlucky in Wild :/. Barnes is definitely problematic. The problem I see is it pulling cards like Obsidian Statue and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound giving the deck super high rolls which put the game state in an unwinnable and unenjoyable state which can also make them have an incredibly powerful matchup against Aggro decks making one of their only weaknesses non-existent. To me a fair deck should have a weakness to something but if a big Priest high rolls they have 0 weaknesses can't see why that is considered "healthy" by T5. All that said though I assume T5 is definitely monitoring Wild now especially with the recent Naga Sea Witch nerf.
All these people saying "oh you can counter it by playing so and so class or so and so tech card" you do realize you have to draw said card it was the same with Skulking Geist and Jade Druid if you didn't see it before turns 5-8 autolose anyway Jade Druid can still win with all their battlecry minions as well. Majority of the time you can only afford to tech in 1-2 cards otherwise you just pollute your deck with unwanted draws in other matchups. Tech cards and class changes aren't always going to win you matches against high roll decks.
This thread should definitely be in the salt thread though lol.
That is the thing though. Reno Mage has no burst outside of Kazakus potions and I have almost never lost to Big Priest when laddering up as Reno Mage. I'm being literal when I say that I've won more games during that type of match-up than I've lost. I'm not just focusing on a few games I got lucky on. The match-up is relatively easy (hence why I almost always take the priest to fatigue). It isn't exactly hard when you have more 10 mana potions than they have spellstones.
Transforms also matter in that match-up more than you give credit for imo. I don't care if the priest rezes a bunch of Obsidian Statues. If you transform Rag then that alone cuts out a ton of the bite that they have available to kill you. Good players prioritize which targets they transform, while a less experienced player during that match-up will jump at the chance to transform the very first target they can, and then wonder why they are losing against a board of 2+ Rags.
The deck is honestly and absolute piece of shit, I hate that type of deck, it does nothing the entire game, just clear after clear after heal after heal and then wins the game on a single turn (Spellstone), you really shouldn't be able to summon an 8-10 mana minion on turn 4-5, if they get Barnes into some form of revival there are very few things you can do, they not only get minions with insane effects that early but then they just have it with full stats. Sadly this is the way Blizzard works now, they only seemed capable of printing dumb cards that just break the rules on the game and shit on one of the essential rules of the games, the mana curve, just check the cards that have been considered problematic in the last 1.5-2 years and like 95% of them are just busted shit that somehow help you cheat the mana curve on a ridiculous fashion.
That make sence, i will trust u (i am not good at Reno Mage). Now we get to the point that experienced Reno Mage player could beat Big Priest.
Here is my question:
do u enjoy to fight against Big Priest 30+ minute fatique matches? Or your main satisfaction is a win no matter what deck your opponent plays?
And what about non-so-experienced non-reno-kazakus players? Losing to Big Priest is the most frustrating thing because in general u can do nothing about it.
Combo decks? I just add one Dirty Rat to ANY midrangy deck and will have a good chance to win.
Other decks? The knowledge of what they have in their deck and adapting my gameplay against it will give me solid advantage. Skill matters.
I am not so bad player (5+ rank every season with homebrews etc., sometimes high Legend if i want to) and IF i want i Will make a deck that will beat Big Priest. But that wont make playing against BP less frustrating.
BP make wild player's experience bad. I can name about 10-15 decks which can contest fairly with other decks BUT not Big Priest.
So now i have to play only 3-4 decks to counter it?
Or autoconsede on second turn against priest when i saw shadow vision (and no quest on turn one)? This is probably the best desicion.
If you don't enjoy Fatigue Matches, you probably shouldn't play Reno Mage in the first place.
The matchup is usually decided by how greedy the decks are build. I don't think I've ever beaten Big Priest with Reno Mage, but my Reno Mage is fully anti aggro.
I don't mind long match-ups against Big Priest. When playing any control mage deck, including Reno Mage, your games often go to fatigue or close to it anyway. Plus, when talking about the Big Priest match-up in particular the longer a game goes on the less likely the priest is to win because I can start generating massive value with Kazakus plays and just sit on the spells until they drop dangerous threats that haven't died yet and/or start using spellstones.
For less experienced Reno players I just say you have to practice and look at the mistakes you're making. That point I made above about experienced players prioritizing transform targets? I know that because I started off as a Reno noob, so to speak, by making mistakes such as polying anything that came out of Barnes or their spells. It also comes down to mulliganning correctly, such as hard mulliganning for transform effects in the off chance that a dangerous highroll Rag or Y'Sharjj pops out early on. Other things to practice is to refrain from dropping a naked Kazakus without having something like Brann, Zola, the 3/4 that shuffles a copy into your deck, or a combination of 2 or all three. This is to ensure you don't whiff on mass poly and allows you to potentially reload on multiple mass poly spells since you can often afford to be greedy since Big Priests are actually fairly slow in the pressure they dish out (with extreme highroll situations of Barnes into Y'Sharjj into Y'Sharjj/Rag, but that has rarely happened to me).
In the end I feel perceptions about decks like Big Priest, as well as misconstrued perceptions about win rates and match-ups, create this false idea that any deck is supposed to be able to answer any other deck to at least a decent degree. That is not how the game is intended to work, nor do most other card games work that way. Even in different game genres, such as WoW (the game HS was at least thematically based on in terms of flavor) made it so classes had obvious strengths and weaknesses to other classes in pvp and pve environments. You are NOT supposed to be able to maintain 50% and higher winrate against everything. This weirdly comes as a shock to many players when they hear this, and yet they continue to look at decks like Big Priest, Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Pally, Cubelock, Hadronnox Druid, Aviana Kun decks, or smorc shaman and ask for nerfs if a specific type of deck is unfavorably matched against that deck (say less than 50%), even when there are counter decks to those decks.
I agree with a few other posters on here in that Reno Mage can often be a favourable matchup. I ran a big spells version of it to rank 5 two seasons in a row and big priest was far from the biggest challenge I faced. I actually found Y'Shaarj to be helpful as you could use it to pull all of their big guys and then mass clear them so that their 5/5 summon spell and Barnes become worthless. Obsidian Statues are too low damage to be a real threat since you're not trying to burst anyway. Sure, there were games where I didn't draw what I needed (that's always the case with Reno decks), but I won more than I lost.
Yes please, nerf it.
Big priest is so stupidly overpowered, it is laughable.
And then they went the extra mile by creating the spellstone, even after this shyt deck already existed. Only reason: Selling Y’Sjaarj/Ysera/LichK. At the time, the former two leggies would seldom see play if not for big P.
Just about selling packs. Doesn’t matter if u give your customers a crappy time because of it, playing against this brutally powerful merde.
I think they should change the resurrect mechanic. It doesn't "revive" anything, it just summons a copy of the minion that's in the graveyard. They should just add a graveyard window where you can see your and your opponent's minions that died and when the minion is revived, it gets removed from the graveyard. That way, if your opponent manages to cheat out a Ragnaros on turn 4 and you kill it, then casting 2 resurrects won't summon 2 Ragnaros.
Unfortunately, they won't implement it because, you know, reasons.
Reading is not your strong suit is it? Please read my post again. Then read your reply and take a minute to soak it all in. But to answer some of your questions; I play at Legend rank. An there I use a Control Warrior featuring Raptors. I won't go into too much detail as it's a deck I have been tuning over the last couple of months but it has good matchups across the board. Some days it works better than others but that's because in Legend the metagame can fluctuate heavily and suddenly. But you probably wouldn't know that. Hadronox Druid I have seen in maybe 1 in 50 games? Like I said, it's quite niche. But it's played as an alternative Druid Control deck that doesn't roll over and die to Dirty Rat and friends.
No, it's a fun deck to play and if you get shitty draw, it's a fair game.
As a player who got into Legend for the first time with it about 10 days ago, most of you have no idea what you're talking, which is probably because most of you haven't played it. 70% of the time you wont even draw Barnes, so you rely on removal and hoping to highroll Y'Shaarj with Shadow Essence. Aggro destroys you at least half of the time because of crap drawing, especially Tempo Mage, Kingsbane destroys you, combo decks destroy you, Highlander Mage/Warlock/Priest can mess you up with Polymorph/Kazakus really easily, Genn Shaman was every second matchup for me between rank 1 and 3 and I had about 60% winrate against them (not bad, but far from overpowered) generally my winrate was around 55% and it took me a long time to hit Legend. You guys either play really bad, or play midrange/control decks that absolutely suck against Big Priest. Of course sometime Barnes is going to pull out Y'Shaarj and you instantly lose, opponents did that to me in mirror matches but I wasn't salty because I got unlucky a few times. Unlike Naga giant decks, most of the time with Big Priest you won't be able to do anything game crushing at least until turn 5-6, which in my opinion gives the opponent enough time to think about his plays.
this +!
Didn't you post this before?
You seem upset. What happened?
Read your post. Read my reply. Seems fine, but whatever.
Can you give your warrior decklist?
In fact, you have pointed out the problem. People, do not want to lose because of the RNG. I don't want concede because you have Barnes on turn 4. When I am playing Hearthstone I want fair games and I don't want to see a card that forced me to concede. So, let's nerf it.
Well tough luck, I get killed by a top deck Pyroblast and you don't see me cry. I get your point, I really do, but when you play Big Priest and you draw bad, a lot of Control matchups are NOT in your favor. The late game requires basic game knowledge, turn setups and skill just like any other deck. Also, I really don't get why you people hate Barnes so much, the chances that he wins you the game just because you have him on turn 4 are very slim. Don't concede when you see Barnes, because the chances that your opponent pulls Y'Shaarj and has ressurection spells in his hand are even more slim. You make the deck seem way more overpowered than it is, it is powerful, but with many flaws.
this is fact
It's not even that the deck is that powerful. I have a good win rate against it with a few decks. It's just that it's such a stupid and mindless concept that should never have existed in the first place. Pure gambling bullshit. A meme deck (lets be honest, that's exactly what it is) should never have anything approaching a 50% winrate. Checking my stats here I faced big priest in 30% of games from 5-legend. That's just disgusting.