Given how many face decks exists on wild ladder currently, that is, deck that can kill you before T4 (and easily handle a doomsayer T2), I'm not that sure that Naga witch is the biggest issue on wild ladder now...
If they nerf it, let's hope they'll also fix other cancerous decks that are not fun at all to play against...
Lol, Lyra actually disappeared from wild after razakus nerf. Its eternal format, and ironically, it means that u will NOT be able to play all your fancy cards. BCS they are just plain bad, and getting worse.
Nerfing Giants,probably will not make meta great again, i cant belive that. May be bcs community hopes for meme decks to be viable, but wild slowly become competetive enviroment, giants is not even best deck, and not really wraping format around it solely.
After all, u know how long it took for Wizard to ban miracles?) Blizz is doing ok, format is too young.
Actually, yes it would. You know the Aggro Paladin decks people whine about in Wild? Dude Paladin, Aggro Paladin, Secret Paladin? The only reason you are seeing such high win rates for decks like that is BECAUSE OF the existence of Giantlock and the Giant Package. It's the only deck archetype that can consistently beat it. Other decks that can kick it's ass, especially Dragon Priest (Duskbreaker basically eats Aggro decks alive), are held back because of this package.
So I play off meta stuff, not to the point of meme decks, but to the point I want to go the road less traveled. I should not be punished because of this mindset. I want to play the game the way I want to play it, and not have the same meta netdecks shoved into my face every single time I want to play the game.
I know I won't play every single card, that's for damn sure. I don't want to see a format with over 1300 cards only have 3% of said cards played on a consistent basis. You let a problem card like Naga Sea Witch go unsolved, it warps the format to either aggro or Giantlock.
You think I am the only one that wants this nerf? Even though I have had a poll up since day one letting people vote and state their opinions on why they want this deck nerfed? Is this the only argument that you have?
Well, i dont think that pally dominance is decided by giantslock) Its bcs pally roll over any other aggro and midrange deck, except mb for even shaman. Technically giantslock die to aggroshaman and pirate warrior and such fast aggro decks, but with pally all over the ladder there is no point to play them.
My point is - i want format to be eternal, and not worry about making certain decks just to eat nerf, spending 10+k dust, or more likely making it golden. I pay money to make decks, and i want stable investments. It doesnt mean i m playing warlock giants) Im ok with NSW nerf. Myself got raza nerf, and that was enough for me) Deck where i could play Saraad, Confuse, Paletress, Velen, Shadowspawn and a lot of diferrent cards, then suddenly they become dust, just a lot of dust) So i think that most opressive decks, giants nowhere near razakus lvl of oppressiveness, can become just ok when meta shift whith new sets and sometimes we can just w8 till new sets arrives and new meta settles.
NSW badly needs a nerf. yes. It just feels crap to to play against 40 + stats on turn 5. Sludge belcher turn...y'know. For the effect NSW is atleast a 9 mana card.
I too stopped playing wild because of Naga seawitch Bs. Should be Nerfed, yeah I know that wild should be wild, but some cards just ruin the experience of deck building. They were not thinking when they switched how it works.
The NSW issue is comparable to early Kobolds meta with Patches, Southsea Captains and 0 mana 5/5s - every class can play it.
The reason it should be nerfed is because it's wayy too overpowered for all classes to have access to. It can be argued that nothing is wrong with it because it doesn't have a high win rate, for example it can lose before turn 4/5 if the opponent has a strong early board presence, but the win rate isn't the issue. Hunters can copy NSW or any giants, Shamans have lots of draw for giants, Warlock can just tap their hand full of giants...the play is unanswerable unless you are playing priest and have exactly lightbomb for example.
They nerfed Shudderwock for the same reason - the card itself created an unfavorable gameplay experience. NSW just lets you vomit your way to a ridiculous concede-worthy victory that no one feels good playing against.
* am a wild player.
Also they buffed this card to do this- why not just revert it to its original state.
I had lightbomb in hand, and still losted, because they coin out and don't reach mana requirements lightbomb. That is why it should be Nerfed. When you lose before your even able to play a counter for it. Unless someone can tell me how to deal with a board full of giants on turn 4. It's needs to be fixed.
People saying it's not that good or their are other strong decks in wild, look how those others get or can be countered if targeted, and try to say the same. If you still can't see the common sense in the complaints, you are probably one of the ones playing it.
Not saying you're wrong, but Hunter has Toxic Arrow with Unstable Ghoul and Rogue has a similar combo with Plague Scientist and Unstable Ghoul. Of course no one is going to tech them as they're terrible. I was just thinking of janky ways to counter it. Shaman is boned.
If we're including janky combos, shaman has Elemental Destruction x2. Either with a coin if they're second or without if they're first and the opponent doesn't coin out Naga.
I love the people arguing that it shouldn't be nerfed because they spent a lot of dust on it. Find new decks that use those cards then... The fact of the matter is it's a polarizing deck that has warped the meta. Having played against it plenty of times with a wide variety of decks, I can tell you that it's an auto-lose for many decks. Yes, paladin is stronger but I can tech against paladin with any class. I can't properly tech against giants with the majority of the classes I play which makes it absurdly frustrating. Quest rogue was nerfed for the same reason and I have no doubt that with enough pressure, this will be nerfed too.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a hit to Divine Favor and Call to Arms as well.
Either nerf her to cost 8 mana OR revert the change by changing the card text to: cards cost ALWAYS 5 mana. I think the revert would be the best change, but nerfing her to 8 mana would be good enough too.
The logic behind the coding change was pretty arbitrary. They decided that a card's own aura modifying its cost should applied after a universal aura modifying its cost. They said that that was how auras modifying Attack and Defense worked, so cost-modifying auras should be treated the same way. They said it was "more consistent", and thus easier to understand.
Unfortunately that doesn't make it better game design, since card cost and minion stats have very different implications on the game. It also changes the implicit design philosophy of the card Naga Sea Witch, which was designed for you to cheat out high-cost minions for steep price in flexibility.
I haven't played Wild in forever, someone remind me of the NSW issue, please. Is it because of the Giants decks roaming around Wild?
Naga Sea Witch is the linchpin of those Giant decks, because it's the critical piece to spam out Giants. Your cards cost 5 while Naga Sea Witch is on the field, but back when the Druid cards were nerfed, this was shadowbuffed and never posted as an update. The shadowbuff being that the Giants are now able to be played for less than 5 several turns than they should be normally played, and ALL AT ONCE.
There were three classes that utilized the combo. Giant Hunter with King's Elekk and Stitched Tracker for pseudo-card draw, Druid with it's natural ramp abilities, and Warlock, the biggest offender. The Warlock's Hero Power to draw a card and take two damage each time is the perfect tool to play Naga Sea Witch, Mountain Giant, Molten Giant and Sea Giant (in almost that exact same order each time) on turn 5 (there are versions that use Clockwork Giant as well). Even if you wipe those out, you have the Cube package with multiple Voidlords and the new Glinda Crowskin/Molten Giant Combo that frustrate the hell out of you because you've spent a shitload of removal dealing with the Giantlock board state.
Equally aggravating is Blizzard's milquetoast response towards the degenerate nature of the card and their outright refusal to nerf Naga Sea Witch for eight months now, with the ninth month starting on May 6th. Mike Donais made the inaccurate claim that other cards in the deck needed to be looked at, which is immediately dismissed when you consider that Mountain Giant and Molten Giant were staple cards in Handlock and were never considered unbalanced, whereas Sea Giant is used often in flood/token decks and some variations of Zoolock. Yong Woo's interview with IGN confirms the hand-sitting stance with Naga Sea Witch, where a suggested nerf is tap-danced around in the interview.
That, in layman's terms, is the Naga Sea Witch issue.
The logic behind the coding change was pretty arbitrary. They decided that a card's own aura modifying its cost should applied after a universal aura modifying its cost. They said that that was how auras modifying Attack and Defense worked, so cost-modifying auras should be treated the same way. They said it was "more consistent", and thus easier to understand.
Unfortunately that doesn't make it better game design, since card cost and minion stats have very different implications on the game. It also changes the implicit design philosophy of the card Naga Sea Witch, which was designed for you to cheat out high-cost minions for steep price in flexibility.
Sounds more needlessly complicated, if you ask me.
You interpret a lot in what I say. I don't think you are the only one. I think there are a lot that think the same as you. And i play high rank wild and see most of the time not this overpowered superbustet combo deck. I see aggro paladin.
My opinion is that nerf calls for single cards/decks rarly help to improve anything. The problems I see are old and big and they gets bigger. Every now and then a strong combo deck shines and people shit talk it till its death and then next one is coming. No one talks about the problems of the game itself...
The slow turn from a value game to a tempo/aggro game Hearthstone had is a problem for me.
The standart rotation with more and more powerful cards is a problem. A problem that should be preventet by standart... why even create standart if they create cards that makes Dr. Boom look like a Chillwind Yeti
The more and more childish community that calls on a daily basis for nerfs for anything is a problem for me.
The rank floors that makes compeditiv play on rank 11-9 and 6-4 to a clown fiesta is a problem for me.
The focus on wild is a problem for me. Every time they push wild. Wild gets tamer. More of the same. I can tell you what you will face most on rank 5+ / legend from a website that say that the best deck of this class has a 0.5% higher chance to win... xD
I hate that cards will get nerfed because of feelings not of data. In a meta that follows 0.x% winrate changes...
78% of players agree in the naga nerf and your are not nerfing it Blizzard!!! What are you waiting for? Can not you nerf cards that are in wild? You made a lot of bad needs totally destroying cards. That is a card that need to be destroyed. It is pointless.
By the way. It is 3/4 fucking months that we are asking the Naga’s nerf!!!
Given how many face decks exists on wild ladder currently, that is, deck that can kill you before T4 (and easily handle a doomsayer T2), I'm not that sure that Naga witch is the biggest issue on wild ladder now...
If they nerf it, let's hope they'll also fix other cancerous decks that are not fun at all to play against...
No. I have not gone through a mirror match with Naga Siren... So... No. The card is just fine.
Play Aggro. Stick with Aggro. Go Face. No where else. Win by Turn 5. Control Decks are garbage.
Well, i dont think that pally dominance is decided by giantslock) Its bcs pally roll over any other aggro and midrange deck, except mb for even shaman. Technically giantslock die to aggroshaman and pirate warrior and such fast aggro decks, but with pally all over the ladder there is no point to play them.
My point is - i want format to be eternal, and not worry about making certain decks just to eat nerf, spending 10+k dust, or more likely making it golden. I pay money to make decks, and i want stable investments. It doesnt mean i m playing warlock giants) Im ok with NSW nerf. Myself got raza nerf, and that was enough for me) Deck where i could play Saraad, Confuse, Paletress, Velen, Shadowspawn and a lot of diferrent cards, then suddenly they become dust, just a lot of dust) So i think that most opressive decks, giants nowhere near razakus lvl of oppressiveness, can become just ok when meta shift whith new sets and sometimes we can just w8 till new sets arrives and new meta settles.
NSW badly needs a nerf. yes. It just feels crap to to play against 40 + stats on turn 5. Sludge belcher turn...y'know. For the effect NSW is atleast a 9 mana card.
Oh, I know how to stop their combo! I can play Dirty Rat!
Oh wait, how come that didn't work? Oops.
I haven't played Wild in forever, someone remind me of the NSW issue, please. Is it because of the Giants decks roaming around Wild?
I too stopped playing wild because of Naga seawitch Bs. Should be Nerfed, yeah I know that wild should be wild, but some cards just ruin the experience of deck building. They were not thinking when they switched how it works.
The NSW issue is comparable to early Kobolds meta with Patches, Southsea Captains and 0 mana 5/5s - every class can play it.
The reason it should be nerfed is because it's wayy too overpowered for all classes to have access to. It can be argued that nothing is wrong with it because it doesn't have a high win rate, for example it can lose before turn 4/5 if the opponent has a strong early board presence, but the win rate isn't the issue. Hunters can copy NSW or any giants, Shamans have lots of draw for giants, Warlock can just tap their hand full of giants...the play is unanswerable unless you are playing priest and have exactly lightbomb for example.
They nerfed Shudderwock for the same reason - the card itself created an unfavorable gameplay experience. NSW just lets you vomit your way to a ridiculous concede-worthy victory that no one feels good playing against.
* am a wild player.
Also they buffed this card to do this- why not just revert it to its original state.
I had lightbomb in hand, and still losted, because they coin out and don't reach mana requirements lightbomb. That is why it should be Nerfed. When you lose before your even able to play a counter for it. Unless someone can tell me how to deal with a board full of giants on turn 4. It's needs to be fixed.
People saying it's not that good or their are other strong decks in wild, look how those others get or can be countered if targeted, and try to say the same. If you still can't see the common sense in the complaints, you are probably one of the ones playing it.
I love the people arguing that it shouldn't be nerfed because they spent a lot of dust on it. Find new decks that use those cards then... The fact of the matter is it's a polarizing deck that has warped the meta. Having played against it plenty of times with a wide variety of decks, I can tell you that it's an auto-lose for many decks. Yes, paladin is stronger but I can tech against paladin with any class. I can't properly tech against giants with the majority of the classes I play which makes it absurdly frustrating. Quest rogue was nerfed for the same reason and I have no doubt that with enough pressure, this will be nerfed too.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a hit to Divine Favor and Call to Arms as well.
Either nerf her to cost 8 mana OR revert the change by changing the card text to: cards cost ALWAYS 5 mana. I think the revert would be the best change, but nerfing her to 8 mana would be good enough too.
The logic behind the coding change was pretty arbitrary. They decided that a card's own aura modifying its cost should applied after a universal aura modifying its cost. They said that that was how auras modifying Attack and Defense worked, so cost-modifying auras should be treated the same way. They said it was "more consistent", and thus easier to understand.
Reasoning behind change to Sea Witch
Unfortunately that doesn't make it better game design, since card cost and minion stats have very different implications on the game. It also changes the implicit design philosophy of the card Naga Sea Witch, which was designed for you to cheat out high-cost minions for steep price in flexibility.
You interpret a lot in what I say. I don't think you are the only one. I think there are a lot that think the same as you. And i play high rank wild and see most of the time not this overpowered superbustet combo deck. I see aggro paladin.
My opinion is that nerf calls for single cards/decks rarly help to improve anything. The problems I see are old and big and they gets bigger. Every now and then a strong combo deck shines and people shit talk it till its death and then next one is coming. No one talks about the problems of the game itself...
The slow turn from a value game to a tempo/aggro game Hearthstone had is a problem for me.
The standart rotation with more and more powerful cards is a problem. A problem that should be preventet by standart... why even create standart if they create cards that makes Dr. Boom look like a Chillwind Yeti
The more and more childish community that calls on a daily basis for nerfs for anything is a problem for me.
The rank floors that makes compeditiv play on rank 11-9 and 6-4 to a clown fiesta is a problem for me.
The focus on wild is a problem for me. Every time they push wild. Wild gets tamer. More of the same. I can tell you what you will face most on rank 5+ / legend from a website that say that the best deck of this class has a 0.5% higher chance to win... xD
I hate that cards will get nerfed because of feelings not of data. In a meta that follows 0.x% winrate changes...
78% of players agree in the naga nerf and your are not nerfing it Blizzard!!! What are you waiting for? Can not you nerf cards that are in wild? You made a lot of bad needs totally destroying cards. That is a card that need to be destroyed. It is pointless.
By the way. It is 3/4 fucking months that we are asking the Naga’s nerf!!!
Whoever opposed that nerf in Blizzard should be fired on the spot.
There is no reason not to nerf this metagame warping $^*ù*.