Again, this isn't anything I've got against you personally; it's more a deepfounded issue with the playerbase and lack of rules/limitations within the game.
Don't worry mate, I wasn't taking it personally. Was just genuinely eager to understand your point of view (and of explaining mine).
@Xanius; I suppose I can definitely understand that perspective and why it would be annoying to run into, and I think that's a fair reason to be aggravated. Like I said I'm also the guy who's likely to tell people to suck it up when it comes to meta decks in casual; it might be annoying, but no one is breaking rules and everyone brought their particular deck to that format for a specific reason. Ranks/MMR exist to sort it out (though it might not sort it out spectacularly).
In OP's case it would be because they don't have a huge collection but wanted to see the Wild meta, which is generally what I assume outside of Quest Rogue and Jade Druid. Quest Rogue and Jade Druid I generally just assume are there because the format has so many slow decks in it, which I think is fair (though both are pretty meh overall). Standard's power level is still so low that while the top decks from that format can do alright, they're not even remotely going to be top tier in Wild.
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wild has some really powerful cards from GvG and Naxx, the majority of them being common/rare. if you decide you like the format, the core cards are a really small investment and provide you a lot of fun
there's quite a few players who will hate you for playing all-standard decks in Wild (myself included)
Now you've stirred my curiosity! Why would you and others hate people playing all-standard decks in Wild? Is it a matter of taste, or a psychological thing? Maybe you feel that is contrary to the spirit of the environment, which should be experimenting funky and meme decks?
Or you think standard-ish decks may be too powerful and efficient? Which BTW would be kinda the opposite of what I was afraid of :D
but if you're only doing it to test it out that's fine.
Well, firstly I'll be doing it to test it out, yes. Then, if I enjoy the format and keep playing it, it would be out of necessity, sorry about that. At least, until my collection grows enough to allow me the luxury of being more creative.
its more the issue of lots of people grabbing the top deck for a class off this site and playing wild ladder without changing out a single card. its more just the brainlessness of it that triggers people, myself included. some decks require more wild cards than others, but decks like my midrange paladin use 16-17 wild only cards (depends on my techs) so i feel like I am taking huge advantage of the format. Every deck can be improved by adding like 4-6 wild only cards, with maybe the exception of hunter
there's quite a few players who will hate you for playing all-standard decks in Wild (myself included)
Now you've stirred my curiosity! Why would you and others hate people playing all-standard decks in Wild? Is it a matter of taste, or a psychological thing? Maybe you feel that is contrary to the spirit of the environment, which should be experimenting funky and meme decks?
Or you think standard-ish decks may be too powerful and efficient? Which BTW would be kinda the opposite of what I was afraid of :D
but if you're only doing it to test it out that's fine.
Well, firstly I'll be doing it to test it out, yes. Then, if I enjoy the format and keep playing it, it would be out of necessity, sorry about that. At least, until my collection grows enough to allow me the luxury of being more creative.
its more the issue of lots of people grabbing the top deck for a class off this site and playing wild ladder without changing out a single card. its more just the brainlessness of it that triggers people, myself included. [...]
Every deck can be improved by adding like 4-6 wild only cards, with maybe the exception of hunter
Don't know about other people, but in my case brainlessy deck copying is out of the question. For the simple reason that, if I check the "Only show decks I can create" box, atm I get one of these results:
nothing,
fully basic and free decks (à la level 10 heroes),
poor excuses for a deck, made by people more desperate than me, typically with a rating of 0 or below.
I do look at meta decks, but always have to change at least a couple cards I don't own. Not lamenting this, actually taking some satisfaction or even pride in it, anyway that's how it is.
About your last point (exception of hunter), you mean hunter needs less than 4-6 wild cards to improve, or more? Thanks!
@swen_245; fair enough, I haven't kept up much with competitive Wild for the most part but I had heard Quest Rogue was seeing some adjustment. Brann is decent in Jade Druid, but it's not as big of a deal as it was in Shaman for the most part (though I don't doubt you'd still run it in Druid).
Either way to address OP's point, by all means it seems like a solid idea to test the waters before crafting anything for Wild specifically. Higher up might be punishing to Standard builds, but lower in the ranks I don't believe there are too many issues.
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there's quite a few players who will hate you for playing all-standard decks in Wild (myself included)
Now you've stirred my curiosity! Why would you and others hate people playing all-standard decks in Wild? Is it a matter of taste, or a psychological thing? Maybe you feel that is contrary to the spirit of the environment, which should be experimenting funky and meme decks?
Or you think standard-ish decks may be too powerful and efficient? Which BTW would be kinda the opposite of what I was afraid of :D
but if you're only doing it to test it out that's fine.
Well, firstly I'll be doing it to test it out, yes. Then, if I enjoy the format and keep playing it, it would be out of necessity, sorry about that. At least, until my collection grows enough to allow me the luxury of being more creative.
its more the issue of lots of people grabbing the top deck for a class off this site and playing wild ladder without changing out a single card. its more just the brainlessness of it that triggers people, myself included. [...]
Every deck can be improved by adding like 4-6 wild only cards, with maybe the exception of hunter
Don't know about other people, but in my case brainlessy deck copying is out of the question. For the simple reason that, if I check the "Only show decks I can create" box, atm I get one of these results:
nothing,
fully basic and free decks (à la level 10 heroes),
poor excuses for a deck, made by people more desperate than me, typically with a vote of 0 or below.
I do look at meta decks, but always have to change at least a couple cards I don't own. Not lamenting this, actually taking some satisfaction or even pride in it, anyway that's how it is.
About your last point (exception of hunter), you mean hunter needs less than 4-6 wild cards to improve, or more? Thanks!
hunter generally runs less. haunted creeper is the main wild card in most decks. some run belcher, king's elekk, drake and webspinner. face hunter uses glaivezooka or desert camel (though thats usually if they run injured kvaldir) or mad scientist. shredder is very rare, though some decks, mostly nzoth, run it.
Either way to address OP's point, by all means it seems like a solid idea to test the waters before crafting anything for Wild specifically. Higher up might be punishing to Standard builds, but lower in the ranks I don't believe there are too many issues.
Yup, and experiment has begun already (if just barely). Won a couple games with my "serious" decks, lost another couple with silly decks I just wanted to have a laugh with, and <ta-daa> even managed to win a game with one of those silly decks! TBH this last one was the most satisfying of them all.
To evaluate properly the format experience ofc I'll need to play more, but so far so good. Only thing is this "play more wild" will require some time, since I still consider standard my main format, and can't neglect that.
Unless the experiment goes so well that I'll have to change my mind ;)
By similar situation I meant that I lack cards from GvG and Naxx and most of TGT. I probably have a bigger collection than yours.
So my favorite wild card is Reno and I mostly play Reno Priest or Mage (both custom made decks). For Mage I crafted cards like Duplicate and Belcher. For Preist I crafted Velen's chosen. If you analyze why I crafted these cards- it has to do with value. All these give insane value and are OP for their cost. I could obviously run lists without them using only standard cards and Reno itself but I'll be missing out on value. Cards like Dr.Boom are another example of insane value for the mana cost. But I haven't made a big commitment like crafting a Legendary yet. I too am exploring wild. Have been having fun with Burgle Rogue and Malygos Shaman too! My winrate is approx 70% I guess with Reno decks (not that I keep track of them, but I do rank up fast). I almost never play aggro and always try and fun decks like a Hemet Nozdormu wankfest deck :P
About your last point (exception of hunter), you mean hunter needs less than 4-6 wild cards to improve, or more? Thanks!
hunter generally runs less. haunted creeper is the main wild card in most decks. some run belcher, king's elekk, drake and webspinner. face hunter uses glaivezooka or desert camel (though thats usually if they run injured kvaldir) or mad scientist. shredder is very rare, though some decks, mostly nzoth, run it.
Thanks again for the info, much appreciated as hunter is the class I play most, at the moment.
So my favorite wild card is Reno and I mostly play Reno Priest or Mage (both custom made decks). For Mage I crafted cards like Duplicate and Belcher. For Preist I crafted Velen's chosen. If you analyze why I crafted these cards- it has to do with value. All these give insane value and are OP for their cost. I could obviously run lists without them using only standard cards and Reno itself but I'll be missing out on value. Cards like Dr.Boom are another example of insane value for the mana cost. But I haven't made a big commitment like crafting a Legendary yet. I too am exploring wild. Have been having fun with Burgle Rogue and Malygos Shaman too! My winrate is approx 70% I guess with Reno decks (not that I keep track of them, but I do rank up fast).
Looks like this approach is working well for you, congrats!
Also, your experience is consistent with what others have advised in this thread. Recapping a bit, that would be:
Standard decks can be played in wild with reasonable success, at least up to some mid-rank position, possibily even r5
Even if not generally required, adding some wild-only cards can improve the strength of a (formerly) standard deck quite a bit. This would be necessary if goal is to climb to the best ranks
In several (most?) cases those wild-only cards need not be many: typical numbers range from 2 to 6
Depending on classes/archetypes, such great value cards can often be just commons or rares. Only for some sort of decks you would need wild legendaries.
The number of cards vary heavily on the type of deck you're playing but because there are 4 unplayable sets in Wild the high-end decks (ramp, reno, control) usually run a lot more. It's not that you can't get away with not doing so, it's just easier to make the synergy work because of the options available.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Err, sets that aren't playable in Standard. Sorry, should've specified but I was posting from my phone.
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Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
About your last point (exception of hunter), you mean hunter needs less than 4-6 wild cards to improve, or more? Thanks!
hunter generally runs less. haunted creeper is the main wild card in most decks. some run belcher, king's elekk, drake and webspinner. face hunter uses glaivezooka or desert camel (though thats usually if they run injured kvaldir) or mad scientist. shredder is very rare, though some decks, mostly nzoth, run it.
Thanks again for the info, much appreciated as hunter is the class I play most, at the moment.
Yes, azure for sure. It's rare to see it in hunter, but it does pop up every now and then to help deal with hunters lack of card draw. Belcher used to be a lot more common, but nesting roc is really good and can be a quality replacement since it also has the beast tag.
Yes mate, you are spot on with your observations. Standard decks can definitely take you to ranks 5 since they often have synergy within the decks which is far more vital than standalone value cards.
Take the example of Belcher vs a Hunter while you're are Mage having duplicate played. That Hunter gonna be pissed trying to remove so many taunts.
Adding wild only cards generally improves quality of the decks, that is true.
Take the example of a few cards here. You want that haunted creeper to have sticky minions on board. You want that turn 5 Loatheb to screw the opponent's turn. You want that 5 mana draw a card and stick a 4/4 on board (which priest can never deal with coz lol it's a dragon with 4 attack). You want that 6 mana Mind Control and a 5/5 body in Sylvanas. You want Dr.7 for trade value instead of Ravenholdt assasin. And everyone wants Rag. Best turn 8 play, instant value.
Apart from these, a wider collection means you can play wacky decks like OTK priest with Umbra and Baron, Mech Mage (not really wacky but a good tempo deck), etc.
And then obviously you can play Freeze Mage with Ice Lance, Miracle Rogue with Conceal and Renolock with Leeroy Combo. The most recent rotated set. Wild is where you can do what you want and you are given multiple options to make it happen (generally speaking). Hope you have fun :)
WOW! Just... wow. Playing with my best (standard) deck, went 10-0 in wild ladder, and counting. Granted, we're still talking beginner ranks, but never before had such a win streak, in any mode or format. I almost couldn't believe it, but I'm already in a better position in wild than in standard.
At best ranks the average power level of wild may be higher than standard, like some of you said, but at lower ranks the reverse seems to be true.
i've gotten my butt handed by standard murloc paladins in Wild, also Wild token Druid is kind of the same deck with not too many expensive wild additions,i think Dragon Egg, Haunted Creeper and Jeeves are the only ones
i've gotten my butt handed by standard murloc paladins in Wild, also Wild token Druid is kind of the same deck with not too many expensive wild additions,i think Dragon Egg, Haunted Creeper and Jeeves are the only ones
echoing ooze and living roots are a big part. finley is quite good too
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@Xanius; I suppose I can definitely understand that perspective and why it would be annoying to run into, and I think that's a fair reason to be aggravated. Like I said I'm also the guy who's likely to tell people to suck it up when it comes to meta decks in casual; it might be annoying, but no one is breaking rules and everyone brought their particular deck to that format for a specific reason. Ranks/MMR exist to sort it out (though it might not sort it out spectacularly).
In OP's case it would be because they don't have a huge collection but wanted to see the Wild meta, which is generally what I assume outside of Quest Rogue and Jade Druid. Quest Rogue and Jade Druid I generally just assume are there because the format has so many slow decks in it, which I think is fair (though both are pretty meh overall). Standard's power level is still so low that while the top decks from that format can do alright, they're not even remotely going to be top tier in Wild.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
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Who's the Beatdown?
wild has some really powerful cards from GvG and Naxx, the majority of them being common/rare. if you decide you like the format, the core cards are a really small investment and provide you a lot of fun
I do look at meta decks, but always have to change at least a couple cards I don't own. Not lamenting this, actually taking some satisfaction or even pride in it, anyway that's how it is.
About your last point (exception of hunter), you mean hunter needs less than 4-6 wild cards to improve, or more? Thanks!
@swen_245; fair enough, I haven't kept up much with competitive Wild for the most part but I had heard Quest Rogue was seeing some adjustment. Brann is decent in Jade Druid, but it's not as big of a deal as it was in Shaman for the most part (though I don't doubt you'd still run it in Druid).
Either way to address OP's point, by all means it seems like a solid idea to test the waters before crafting anything for Wild specifically. Higher up might be punishing to Standard builds, but lower in the ranks I don't believe there are too many issues.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
By similar situation I meant that I lack cards from GvG and Naxx and most of TGT. I probably have a bigger collection than yours.
So my favorite wild card is Reno and I mostly play Reno Priest or Mage (both custom made decks). For Mage I crafted cards like Duplicate and Belcher. For Preist I crafted Velen's chosen. If you analyze why I crafted these cards- it has to do with value. All these give insane value and are OP for their cost. I could obviously run lists without them using only standard cards and Reno itself but I'll be missing out on value. Cards like Dr.Boom are another example of insane value for the mana cost. But I haven't made a big commitment like crafting a Legendary yet. I too am exploring wild. Have been having fun with Burgle Rogue and Malygos Shaman too! My winrate is approx 70% I guess with Reno decks (not that I keep track of them, but I do rank up fast). I almost never play aggro and always try and fun decks like a Hemet Nozdormu wankfest deck :P
That correct, or am I missing something?
The number of cards vary heavily on the type of deck you're playing but because there are 4 unplayable sets in Wild the high-end decks (ramp, reno, control) usually run a lot more. It's not that you can't get away with not doing so, it's just easier to make the synergy work because of the options available.
Other than that, yeah, you got it.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Err, sets that aren't playable in Standard. Sorry, should've specified but I was posting from my phone.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Yes mate, you are spot on with your observations. Standard decks can definitely take you to ranks 5 since they often have synergy within the decks which is far more vital than standalone value cards.
Take the example of Belcher vs a Hunter while you're are Mage having duplicate played. That Hunter gonna be pissed trying to remove so many taunts.
Adding wild only cards generally improves quality of the decks, that is true.
Take the example of a few cards here. You want that haunted creeper to have sticky minions on board. You want that turn 5 Loatheb to screw the opponent's turn. You want that 5 mana draw a card and stick a 4/4 on board (which priest can never deal with coz lol it's a dragon with 4 attack). You want that 6 mana Mind Control and a 5/5 body in Sylvanas. You want Dr.7 for trade value instead of Ravenholdt assasin. And everyone wants Rag. Best turn 8 play, instant value.
Apart from these, a wider collection means you can play wacky decks like OTK priest with Umbra and Baron, Mech Mage (not really wacky but a good tempo deck), etc.
And then obviously you can play Freeze Mage with Ice Lance, Miracle Rogue with Conceal and Renolock with Leeroy Combo. The most recent rotated set. Wild is where you can do what you want and you are given multiple options to make it happen (generally speaking). Hope you have fun :)
WOW! Just... wow. Playing with my best (standard) deck, went 10-0 in wild ladder, and counting. Granted, we're still talking beginner ranks, but never before had such a win streak, in any mode or format. I almost couldn't believe it, but I'm already in a better position in wild than in standard.
At best ranks the average power level of wild may be higher than standard, like some of you said, but at lower ranks the reverse seems to be true.
i've gotten my butt handed by standard murloc paladins in Wild, also Wild token Druid is kind of the same deck with not too many expensive wild additions,i think Dragon Egg, Haunted Creeper and Jeeves are the only ones