We've been playing HS for a long time now, tons of people have been talking about this, and virtually nothing has been done to fix a plain and undisputed fact: Mages are OP in Arena. And it absolutely boggles my mind Blizzard has not fixed this, especially since it's incredible easy to do so.
All of the good, game-changing Mage cards in Arena are basic. That means you have to assume EVERYTIME that a Frostbolt, Fireball, Sheep or Flamestrike are coming your way. Given the randomness of drafts across the board, this is an obvious major advantage. Combine that with the hero ability, and this is not a fair match at any point.
Of course, you still have to play the match to the best of your ability. And like any other deck/class in Arena, if you don't draw into your good cards and make good trades, you'll most likely going to lose. But when you're facing a Mage, you know your opponent is much more likely to have a good answer on his hand thanks to the shier nature of Mage cards and the fact they are basic. There's no other class that even compares to this. You play a big creature, the Mage has two 4-mana cost spells that neutralizes it completely. You play a bunch of minions, the Mage has a card that wipes the board more often than not.
Like Kripp (among others) I don't play Mage in arena. I like good, balanced matches. When you are a Mage or you face one, it's not a fair match at all.
Just change the rarity of cards. It's not rocket science. The first expansion for HS is still a long time away. Meanwhile, everyone know you have a default disadvantage when you play against a Mage in Arena.
I don't see them as a huge problem. They are a strong class of course, but so are Paladin's and Druids. Some people have big issues with Hunters. There are all kinds in the arena.
I guess the reason I'm not super concerned with mages is because spells aren't the worst thing in the world. They're one time damage. I'd be much happier keeping a minion alive for a few turns than I would be with a fireball.
Today I try to run a mage in arena: I get only one miserable polymorph. No fireballs, no blizzards, no flamestrikes. One polymorph is all I got. The result is obvious: 1 - 3 =(
I have gone 12-2 with No Fireballs, No Flamestrikes, No Blizzards, no Frostbolts and No Arcane Missles. I had 3 Polymorph and 3 Water Elementals and a good curve.
Mages and Pallies are by far the best...but I have been successful with each class 10+ win wise. My favorite to play is priest though.
I agree that getting flame struck over and over is rough, but that is kinda the flavor of the arena. I've had aldor peacekeeper after peacekeeper drop down to neutralize my 5,6 and 7 drops. I think that if changing the rarity of flamestrike wouldn't affect constructed for new players then it would be a smart move. It is way easier to not over commit with a constructed deck because you probably have enough late game finishers but in the arena the 2,3 and 4 drops are important and can lead to massive card disadvantage.
It's funny that so many say they never get flame strikes or fireballs or poly or Pyroblast when they select Mage, yet that's the very cards that kill me every time I face them.
Mage is obviously very strong in arena but, as others have already pointed out, you can play around cards like Flamestrike most of the time. There are times where this is not possible, e.g. I played against a Mage who had 4 Flamestrikes yesterday. However, this won't happen on a regular basis.
I can understand your frustration and I find it extremely annoying to be matched up against Mages (or Pallys) most of the time but they are not unfair. Of course, there's the occasional OP deck that will just steamroll anything in it's wake, just don't get discouraged when facing one of these.
For me, mage is forced pick over any other hero, and can do excelent even without flame strike and pyroblast. The hero power synergy with enrage minion, trades, face dmg, too good for draft
I find hunter to be much more consistently good when compared to the mage in the arena. While the mage might have stronger normal cards they are also higher in their average mana cost with many overlapping at 4. Flamestrike is great but it is also a 7 cost move so if you have multiple in your deck then you have that much of your deck being dead until turn 7 or 6 with a coin. Fireball and polymorph are both also cards you want as many of as you can get. These high cost but high value cards can throw off your curve depending on how many you get and when you get them during the draft.
Currently I have 425 arena wins and one thing I've come to believe is that the person who can make high value plays during turns 1-4 usually wins as long as you play smart (ie not filling the board against a mage on turn 6 or 5 if he has the coin). Its usually when you have to pass a turn or leave unused mana crystals early on that you lose control of the game.
When I'm drafting for the hunter I always end up with a lot of beasts and a curve that is very heavy on the 1s,2s,3s because a lot of the hunter's normal cards that synergize extremely well are also low cost: Timberwolves help fill the 1 cost cards because they synergize so well with unleash the hounds and Starving buzzard while also having a second tier synergy with other beasts, Scavenging hyena and Kill command. Unleash the hounds is your best card because it has first tier synergies with Scavenging Hyena, Starving buzzard, and Timberwolves. Since it is best used later in the game and in combination with other cards on the same turn, and because it can be a bad card if they don't have a lot of minions you probably only want 2-3 of this card. Animal companion, Houndmaster, and Savannah Highmane also have second tier syngergy with many cards. Kill command, Deadly shot, and Multishot are also extremely strong turn 3 and 4 plays to wipe their board after your strong early start or removal later on to take out a taunter and finish a game out. Hunter traps also offer high value at a low cost. While rare to get, King Krush and Gladiator Long bow are both great additions because they give you close out potential.
The rush mentality of this deck also synergizes with the hunter's otherwise wasted hero power. The constructed hunter rush decks aren't much different than what you are trying to draft.
Because you will be mostly filling the deck with beasts you will almost always wind up with a decent deck even if you didn't get to draft any one specific card because they all go well together.
TLDR; While Mages have the potential to draft the best decks, because of the curve their good cards create they are harder to end up with a great curve which is most essential to winning. I find Hunters are able to more consistently draft high winning decks.
Because the game is totally balanced around arena amirite?
Also playing mage in arena is all about the right drafts. If you don't get a lot of the important spells you need then you're fucked because the class sucks at competing in minion wars.
Also playing mage in arena is all about the right drafts. If you don't get a lot of the important spells you need then you're fucked because the class sucks at competing in minion wars.
My experience doesn't agree. I don't feel behind as a Mage without "the right draft' any more than any other class. In fact, I usually feel more comfortable as Mage missing Fireball than I do as a Paladin missing Truesilver Champion or Consecration.
Could you elaborate why you think Mage is at a disadvantage competing in minion wars? Due to their hero power, I would argue they are one of the strongest at getting value for their cards. Only Rogue and Druid can make the same claim, and they do so at a health cost.
Hero Power that effects the board, and is both consequence-free (don't take damage) & prerequisite-free (don't need a minion on the board).*
Water Elemental
Best soft & hard removal in the game.
Sure if you get a bad draft you lose, but that's a given for every class.
Mage's advantage is in the abundance of the important cards you want to be drafting; there are both more of them, and they're more common. Consequently you're far less likely to get a terrible Mage draft as you are to get a terrible Hunter draft.
*The only other classes that can claim to have a consequence-free & prerequisite-free hero power are Paladin & Shaman.... coincidentally the other two reliably strong Arena classes.
Also playing mage in arena is all about the right drafts. If you don't get a lot of the important spells you need then you're fucked because the class sucks at competing in minion wars.
My experience doesn't agree. I don't feel behind as a Mage without "the right draft' any more than any other class. In fact, I usually feel more comfortable as Mage missing Fireball than I do as a Paladin missing Truesilver Champion or Consecration.
Could you elaborate why you think Mage is at a disadvantage competing in minion wars? Due to their hero power, I would argue they are one of the strongest at getting value for their cards. Only Rogue and Druid can make the same claim, and they do so at a health cost.
Pally's hero power is more useful than mage's in arena because it puts out board presence and who ever establishes board presence in arena during the first 3-4 turns pretty much just snowballs and wins. Which is why Pally is still one of the most consistent classes in the arena.
The only good mage minion is the water elemental and it is used for control purposes. It shines when you continue to keep it on the board by using your spells. But when you don't have said spells, it's completely outclassed by stuff like fire elemental because it delays but it doesn't do enough damage to kill.
Pally's hero power is more useful than mage's in arena because it puts out board presence and who ever establishes board presence in arena during the first 3-4 turns pretty much just snowballs and wins. Which is why Pally is still one of the most consistent classes in the arena.
The only good mage minion is the water elemental and it is used for control purposes. It shines when you continue to keep it on the board by using your spells. But when you don't have said spells, it's completely outclassed by stuff like fire elemental because it delays but it doesn't do enough damage to kill.
True, Paladin and Shaman's power is unique in that it creates board presence. However, removal of board presence is also a very important aspect in Arena since the entire 4-5 turns is a tug of war of who will control the field (and, usually, the pace of the game as a result). I see that you were limiting your point to class-specific minions, but I wouldn't limit myself in that manner. Neutral minions will compose the majority of any classes draft, so I don't think it's useful (besides being an interesting academic debate) to argue the virtues of, say, a Fire Elemental vs Water Elemental or Argent Protector vs Defias Ringleader. Its those minions incorporation besides that are going to be important.
It's important to consider the synergy of minions like Water Elemental in a Mage's hands. Due to their hero power, basically one minion on the field will always be +1/+0 at a two mana cost. This allows minions like the Water Elemental or Oasis Snapjaw to be more dangerous removal than they at first appear due to their staying power. Mage sacrifices momentum to do it, though, which is why using their hero power early (or without your own board presence) is usually bad.
I think the thing that many of you who think mages aren't that good are forgetting is the mage hero power synergizes with SO MANY normal cards. Gurubashi bersker, amani berserker, raging worgen. On top of that, it completely nullifies any divine shield, making an opponent's sunwalker basically a 4/6, for example.
Arena is all about how your class does with all those kind of average-ish minion cards. when a 2 mana card with a ping can take out your chillwind yeti (5/2 amani berserker), that is a huuuuge board control advantage.
I've seen this from both sides - playing as a mage, playing against a mage. The hero ability plus the common class spells are without a doubt the best at synergizing with all the crappy/average cards you have to draft in an arena deck. Anyone who doesn't see that is either not playing mage right, or is playing crappy mages who don't know how to optimize for arena.
Mage is the only class i've gotten 12 wins on, and it consistently gets 7+ wins almost automatically.
Just went 12-2 with this deck. 2 losses were against a shaman and a paladin that were able to rush me down. There was like two other close battles (one rogue, one mage), otherwise I pretty much facerolled everyone. I mean, there's a freakin river crocolisk in there for cripes' sake. Yes I did get good spell cards, but my first 12 win run featured zero flamestrikes and only one fireball, but in that deck I had a ton of enrages, as well as water elementals.
Bottom line: Mage is the class that is protected from the weakest drafts, since they have almost no bad class cards, and their hero power synergizes both amazing with average cards, and against other players' average cards.
It's a bit slow for arena. I would take a harvest golem over that any day.
Not on a mage. Card advantage is still a good thing in arena, specially when you mostly draft low mana cost cards. He basically becomes a "pay 2 mana, draw a card" ability. It is very good when you need to thin out your deck.
Of course, if you've picked up arcane intellects or other draw engines, it loses value.
Yes, this is another one of those threads.
We've been playing HS for a long time now, tons of people have been talking about this, and virtually nothing has been done to fix a plain and undisputed fact: Mages are OP in Arena. And it absolutely boggles my mind Blizzard has not fixed this, especially since it's incredible easy to do so.
All of the good, game-changing Mage cards in Arena are basic. That means you have to assume EVERYTIME that a Frostbolt, Fireball, Sheep or Flamestrike are coming your way. Given the randomness of drafts across the board, this is an obvious major advantage. Combine that with the hero ability, and this is not a fair match at any point.
Of course, you still have to play the match to the best of your ability. And like any other deck/class in Arena, if you don't draw into your good cards and make good trades, you'll most likely going to lose. But when you're facing a Mage, you know your opponent is much more likely to have a good answer on his hand thanks to the shier nature of Mage cards and the fact they are basic. There's no other class that even compares to this. You play a big creature, the Mage has two 4-mana cost spells that neutralizes it completely. You play a bunch of minions, the Mage has a card that wipes the board more often than not.
Like Kripp (among others) I don't play Mage in arena. I like good, balanced matches. When you are a Mage or you face one, it's not a fair match at all.
Just change the rarity of cards. It's not rocket science. The first expansion for HS is still a long time away. Meanwhile, everyone know you have a default disadvantage when you play against a Mage in Arena.
I don't see them as a huge problem. They are a strong class of course, but so are Paladin's and Druids. Some people have big issues with Hunters. There are all kinds in the arena.
I guess the reason I'm not super concerned with mages is because spells aren't the worst thing in the world. They're one time damage. I'd be much happier keeping a minion alive for a few turns than I would be with a fireball.
That's ok for arena but pretty brutal for constructed. New players would have a pretty tough time playing mage without much aoe.
Today I try to run a mage in arena: I get only one miserable polymorph. No fireballs, no blizzards, no flamestrikes. One polymorph is all I got. The result is obvious: 1 - 3 =(
xapi#2543
I have gone 12-2 with No Fireballs, No Flamestrikes, No Blizzards, no Frostbolts and No Arcane Missles. I had 3 Polymorph and 3 Water Elementals and a good curve.
Mages and Pallies are by far the best...but I have been successful with each class 10+ win wise. My favorite to play is priest though.
I agree that getting flame struck over and over is rough, but that is kinda the flavor of the arena. I've had aldor peacekeeper after peacekeeper drop down to neutralize my 5,6 and 7 drops. I think that if changing the rarity of flamestrike wouldn't affect constructed for new players then it would be a smart move. It is way easier to not over commit with a constructed deck because you probably have enough late game finishers but in the arena the 2,3 and 4 drops are important and can lead to massive card disadvantage.
It's funny that so many say they never get flame strikes or fireballs or poly or Pyroblast when they select Mage, yet that's the very cards that kill me every time I face them.
Mage is obviously very strong in arena but, as others have already pointed out, you can play around cards like Flamestrike most of the time.
There are times where this is not possible, e.g. I played against a Mage who had 4 Flamestrikes yesterday. However, this won't happen on a regular basis.
I can understand your frustration and I find it extremely annoying to be matched up against Mages (or Pallys) most of the time but they are not unfair. Of course, there's the occasional OP deck that will just steamroll anything in it's wake, just don't get discouraged when facing one of these.
For me, mage is forced pick over any other hero, and can do excelent even without flame strike and pyroblast. The hero power synergy with enrage minion, trades, face dmg, too good for draft
I tried prioritizing mage for ~2 weeks, and no longer play it again.
Just feels too RNG for me ~_~
I find hunter to be much more consistently good when compared to the mage in the arena. While the mage might have stronger normal cards they are also higher in their average mana cost with many overlapping at 4. Flamestrike is great but it is also a 7 cost move so if you have multiple in your deck then you have that much of your deck being dead until turn 7 or 6 with a coin. Fireball and polymorph are both also cards you want as many of as you can get. These high cost but high value cards can throw off your curve depending on how many you get and when you get them during the draft.
Currently I have 425 arena wins and one thing I've come to believe is that the person who can make high value plays during turns 1-4 usually wins as long as you play smart (ie not filling the board against a mage on turn 6 or 5 if he has the coin). Its usually when you have to pass a turn or leave unused mana crystals early on that you lose control of the game.
When I'm drafting for the hunter I always end up with a lot of beasts and a curve that is very heavy on the 1s,2s,3s because a lot of the hunter's normal cards that synergize extremely well are also low cost: Timberwolves help fill the 1 cost cards because they synergize so well with unleash the hounds and Starving buzzard while also having a second tier synergy with other beasts, Scavenging hyena and Kill command. Unleash the hounds is your best card because it has first tier synergies with Scavenging Hyena, Starving buzzard, and Timberwolves. Since it is best used later in the game and in combination with other cards on the same turn, and because it can be a bad card if they don't have a lot of minions you probably only want 2-3 of this card. Animal companion, Houndmaster, and Savannah Highmane also have second tier syngergy with many cards. Kill command, Deadly shot, and Multishot are also extremely strong turn 3 and 4 plays to wipe their board after your strong early start or removal later on to take out a taunter and finish a game out. Hunter traps also offer high value at a low cost. While rare to get, King Krush and Gladiator Long bow are both great additions because they give you close out potential.
The rush mentality of this deck also synergizes with the hunter's otherwise wasted hero power. The constructed hunter rush decks aren't much different than what you are trying to draft.
Because you will be mostly filling the deck with beasts you will almost always wind up with a decent deck even if you didn't get to draft any one specific card because they all go well together.
TLDR; While Mages have the potential to draft the best decks, because of the curve their good cards create they are harder to end up with a great curve which is most essential to winning. I find Hunters are able to more consistently draft high winning decks.
Because the game is totally balanced around arena amirite?
Also playing mage in arena is all about the right drafts. If you don't get a lot of the important spells you need then you're fucked because the class sucks at competing in minion wars.
My experience doesn't agree. I don't feel behind as a Mage without "the right draft' any more than any other class. In fact, I usually feel more comfortable as Mage missing Fireball than I do as a Paladin missing Truesilver Champion or Consecration.
Could you elaborate why you think Mage is at a disadvantage competing in minion wars? Due to their hero power, I would argue they are one of the strongest at getting value for their cards. Only Rogue and Druid can make the same claim, and they do so at a health cost.
My Youtube Channel // The Arena Junky Series
Ahrmin on Twitch
Wot?!
Sure if you get a bad draft you lose, but that's a given for every class.
Mage's advantage is in the abundance of the important cards you want to be drafting; there are both more of them, and they're more common. Consequently you're far less likely to get a terrible Mage draft as you are to get a terrible Hunter draft.
*The only other classes that can claim to have a consequence-free & prerequisite-free hero power are Paladin & Shaman.... coincidentally the other two reliably strong Arena classes.
Pally's hero power is more useful than mage's in arena because it puts out board presence and who ever establishes board presence in arena during the first 3-4 turns pretty much just snowballs and wins. Which is why Pally is still one of the most consistent classes in the arena.
The only good mage minion is the water elemental and it is used for control purposes. It shines when you continue to keep it on the board by using your spells. But when you don't have said spells, it's completely outclassed by stuff like fire elemental because it delays but it doesn't do enough damage to kill.
True, Paladin and Shaman's power is unique in that it creates board presence. However, removal of board presence is also a very important aspect in Arena since the entire 4-5 turns is a tug of war of who will control the field (and, usually, the pace of the game as a result). I see that you were limiting your point to class-specific minions, but I wouldn't limit myself in that manner. Neutral minions will compose the majority of any classes draft, so I don't think it's useful (besides being an interesting academic debate) to argue the virtues of, say, a Fire Elemental vs Water Elemental or Argent Protector vs Defias Ringleader. Its those minions incorporation besides that are going to be important.
It's important to consider the synergy of minions like Water Elemental in a Mage's hands. Due to their hero power, basically one minion on the field will always be +1/+0 at a two mana cost. This allows minions like the Water Elemental or Oasis Snapjaw to be more dangerous removal than they at first appear due to their staying power. Mage sacrifices momentum to do it, though, which is why using their hero power early (or without your own board presence) is usually bad.
My Youtube Channel // The Arena Junky Series
Ahrmin on Twitch
I think the thing that many of you who think mages aren't that good are forgetting is the mage hero power synergizes with SO MANY normal cards. Gurubashi bersker, amani berserker, raging worgen. On top of that, it completely nullifies any divine shield, making an opponent's sunwalker basically a 4/6, for example.
Arena is all about how your class does with all those kind of average-ish minion cards. when a 2 mana card with a ping can take out your chillwind yeti (5/2 amani berserker), that is a huuuuge board control advantage.
I've seen this from both sides - playing as a mage, playing against a mage. The hero ability plus the common class spells are without a doubt the best at synergizing with all the crappy/average cards you have to draft in an arena deck. Anyone who doesn't see that is either not playing mage right, or is playing crappy mages who don't know how to optimize for arena.
Mage is the only class i've gotten 12 wins on, and it consistently gets 7+ wins almost automatically.
Just went 12-2 with this deck. 2 losses were against a shaman and a paladin that were able to rush me down. There was like two other close battles (one rogue, one mage), otherwise I pretty much facerolled everyone. I mean, there's a freakin river crocolisk in there for cripes' sake. Yes I did get good spell cards, but my first 12 win run featured zero flamestrikes and only one fireball, but in that deck I had a ton of enrages, as well as water elementals.
Bottom line: Mage is the class that is protected from the weakest drafts, since they have almost no bad class cards, and their hero power synergizes both amazing with average cards, and against other players' average cards.
Acolyte of Pain also do wonders on mage draft.
Not on a mage. Card advantage is still a good thing in arena, specially when you mostly draft low mana cost cards. He basically becomes a "pay 2 mana, draw a card" ability. It is very good when you need to thin out your deck.
Of course, if you've picked up arcane intellects or other draw engines, it loses value.
I think harvest golem is almost always better than acolyte of pain.