Hearthpwn

Quote from AbusingKel >>

I completely misunderstood Griftah. I thought I would get both cards discovered and my opponent would get a copy of one of the two (at random) for a net gain on my side. Instead he simply splits the two discovered cards, 1 to each player. Terrible card, especially as a legendary. 

He's listed as Above Average in Heartharena, and Good in the Lightforge.

Terrible in constructed? Yes. Terrible in Arena? Not so much. A yeti with an upside is going to be worth picking every once in a while. 

Quote from Liam3Bucks >>

Quote from AbusingKel >>

I completely misunderstood Griftah. I thought I would get both cards discovered and my opponent would get a copy of one of the two (at random) for a net gain on my side. Instead he simply splits the two discovered cards, 1 to each player. Terrible card, especially as a legendary. 

He's listed as Above Average in Heartharena, and Good in the Lightforge.

Terrible in constructed? Yes. Terrible in Arena? Not so much. A yeti with an upside is going to be worth picking every once in a while. 

I rly dont understand how do guys at Lightforge rate it that high. Upside it might have, but chances r it will be an upside for your opponent. Why the hell would you take such a gamble? It simply is not worth it imho. I mean yes, there r worse legendaries you can be offered alongside it, but still.

Quote from Sinti >>

I rly dont understand how do guys at Lightforge rate it that high. Upside it might have, but chances r it will be an upside for your opponent. Why the hell would you take such a gamble? It simply is not worth it imho. I mean yes, there r worse legendaries you can be offered alongside it, but still.

 Because you can manipulate the outcome in a way that is beneficial to you. If you don't want your opponent to have a good card, simply pick two bad/mediocre ones, then it's basically a Yeti. If you need a curve drop, chances are that one of the two choices is more useful to you and if you happen to need an answer and are desperate Griftah can provide the answer in case you're lucky. If you don't need an answer, then simply don't commit to a risky choice.

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

I rly dont understand how do guys at Lightforge rate it that high. Upside it might have, but chances r it will be an upside for your opponent. Why the hell would you take such a gamble? It simply is not worth it imho. I mean yes, there r worse legendaries you can be offered alongside it, but still.

 Because you can manipulate the outcome in a way that is beneficial to you. If you don't want your opponent to have a good card, simply pick two bad/mediocre ones, then it's basically a Yeti. If you need a curve drop, chances are that one of the two choices is more useful to you and if you happen to need an answer and are desperate Griftah can provide the answer in case you're lucky. If you don't need an answer, then simply don't commit to a risky choice.

Sure, but you cannot influence, whether all three cards are good or not (once or twice, doesnt matter, twice only worsens the situation). That is my point. Why risk that scenario? And not like its that unlikely either.

And if the logic here is "pick bad cards, so your opponent cant get a good card". Why the hell do i pick Griftah for? To get a yetti and a bad card and as a bonus to have a chance to just lose the game to bad RNG? Seriously, no argument iv seen since the card got released convinced me so far that what you are getting is worth the trouble.

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

 

Sure, but you cannot influence, whether all three cards are good or not (once or twice, doesnt matter, twice only worsens the situation). That is my point. Why risk that scenario? And not like its that unlikely either.

And if the logic here is "pick bad cards, so your opponent cant get a good card". Why the hell do i pick Griftah for? To get a yetti and a bad card and as a bonus to have a chance to just lose the game to bad RNG? Seriously, no argument iv seen since the card got released convinced me so far that what you are getting is worth the trouble.

 How is it three cards? Your opponent gets one and you get one, or did I misread the card text?

From my perspective, the risk is fairly minimal, you have the advantage of knowing your opponent's card after making the choice and you have initiative when Griftah is played at a later stage of the game. For the second point I already wrote that you can adapt to various situations, I don't quite understand how this loses you the game since you're partially in control of the RNG. Board clears e.g. might not be as useful to your opponent as they might be for you depending on the matchup so you might be fine with your opponent getting a Flamestrike (yes, as crazy as that sounds). Or if you're a tempo deck facing control additional ressources are more useful to you than they are for your opponent. If it's just a Yeti getting you a bad/mediocre card that's still ok, since Yeti is a decent card and that is in essence the baseline power of this card imo. 

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

I rly dont understand how do guys at Lightforge rate it that high. Upside it might have, but chances r it will be an upside for your opponent. Why the hell would you take such a gamble? It simply is not worth it imho. I mean yes, there r worse legendaries you can be offered alongside it, but still.

 Because you can manipulate the outcome in a way that is beneficial to you. If you don't want your opponent to have a good card, simply pick two bad/mediocre ones, then it's basically a Yeti. If you need a curve drop, chances are that one of the two choices is more useful to you and if you happen to need an answer and are desperate Griftah can provide the answer in case you're lucky. If you don't need an answer, then simply don't commit to a risky choice.

Sure, but you cannot influence, whether all three cards are good or not (once or twice, doesnt matter, twice only worsens the situation). That is my point. Why risk that scenario? And not like its that unlikely either.

And if the logic here is "pick bad cards, so your opponent cant get a good card". Why the hell do i pick Griftah for? To get a yetti and a bad card and as a bonus to have a chance to just lose the game to bad RNG? Seriously, no argument iv seen since the card got released convinced me so far that what you are getting is worth the trouble.

Even if Griftah threw a card randomly to each player, he would still be at Yeti's power level. You have a chance to instantly lose the game, but you also have a chance to instantly win the game. The two balance out. For some reason people like to remember the time they get randomly screwed by rng while forgetting the times they got exactly what they needed. Griftah is even better though, because you get to choose the random cards. The Lightforge guys basically said: Have a big board? Don't pick the board clear! You either...

a) Choose two bad cards and you get a Yeti. Cool. I don't see anyone calling Yeti terrible. 

b) You're in a bad position and hail Mary for exactly card you need. Sometimes it works and there is a huge swing in your favour. Other times it doesn't and well, you probably were going to lose that game anyway. 

"Getting a Yeti and a bad card" is still good. You are never going to go from winning to losing instantly unless you playing the card improperly. It rewards the skilled player who can identify which cards are better for them than the opponent. 

Quote from Liam3Bucks >>

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

I rly dont understand how do guys at Lightforge rate it that high. Upside it might have, but chances r it will be an upside for your opponent. Why the hell would you take such a gamble? It simply is not worth it imho. I mean yes, there r worse legendaries you can be offered alongside it, but still.

 Because you can manipulate the outcome in a way that is beneficial to you. If you don't want your opponent to have a good card, simply pick two bad/mediocre ones, then it's basically a Yeti. If you need a curve drop, chances are that one of the two choices is more useful to you and if you happen to need an answer and are desperate Griftah can provide the answer in case you're lucky. If you don't need an answer, then simply don't commit to a risky choice.

Sure, but you cannot influence, whether all three cards are good or not (once or twice, doesnt matter, twice only worsens the situation). That is my point. Why risk that scenario? And not like its that unlikely either.

And if the logic here is "pick bad cards, so your opponent cant get a good card". Why the hell do i pick Griftah for? To get a yetti and a bad card and as a bonus to have a chance to just lose the game to bad RNG? Seriously, no argument iv seen since the card got released convinced me so far that what you are getting is worth the trouble.

Even if Griftah threw a card randomly to each player, he would still be at Yeti's power level. You have a chance to instantly lose the game, but you also have a chance to instantly win the game. The two balance out. For some reason people like to remember the time they get randomly screwed by rng while forgetting the times they got exactly what they needed. Griftah is even better though, because you get to choose the random cards. The Lightforge guys basically said: Have a big board? Don't pick the board clear! You either...

a) Choose two bad cards and you get a Yeti. Cool. I don't see anyone calling Yeti terrible. 

b) You're in a bad position and hail Mary for exactly card you need. Sometimes it works and there is a huge swing in your favour. Other times it doesn't and well, you probably were going to lose that game anyway. 

"Getting a Yeti and a bad card" is still good. You are never going to go from winning to losing instantly unless you playing the card improperly. It rewards the skilled player who can identify which cards are better for them than the opponent.

But the problem is, winning a game and losing a game does not carry the same weight. You win one game, whatever, you lose one game, u are 2 games away from losing the entire run.

Thats why you do everything possible to avoid bad RNG that can lose you the game. The risk is simply not worth it. Not for vanilla stats anyway.

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from ZashikiHS >>

Quote from Sinti >>

 

Sure, but you cannot influence, whether all three cards are good or not (once or twice, doesnt matter, twice only worsens the situation). That is my point. Why risk that scenario? And not like its that unlikely either.

And if the logic here is "pick bad cards, so your opponent cant get a good card". Why the hell do i pick Griftah for? To get a yetti and a bad card and as a bonus to have a chance to just lose the game to bad RNG? Seriously, no argument iv seen since the card got released convinced me so far that what you are getting is worth the trouble.

 How is it three cards? Your opponent gets one and you get one, or did I misread the card text?

From my perspective, the risk is fairly minimal, you have the advantage of knowing your opponent's card after making the choice and you have initiative when Griftah is played at a later stage of the game. For the second point I already wrote that you can adapt to various situations, I don't quite understand how this loses you the game since you're partially in control of the RNG. Board clears e.g. might not be as useful to your opponent as they might be for you depending on the matchup so you might be fine with your opponent getting a Flamestrike (yes, as crazy as that sounds). Or if you're a tempo deck facing control additional ressources are more useful to you than they are for your opponent. If it's just a Yeti getting you a bad/mediocre card that's still ok, since Yeti is a decent card and that is in essence the baseline power of this card imo.

By "three cards" i meant the three discover options. It may very well happen, that none of the three cards offered will be a bad card ;-) And yes, you get to know what card your opponent gets, but why even give it to him? If Griftah had better stats, i would probably agree, that the risk would be worth the tempo, but having to go through all these hoops for just vanilla stats? No thanks.

I think Griftah is fine :) 

Griftah cannot be worse than average, it literally cannot, and the way the card is worded means that it is, on average, above average. I honestly think people still struggle with variance, for the same reason people think Fel Reaver was a bad arena card etc. All calls about "risk" are vastly overexaggerated. 

As an aside, by MVP so far is Gurubashi Hypemon, a card that has singlehandedly won me about half the games in my Control Rogue arena run. 

Quick meta scenario question:

Turn three vs Warrior: better to play dragonslayer into empty board, or better to leave board empty in order to use dragonslayer against one of the many dragons I am about to face?

Maybe I missed the explanation on it, but there's no arena impact for Rise of Shadows? Is it because people are moving over to HearthStation?

Quote from DyingAtheist >>

Maybe I missed the explanation on it, but there's no arena impact for Rise of Shadows? Is it because people are moving over to HearthStation?

 We started the thread on HearthStation for this reveal period.  You can find it HERE.

Huh, first time I hear about that site. I am too busy (and kinda lazy) at the moment to catch up to all the cards so see you at the next expansion review.

Just in case anyone wanted to know what the best classes will be when this expansion takes effect with Naxx and other Wild sets coming it will be Priest, Warlock, Rogue & Mage. 

Priest is getting Dark Cultist back Potion of Madness, Kabal Talonpriest, Dragonfire Potion.

Warlock is getting back Blastcrystal Potion, Felfire Potion, Abyssal Enforcer, Darkshire Councilman, DOOM!, Voidcaller.

Rogue Jade Shuriken, Lotus Assassin, Undercity Huckster, Shadow Strike.

Mage Twilight Flamecaller, Cabalist's Tome, Faceless Summoner, Volcanic Potion.

Warrior will go back to being trash tier. It wasn't until two expansions ago where Warrior actually started to be good in Arena.

Paladin will be missing most of there broken cards and almost all there OP weapons. They will be near the bottom.

Druid. Shaman and Hunter will be Mid-Tier.

Am not sure if Abyssal Enforcer show rate is still reduced from when it got hacked years ago. If not Warlock will be at the very top with Priest. Warlock was super dominant during that time with Priest.