Death Knight Hero cards can no longer be drafted in Arena.
Seems fair right? Jaina DK in arena was pretty much GG, and I think while I enjoyed the spike of powerlevel cards that DK's in arena provided it was a massive RNG swing if you did or didn't draft one. But wait....what's this?
Hallelujah. It's my very own Arena DK finder! Complete with massive RNG! But...wait it gets even better. It's just for ONE class! And what's that? It's one of the classes that is consistently in the top 3 contenders of arena? Thanks Blizzard!
Oh wait....think I'm done? Well stick around for our special made for TV offer right now!
Well hello Hagatha! You aren't in arena either. But wait, you aren't a Death Knight!?! That's odd, so one class specific legendary card that happens to be a hero is ALSO banned from arena even though they aren't a Death Knight? I guess 8 mana cost alternate heroes are 'too stronk' for Arena eh?
....eh...wait....they aren't? Well hello there old friend!
I see you're still in arena. You're rare, but I know you still exist there too. And you're 9 mana! Well that's not far off from 8 mana, but I guess if you're a "hero" your banned, but as long as your a battlecry minion you're immune!
Going on the assumption that this isn’t just a troll-post and that there is sincerity in your complaint:
The chances of the above actually happening are so minute as to being far to little of a concern, one would say.
Wow, thank you for your condescending post! Seriously though, are you always this arrogant and rude? Of course it's a valid complaint, I'm a little taken aback by the opinion piece on the front page, but yes I'm dead serious. How are any of these inconsistencies in alternate heroes "minute"?
Going on the assumption that this isn’t just a troll-post and that there is sincerity in your complaint:
The chances of the above actually happening are so minute as to being far to little of a concern, one would say.
Wow, thank you for your condescending post! Seriously though, are you always this arrogant and rude? Of course it's a valid complaint, I'm a little taken aback by the opinion piece on the front page, but yes I'm dead serious. How are any of these inconsistencies in alternate heroes "minute"?
Ok, you got me. Now I dont know if you’re still being serious or staying in character. ๐ Bravo.
On the off chance you were, not really sure how you thought anything I said there was either rude or condescending in the slightest. “I’m not sure that word means what you think it means...” (for ref, THAT would be considered more condescending). I was genuinely pointing out that the chances of getting a Hallucination in the draft, THEN meeting a Warlock or Shaman and THeN on top of that managing to find a DK etc are all pretty slim.
All I did was disagree with you. Are you unable to handle someone doing that? If so, I’m happy to move on...
Going on the assumption that this isn’t just a troll-post and that there is sincerity in your complaint:
The chances of the above actually happening are so minute as to being far to little of a concern, one would say.
Wow, thank you for your condescending post! Seriously though, are you always this arrogant and rude? Of course it's a valid complaint, I'm a little taken aback by the opinion piece on the front page, but yes I'm dead serious. How are any of these inconsistencies in alternate heroes "minute"?
You cant seriously expect to get only constructive replies with how you went about this ... you clearly invite flame here. If it was your intention or not, that is debatable, but it is the fact.
Anyway, Blizzard stated many times that they consider Jaraxxus a very unique case and they dont go back and change "old mechanics" to match the new ones in general anyways (Unstable Evolution > no echo, Yshaarj > no recruit etc) and it makes sense. Sure, they "have to" sacrifice some consistency here and there, but i think it is the better option.
About gettin Hero Cards from discovers and random effects, you can get all the banned cards that way, i know Hero Cards r the biggest offenders so thats why whenever someone makes a topic like this, it's their only problem and that is the only "consistency" they care about. But it doesnt even happen that often to be worth gettin into and it is left like that on purpose anyway. You are free not to agree with that, but you would be delusional, if you think any change in this area will come any time soon (or ever).
Are you sure DKs can still RNG their way into Arena matches, though? C'Thun cards were, as far as I know, completely removed from the mode, including the card generation pool.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Are you sure DKs can still RNG their way into Arena matches, though? C'Thun cards were, as far as I know, completely removed from the mode, including the card generation pool.
Are you sure DKs can still RNG their way into Arena matches, though? C'Thun cards were, as far as I know, completely removed from the mode, including the card generation pool.
"Knights of the Frozen Throne hero cards will not be included in Arena picks. However, they can still appear in Arena games through random effects."
Much obliged :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Going on the assumption that this isn’t just a troll-post and that there is sincerity in your complaint:
The chances of the above actually happening are so minute as to being far to little of a concern, one would say.
Wow, thank you for your condescending post! Seriously though, are you always this arrogant and rude? Of course it's a valid complaint, I'm a little taken aback by the opinion piece on the front page, but yes I'm dead serious. How are any of these inconsistencies in alternate heroes "minute"?
Ok, you got me. Now I dont know if you’re still being serious or staying in character. ๐ Bravo.
On the off chance you were, not really sure how you thought anything I said there was either rude or condescending in the slightest. “I’m not sure that word means what you think it means...” (for ref, THAT would be considered more condescending). I was genuinely pointing out that the chances of getting a Hallucination in the draft, THEN meeting a Warlock or Shaman and THeN on top of that managing to find a DK etc are all pretty slim.
All I did was disagree with you. Are you unable to handle someone doing that? If so, I’m happy to move on...
Please do move on then. Seriously you are probably the 2nd rudest person I've met on these forums. If you don't want to provide a positive response then just don't bother making a comment in the first place. EVEN IF I was trolling...what's the cardinal rule? "Don't feed the trolls".
But also, you are completely misunderstanding the situation.
Hallucination doesn't only find Jarraxus or Hagatha. Hallucination can find ANY DEATH KNIGHT. Meaning if you hallucinate against a mage? Oh look, Jaina DK. Hallucinate against a paladin? Hi Uther of the Ebon Blade! I figured someone with over 2000 posts such as yourself would be aware of this...
And not being able to draft Hagatha for shaman arena runs is not cool either. She's not a Death Knight, but still is banned. And this next statement goes for everyone in the thread, not just you:
None of you find it the LEAST bit problematic that really COOL or FUN cards like Death Knights, or in the future any other Alt Heroes are just going to instantly be banned? I mean if you take the current standard year of expansions (ungoro to present)...
2/4 of the CORE mechanics from those expansions were removed/banned. (Quests/DK's) . Don't get me wrong, I understand WHY they were banned, Quests require synergy which is nearly impossible to draft for, and DK's (notably Guldan and Jaina) were seriously overpowered.
And to that degree, I KIND of understand why hagatha is banned, but at the same time technically she shouldn't be. And as I stated above, is this going to continue? If so, it's kind of concerning. If core mechanics continue to be removed from arena, perhaps Blizzard should consider different mechanics. If Blizzard is worried about not everyone getting super powerful cards, they could do what Faeria did for it's draft mechanic, and just guarantee every player gets the same # of artifacts (in fact, the Dungeon run system is very similar to Faeria's arena system).
And not being able to draft Hagatha for shaman arena runs is not cool either. She's not a Death Knight, but still is banned. And this next statement goes for everyone in the thread, not just you:
None of you find it the LEAST bit problematic that really COOL or FUN cards like Death Knights, or in the future any other Alt Heroes are just going to instantly be banned? I mean if you take the current standard year of expansions (ungoro to present)...
Ehm, what? You complain about being able to still get them, somehow, and that it is not fair and then you go and say it is a shame they r no longer in the draft pool? What? No, im not sad they r gone, not at all. There r other game modes where you can enjoy playin with them plenty, for arena they r too polarizing. And yes, i realize im kinda goin against what i said earlier, that it is "ok" to leave them in the random pool, but honestly, there is so much RNG BS that the fact that you get a hero card once in a blue moon is about as bad feeling for your opponent as gettin a Pyroblast from Glyph for perfect lethal or whatever. But being able to draft those cards, that is a very different story.
Seriously you are probably the 2nd rudest person I've met on these forums.
You're quite the angry person, hey? If that's true, I'm guessing you've not met many people here yet. Trust me, there's lots of people ruder than myself ;-) Why you're taking your frustrations out on me specifically is anybody's guess, but I'll go with it...
If you don't want to provide a positive response then just don't bother making a comment in the first place. EVEN IF I was trolling...what's the cardinal rule? "Don't feed the trolls".
That would be fine, except that I specifically said that (on the off chance you weren't trolling), here is my response. So I gave you the benefit of the doubt, in fact, and treated your post as being serious instead of laughing it off. That's actually a kindness, rather than being rude. Maybe you're not used to kindness and don't recognise it? I don't know. Your particular problem, however, appears to be that my response didn't outright agree with you and instead provided an alternative opinion that disagreed with you - which you inadvertently appear to have taken offense to. Do you not hear "no" often, I wonder?
But also, you are completely misunderstanding the situation. Hallucination doesn't only find Jarraxus or Hagatha. Hallucination can find ANY DEATH KNIGHT. Meaning if you hallucinate against a mage? Oh look, Jaina DK. Hallucinate against a paladin? Hi Uther of the Ebon Blade! I figured someone with over 2000 posts such as yourself would be aware of this...
And that wasn't the point of my response. My response pointed out quite plainly that the chances of you finding ANY Deathknight (I simply used two classes as an example) were literally 1 in a very big number. I really don't see how anyone could possibly consider that to be "rude". It's just pointing out a flaw in your argument. From your example here, you make it sound like playing Hallucination pretty much guarantees you a DK every time you play it. *shrug*
None of you find it the LEAST bit problematic that really COOL or FUN cards like Death Knights, or in the future any other Alt Heroes are just going to instantly be banned?
I'm confused now. You were only just complaining about how Deathknights could still be obtained and used in Arena, but now you are saying that they are 'cool' and 'fun' and that losing them is 'problematic'. I think you may need to clarify your position on this one a bit more?
2/4 of the CORE mechanics from those expansions were removed/banned.
Also known as one half (or 1/2). "Quick Maffs" ;-) (Ok, that WAS rude, but it was wide open... :-P )
And to that degree, I KIND of understand why hagatha is banned, but at the same time technically she shouldn't be. And as I stated above, is this going to continue? If so, it's kind of concerning. If core mechanics continue to be removed from arena, perhaps Blizzard should consider different mechanics.
I think it is more that Blizzard are aware that the power levels of Dks in particular is such that they provide too much imbalance against decks that did not find one in their draft. Finding one through the incredibly low chance of a Hallucination or similar mechanic, is probably deemed acceptable. There are much greater chances of finding a lethal / game-swing card from a discover or similar mechanic.
If Blizzard is worried about not everyone getting super powerful cards, they could do what Faeria did for it's draft mechanic, and just guarantee every player gets the same # of artifacts (in fact, the Dungeon run system is very similar to Faeria's arena system).
While that may work for that game, it limits the potential of any draft to be properly randomised, and especially affects the likelihood of picking a particular class if you know you are likely to get a DK in it (such as Gul'dan or Jaina).
"Hallucination doesn't only find Jarraxus or Hagatha. Hallucination can find ANY DEATH KNIGHT. Meaning if you hallucinate against a mage? Oh look, Jaina DK. Hallucinate against a paladin? Hi Uther of the Ebon Blade! I figured someone with over 2000 posts such as yourself would be aware of this..."
quick maffs!!!
So... 3/9 classes to get rogue. Let's say you pick all hallucinations you encounter... I assume their avg count will be what...3, may be 4. I have no solid numbers, but I am pretty sure cards in arena are at least 500, of which class cards will be like 40, right?
I don't have the exact numbers, therefore I can't do exact math, but still... 1 in 3, then 1 in 7,5(4 hallucinations in 30 cards), then minimum of 1/10 in the third power(assuming you get three legendary cards as Hallucination picks(it is not 1/40 because legs are 4 times more likely to show up), then 1 out of 5 or 6 mage legendaries...? Oh, look, a chance for jaina that is somewhere around 1 in 110000.... Good.
Welp, since we have a news article that pretty much condones complaining/bashing Blizzard...I do have a complaint I'd like to air as well.
I'd like to cite https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20758787441 as Exhibit A, specifically this section
Seems fair right? Jaina DK in arena was pretty much GG, and I think while I enjoyed the spike of powerlevel cards that DK's in arena provided it was a massive RNG swing if you did or didn't draft one. But wait....what's this?
Hallelujah. It's my very own Arena DK finder! Complete with massive RNG! But...wait it gets even better. It's just for ONE class! And what's that? It's one of the classes that is consistently in the top 3 contenders of arena? Thanks Blizzard!
Oh wait....think I'm done? Well stick around for our special made for TV offer right now!
Well hello Hagatha! You aren't in arena either. But wait, you aren't a Death Knight!?! That's odd, so one class specific legendary card that happens to be a hero is ALSO banned from arena even though they aren't a Death Knight? I guess 8 mana cost alternate heroes are 'too stronk' for Arena eh?
....eh...wait....they aren't? Well hello there old friend!
I see you're still in arena. You're rare, but I know you still exist there too. And you're 9 mana! Well that's not far off from 8 mana, but I guess if you're a "hero" your banned, but as long as your a battlecry minion you're immune!
I love consistency...don't you guys?
Going on the assumption that this isn’t just a troll-post and that there is sincerity in your complaint:
The chances of the above actually happening are so minute as to being far to little of a concern, one would say.
I guess they could have changed Jarax and Majordomo to hero cards, but they didn't...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Wow, thank you for your condescending post! Seriously though, are you always this arrogant and rude? Of course it's a valid complaint, I'm a little taken aback by the opinion piece on the front page, but yes I'm dead serious. How are any of these inconsistencies in alternate heroes "minute"?
Ok, you got me. Now I dont know if you’re still being serious or staying in character. ๐ Bravo.
On the off chance you were, not really sure how you thought anything I said there was either rude or condescending in the slightest. “I’m not sure that word means what you think it means...” (for ref, THAT would be considered more condescending). I was genuinely pointing out that the chances of getting a Hallucination in the draft, THEN meeting a Warlock or Shaman and THeN on top of that managing to find a DK etc are all pretty slim.
All I did was disagree with you. Are you unable to handle someone doing that? If so, I’m happy to move on...
You cant seriously expect to get only constructive replies with how you went about this ... you clearly invite flame here. If it was your intention or not, that is debatable, but it is the fact.
Anyway, Blizzard stated many times that they consider Jaraxxus a very unique case and they dont go back and change "old mechanics" to match the new ones in general anyways (Unstable Evolution > no echo, Yshaarj > no recruit etc) and it makes sense. Sure, they "have to" sacrifice some consistency here and there, but i think it is the better option.
About gettin Hero Cards from discovers and random effects, you can get all the banned cards that way, i know Hero Cards r the biggest offenders so thats why whenever someone makes a topic like this, it's their only problem and that is the only "consistency" they care about. But it doesnt even happen that often to be worth gettin into and it is left like that on purpose anyway. You are free not to agree with that, but you would be delusional, if you think any change in this area will come any time soon (or ever).
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
Are you sure DKs can still RNG their way into Arena matches, though? C'Thun cards were, as far as I know, completely removed from the mode, including the card generation pool.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Yes, they can my dear Morkimus :) : https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Hero_card
"Knights of the Frozen Throne hero cards will not be included in Arena picks. However, they can still appear in Arena games through random effects."
Much obliged :D
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Please do move on then. Seriously you are probably the 2nd rudest person I've met on these forums. If you don't want to provide a positive response then just don't bother making a comment in the first place. EVEN IF I was trolling...what's the cardinal rule? "Don't feed the trolls".
But also, you are completely misunderstanding the situation.
Hallucination doesn't only find Jarraxus or Hagatha. Hallucination can find ANY DEATH KNIGHT. Meaning if you hallucinate against a mage? Oh look, Jaina DK. Hallucinate against a paladin? Hi Uther of the Ebon Blade! I figured someone with over 2000 posts such as yourself would be aware of this...
And not being able to draft Hagatha for shaman arena runs is not cool either. She's not a Death Knight, but still is banned. And this next statement goes for everyone in the thread, not just you:
None of you find it the LEAST bit problematic that really COOL or FUN cards like Death Knights, or in the future any other Alt Heroes are just going to instantly be banned? I mean if you take the current standard year of expansions (ungoro to present)...
2/4 of the CORE mechanics from those expansions were removed/banned. (Quests/DK's) . Don't get me wrong, I understand WHY they were banned, Quests require synergy which is nearly impossible to draft for, and DK's (notably Guldan and Jaina) were seriously overpowered.
And to that degree, I KIND of understand why hagatha is banned, but at the same time technically she shouldn't be. And as I stated above, is this going to continue? If so, it's kind of concerning. If core mechanics continue to be removed from arena, perhaps Blizzard should consider different mechanics. If Blizzard is worried about not everyone getting super powerful cards, they could do what Faeria did for it's draft mechanic, and just guarantee every player gets the same # of artifacts (in fact, the Dungeon run system is very similar to Faeria's arena system).
Ehm, what? You complain about being able to still get them, somehow, and that it is not fair and then you go and say it is a shame they r no longer in the draft pool? What? No, im not sad they r gone, not at all. There r other game modes where you can enjoy playin with them plenty, for arena they r too polarizing. And yes, i realize im kinda goin against what i said earlier, that it is "ok" to leave them in the random pool, but honestly, there is so much RNG BS that the fact that you get a hero card once in a blue moon is about as bad feeling for your opponent as gettin a Pyroblast from Glyph for perfect lethal or whatever. But being able to draft those cards, that is a very different story.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
You're quite the angry person, hey? If that's true, I'm guessing you've not met many people here yet. Trust me, there's lots of people ruder than myself ;-) Why you're taking your frustrations out on me specifically is anybody's guess, but I'll go with it...
That would be fine, except that I specifically said that (on the off chance you weren't trolling), here is my response. So I gave you the benefit of the doubt, in fact, and treated your post as being serious instead of laughing it off. That's actually a kindness, rather than being rude. Maybe you're not used to kindness and don't recognise it? I don't know.
Your particular problem, however, appears to be that my response didn't outright agree with you and instead provided an alternative opinion that disagreed with you - which you inadvertently appear to have taken offense to. Do you not hear "no" often, I wonder?
And that wasn't the point of my response. My response pointed out quite plainly that the chances of you finding ANY Deathknight (I simply used two classes as an example) were literally 1 in a very big number. I really don't see how anyone could possibly consider that to be "rude". It's just pointing out a flaw in your argument.
From your example here, you make it sound like playing Hallucination pretty much guarantees you a DK every time you play it.
*shrug*
I'm confused now. You were only just complaining about how Deathknights could still be obtained and used in Arena, but now you are saying that they are 'cool' and 'fun' and that losing them is 'problematic'. I think you may need to clarify your position on this one a bit more?
Also known as one half (or 1/2). "Quick Maffs" ;-)
(Ok, that WAS rude, but it was wide open... :-P )
I think it is more that Blizzard are aware that the power levels of Dks in particular is such that they provide too much imbalance against decks that did not find one in their draft. Finding one through the incredibly low chance of a Hallucination or similar mechanic, is probably deemed acceptable. There are much greater chances of finding a lethal / game-swing card from a discover or similar mechanic.
While that may work for that game, it limits the potential of any draft to be properly randomised, and especially affects the likelihood of picking a particular class if you know you are likely to get a DK in it (such as Gul'dan or Jaina).
Ive never seen a dk played in arena through discover. Tho i know its possible
"Hallucination doesn't only find Jarraxus or Hagatha. Hallucination can find ANY DEATH KNIGHT. Meaning if you hallucinate against a mage? Oh look, Jaina DK. Hallucinate against a paladin? Hi Uther of the Ebon Blade! I figured someone with over 2000 posts such as yourself would be aware of this..."
quick maffs!!!
So... 3/9 classes to get rogue. Let's say you pick all hallucinations you encounter... I assume their avg count will be what...3, may be 4. I have no solid numbers, but I am pretty sure cards in arena are at least 500, of which class cards will be like 40, right?
I don't have the exact numbers, therefore I can't do exact math, but still... 1 in 3, then 1 in 7,5(4 hallucinations in 30 cards), then minimum of 1/10 in the third power(assuming you get three legendary cards as Hallucination picks(it is not 1/40 because legs are 4 times more likely to show up), then 1 out of 5 or 6 mage legendaries...? Oh, look, a chance for jaina that is somewhere around 1 in 110000.... Good.
Good, as in Good luck....with THAT.
"...Good.
Good, as in Good luck....with THAT."
Haha..that lil diddy tickled me..