I have been playing hearthstone since beta, mainly an arena player avg 7 wins before, now around 6 wins. I understand drafting involves RNG and luck is inevitable in card games like hearthstone, but what I would like to stress is that blizzard creates far too many insane power level cards in recent expansions and that makes arena less and less skill-oriented. There were decent quality cards in the past but cards like ultimate infestation, spreading plague, bonemare, free from amber, dragonfire potion and DK cards are insanely broken in arena mode. Flamestrike is one of the cards that I can think of from the previous card pool that is comparable to those cards. Those high power-levelled cards in the past are "relatively fair" as they usually have some kind of drawbacks. If you play jaraxxus your health is reset to 15, while you gain 5 armor plus better hero power plus battlecry for the DK cards. If you play sprint for 7 mana you basically give up your turn, while ultimate infestation not only gives you card draw but also gives you direct damage plus a 5/5 body (3 mana = draw 1 more card, 5 armor, 5 damage, 5/5 minion). I don't feel bad losing to players with multiple high power leveled cards, coz that's pretty rare and one needs to be super luck to achieve that, but losing a game just because your opponent has 1 insanely-powered card really pisses me off. Blizzard has banned DK cards and vicious fledgling (which is good), but there are other cards that blizzard needs to look deep into as well. The arena meta now is too much card quality-oriented which make you almost impossible to turn the tide even if you have a better skill level.
I just want to say one thing, you dont have to throw around average wins to be taken seriously or why else ppl do that, especially high ones like that, that will most likely result in the opposite effect, since many ppl do this and they most certainly skew on the information a lot. Dont take this personally, but its something i felt like saying for a while now and your posts starts with it so im saying it now :)
To the issue at hand: The problem is, that Blizzard doesnt seem to care, when it comes to card rarity. Or at least not too much, other factors will most definitely come into play for choosing rarity before arena balance is even considered, we can clearly see that from a lot of cards.
Ofc they cant make all the cards epics, some of them has to be commons and then there is the factor what card should be (or could pass as) common/rare/epic given the effect and other aspects of the card. Im not saying this is an easy process, it most definitely is not, but one that should be given a bit more consideration. Mby they do do that, we dont know what is happening behind the closed doors, but from the released cards in the past, it doesnt feel like it.
With that said, the power level of some cards feels naturally overwhelming. Yeah, we bitch about that all the time, but can we rly blame them for it in the end? They kinda have to come up with new ideas constantly to make them appealing to the masses, so ppl buy new cards and wont play with old ones forever. Blizzard is a business after all, not a charity. Especially for the constructed format and thats where the card rarity comes into play. They focus on having a card rarity as a means to make certain cards/decks (in)accessible in the constructed at a certain rate (time/money) and arena suffers for it. Im not gonna excuse/defend them for everything, like i said, there should be more consideration to some aspects of card design, but i can understand the bigger picture (i think).
They seem to be focusin on arena a lot this year. More fails than not, yeah, but at least something is happening and even if the progress is very very slow, there might be some good results in the end. So, fingers crossed! :)
In general, i think its fine to have high power cards in arena as well, there is rly no way to avoid that other than to ban like 1/3 of all cards in HS from arena or something. If u take one OP card out, the meta shifts, new OP card rises and u are where u started.
The arena has some basic concept, but different ppl like different aspects of it, as we could very clearly see during the dual class arena in Hallow's End. It definitely wasnt my cup of tea, cause the decks were just so polarized and it was probably even bigger RNGfiesta than UnGoro was and thats sayin something. But tons of ppl liked it. They had fun with it. Many ppl who normally dont play arena played arena during that time. Sure, it was mostly cause it was something new and exciting and if it continued for a month or two, most of these ppl would probably get fed up with it, but thats not rly the point. The point is that it was something different, high power cards all around or not. That brings me to what you are talking about. High power cards will always be in arena. We can certainly have a discussion about how much power is too much (which i suppose is what are u trying to have right now lol :P), but thats kinda subjective for everyone for the most part. Do i agree that Flappy Bird or DKs should not be part of arena? Yes. But in the end, i would be ok with them staying there as well. And that can be said about most of the high power cards i think.
Well, i guess i should end now, before i give u a headache from the wall of text :D
These strong, go-in-every-deck common neutrals are oppressive precisely because they go into near every deck of every class, and they are strong enough to weaken the considerations of mana curve until late in the draft. Ideally you'd be picking middle quality class cards over magma ragers, albeit that would make class balance more critical, or at least things that fit your curve or "synergize" better with your draft. (The latter an ongoing problem in arena.)
OP is right. It's really important to draft the high-quality cards in order to do well.
I find that you cannot compensate for quality by drafting a fast deck. It's nice to have 1- and 2-drops, but it's more important to have mid-game value in the meta right now. 3- to 6-drops are king. I use HearthArena, and it constantly bugs you to choose lower cost minions even when you should choose something with higher value.
I use HearthArena, and it constantly bugs you to choose lower cost minions even when you should choose something with higher value.
I still use HearthArena for stat-tracking purposes, but I've turned off the advisor bubble and card ratings when I draft. My average has actually gone up since then. HearthArena can't account for your personal playstyle and experience. There have been times I've chosen the lowest rated card of the three offered to me simply because I know exactly how I want to use it.
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Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
I use HearthArena, and it constantly bugs you to choose lower cost minions even when you should choose something with higher value.
I still use HearthArena for stat-tracking purposes, but I've turned off the advisor bubble and card ratings when I draft. My average has actually gone up since then. HearthArena can't account for your personal playstyle and experience. There have been times I've chosen the lowest rated card of the three offered to me simply because I know exactly how I want to use it.
Started doing the same lately. I feel Heartharena locks you into an archetype too early and then uses it to influence your decision making. I was 15 picks in to a draft and despite having enough 2-drops to last me the game, it was prioritising relatively average ones over solid late game cards because it was determined to make me an 'aggro' archetype deck rather than just trying to smooth out the curve.
Do like the stat tracking though. Used to use Hearthstone Deck Tracker but find it has a nasty habit of just wiping results mid-run.
Agree. I tried to draft a few super fast decks in arena. It turns out even if I play on curve from turn 1-4, it really doesn't matter much as there is a whole bunch of cheap AOEs, or quality mid-drops, and there are more and more heals / gain amours as new expansions released. Now I draft more towards the midrange / attrition style. I find in general those decks work better in the current arena meta though occasionally I would still lose to aggro decks with insane early games.
I don't get mad for drafting aggro and lose to AOEs coz that's what I get for drafting such decks, high risk high reward. I just hate the "draw-that-one-card-and-you-win" type of game.
I see your point there, but the super high power cards are simply too much. Cobalt Scalebane gives you an edge when you are even with or ahead of your opponent. When you are behind it works as a 5 drop 5/5. Yes I would lose a game because of this card but it is not impossible to recover from the deficit. But insanely OP cards like ultimate infestation can actually bring you back from far behind. You draw 5 cards without losing much tempo as you also summon a 5/5, while you also gain 5 amour that prevents your from losing next turn??? Firelands portal is already "quite" OP but this card guarantee you a 5/5 which is slightly better than a random 5 drop. Plus a sprint that draws 5 cards. That's at least 7.5 from a slightly better firelands + 7 from sprint + 1.5 from extra card draw + another 1.5 from 5 armor = at least 7.5 mana swing given your opponent also play 10mana-worth of stuff. 10-mana cards are supposed to be high power, I understand, but most other cards either can be played around or the card has some disadvantage in certain circumstances.
I see your point there, but the super high power cards are simply too much. Cobalt Scalebane gives you an edge when you are even with or ahead of your opponent. When you are behind it works as a 5 drop 5/5. Yes I would lose a game because of this card but it is not impossible to recover from the deficit. But insanely OP cards like ultimate infestation can actually bring you back from far behind. You draw 5 cards without losing much tempo as you also summon a 5/5, while you also gain 5 amour that prevents your from losing next turn??? Firelands portal is already "quite" OP but this card guarantee you a 5/5 which is slightly better than a random 5 drop. Plus a sprint that draws 5 cards. That's at least 7.5 from a slightly better firelands + 7 from sprint + 1.5 from extra card draw + another 1.5 from 5 armor = at least 7.5 mana swing given your opponent also play 10mana-worth of stuff. 10-mana cards are supposed to be high power, I understand, but most other cards either can be played around or the card has some disadvantage in certain circumstances.
Well, yeah. When my opponent plays Ultimate Infestation in Arena, I generally concede on the spot if I can't foresee winning in the next two turns. The exception would be if I also had a full hand of cards to match their newly filled hand, and that is rarely the case by turn 10. UI is far too strong in Arena.
this is going to come off salty because i am, but holy moses, this arena meta is bad... so many rng swings, so many busted cards, every counter feels like a highway robbery.
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I have been playing hearthstone since beta, mainly an arena player avg 7 wins before, now around 6 wins. I understand drafting involves RNG and luck is inevitable in card games like hearthstone, but what I would like to stress is that blizzard creates far too many insane power level cards in recent expansions and that makes arena less and less skill-oriented. There were decent quality cards in the past but cards like ultimate infestation, spreading plague, bonemare, free from amber, dragonfire potion and DK cards are insanely broken in arena mode. Flamestrike is one of the cards that I can think of from the previous card pool that is comparable to those cards. Those high power-levelled cards in the past are "relatively fair" as they usually have some kind of drawbacks. If you play jaraxxus your health is reset to 15, while you gain 5 armor plus better hero power plus battlecry for the DK cards. If you play sprint for 7 mana you basically give up your turn, while ultimate infestation not only gives you card draw but also gives you direct damage plus a 5/5 body (3 mana = draw 1 more card, 5 armor, 5 damage, 5/5 minion). I don't feel bad losing to players with multiple high power leveled cards, coz that's pretty rare and one needs to be super luck to achieve that, but losing a game just because your opponent has 1 insanely-powered card really pisses me off. Blizzard has banned DK cards and vicious fledgling (which is good), but there are other cards that blizzard needs to look deep into as well. The arena meta now is too much card quality-oriented which make you almost impossible to turn the tide even if you have a better skill level.
I just want to say one thing, you dont have to throw around average wins to be taken seriously or why else ppl do that, especially high ones like that, that will most likely result in the opposite effect, since many ppl do this and they most certainly skew on the information a lot. Dont take this personally, but its something i felt like saying for a while now and your posts starts with it so im saying it now :)
To the issue at hand:
The problem is, that Blizzard doesnt seem to care, when it comes to card rarity. Or at least not too much, other factors will most definitely come into play for choosing rarity before arena balance is even considered, we can clearly see that from a lot of cards.
Ofc they cant make all the cards epics, some of them has to be commons and then there is the factor what card should be (or could pass as) common/rare/epic given the effect and other aspects of the card. Im not saying this is an easy process, it most definitely is not, but one that should be given a bit more consideration. Mby they do do that, we dont know what is happening behind the closed doors, but from the released cards in the past, it doesnt feel like it.
With that said, the power level of some cards feels naturally overwhelming. Yeah, we bitch about that all the time, but can we rly blame them for it in the end? They kinda have to come up with new ideas constantly to make them appealing to the masses, so ppl buy new cards and wont play with old ones forever. Blizzard is a business after all, not a charity. Especially for the constructed format and thats where the card rarity comes into play. They focus on having a card rarity as a means to make certain cards/decks (in)accessible in the constructed at a certain rate (time/money) and arena suffers for it. Im not gonna excuse/defend them for everything, like i said, there should be more consideration to some aspects of card design, but i can understand the bigger picture (i think).
They seem to be focusin on arena a lot this year. More fails than not, yeah, but at least something is happening and even if the progress is very very slow, there might be some good results in the end. So, fingers crossed! :)
In general, i think its fine to have high power cards in arena as well, there is rly no way to avoid that other than to ban like 1/3 of all cards in HS from arena or something. If u take one OP card out, the meta shifts, new OP card rises and u are where u started.
The arena has some basic concept, but different ppl like different aspects of it, as we could very clearly see during the dual class arena in Hallow's End. It definitely wasnt my cup of tea, cause the decks were just so polarized and it was probably even bigger RNGfiesta than UnGoro was and thats sayin something. But tons of ppl liked it. They had fun with it. Many ppl who normally dont play arena played arena during that time. Sure, it was mostly cause it was something new and exciting and if it continued for a month or two, most of these ppl would probably get fed up with it, but thats not rly the point. The point is that it was something different, high power cards all around or not. That brings me to what you are talking about. High power cards will always be in arena. We can certainly have a discussion about how much power is too much (which i suppose is what are u trying to have right now lol :P), but thats kinda subjective for everyone for the most part. Do i agree that Flappy Bird or DKs should not be part of arena? Yes. But in the end, i would be ok with them staying there as well. And that can be said about most of the high power cards i think.
Well, i guess i should end now, before i give u a headache from the wall of text :D
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Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
These strong, go-in-every-deck common neutrals are oppressive precisely because they go into near every deck of every class, and they are strong enough to weaken the considerations of mana curve until late in the draft. Ideally you'd be picking middle quality class cards over magma ragers, albeit that would make class balance more critical, or at least things that fit your curve or "synergize" better with your draft. (The latter an ongoing problem in arena.)
OP is right. It's really important to draft the high-quality cards in order to do well.
I find that you cannot compensate for quality by drafting a fast deck. It's nice to have 1- and 2-drops, but it's more important to have mid-game value in the meta right now. 3- to 6-drops are king. I use HearthArena, and it constantly bugs you to choose lower cost minions even when you should choose something with higher value.
Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
Agree. I tried to draft a few super fast decks in arena. It turns out even if I play on curve from turn 1-4, it really doesn't matter much as there is a whole bunch of cheap AOEs, or quality mid-drops, and there are more and more heals / gain amours as new expansions released. Now I draft more towards the midrange / attrition style. I find in general those decks work better in the current arena meta though occasionally I would still lose to aggro decks with insane early games.
I don't get mad for drafting aggro and lose to AOEs coz that's what I get for drafting such decks, high risk high reward. I just hate the "draw-that-one-card-and-you-win" type of game.
I see your point there, but the super high power cards are simply too much. Cobalt Scalebane gives you an edge when you are even with or ahead of your opponent. When you are behind it works as a 5 drop 5/5. Yes I would lose a game because of this card but it is not impossible to recover from the deficit. But insanely OP cards like ultimate infestation can actually bring you back from far behind. You draw 5 cards without losing much tempo as you also summon a 5/5, while you also gain 5 amour that prevents your from losing next turn??? Firelands portal is already "quite" OP but this card guarantee you a 5/5 which is slightly better than a random 5 drop. Plus a sprint that draws 5 cards. That's at least 7.5 from a slightly better firelands + 7 from sprint + 1.5 from extra card draw + another 1.5 from 5 armor = at least 7.5 mana swing given your opponent also play 10mana-worth of stuff. 10-mana cards are supposed to be high power, I understand, but most other cards either can be played around or the card has some disadvantage in certain circumstances.
this is going to come off salty because i am, but holy moses, this arena meta is bad... so many rng swings, so many busted cards, every counter feels like a highway robbery.