I'm curious what you did to get you to the >3 wins category? I'd call myself an average player. I've gotten to Rank 7 on ladder, usually hover around 10. I cannot seem to 'get good' at Arena. I average 2-3 wins. If I may, what was the big thing you did to get you >3 wins? I watch several of the top streamers but still don't do a great job drafting.
I think that only practice makes you play arena better. This is completely different playstyle compared to ladder. As for me I'm able to take legend nearly each month, but my average arena rate is near 4 wins. Yes I took diamond key one time, and rearly can get 7-8 wins too, but overall I don't like arena much and clearly see that only experience is needed here.
I've gotten 12 wins in arena more times than I can count, and average a solid 5-6 wins per run. There is no way to improve at Arena other than to play it. You can use drafting guides like http://www.heartharena.com/tierlist (there are plugins for deck trackers, too) to help you understand card valuation when drafting, but even they are limited because they understand cards, not decks. Sometimes the best 'value' card just doesn't fit your deck as well as something demonstrably worse, and it's correct to take the worse card. You can't put a number on that easily. Where I still get bit by this is in emphasizing a low curve -- I had this figured out pretty well before KFT, but since KFT came out it seems like most of the powerful cards are appropriately 5-7 mana cost where the 2-3 drops are largely underwhelming. You have to prioritize some of those underwhelming 2-3 drops over something like a Volcanosaur or Bog Creeper sometimes because you simply need to get low cost cards into your deck. If you end up with too many 5+ mana cards, not only do you risk getting tempo'd out in the early game, but late game you can only play 1 card per turn because you have a clunky hand full of 5-7 drops.
Other than that -- being good at Arena requires a similar but different skill set than being good at constructed. Getting to legend is a grind - you just have to get a 'good enough' deck to win 55% of your games, and then grind it out until you get there. You can't grind out an Arena run. Mulliganing is super important, and understanding that sometimes "well, my hand has 3, 4 and 5 drops" is good enough since you want to curve out.. this assumes you are playing a class that doesn't mind hero powering turn 2 like Rogue or Paladin.
Oh, that's another good point. Always pick Rogue and Paladin. If you can't get them, get Mage. If you can't get Mage, get better at arena noob!!! :)
I get at least 3 wins in arena most of the times, even with pretty crappy decks.
There is no big secret out there, in fact you just often pick the most solid card you get and try to have enough curve to be able to keep up fairly well.
I feel the key is the 2 and 4 mana slot. With enough 2 mana cards you can most of the times start building your board since turn 2 (1 with coin), gain the initiative, or at least protect your face against rushers. 4 mana is not far from that, but you'll need to hold attackers back to get the profit out of it. I feel 4 mana cards are the core of any deck that pretends to go long-term battles. They are cheap enough to always see play no matter what, and still powerful enough to be consistent threats even on topdeck games.
That said, you also pretend to get the most solid (aka "have easy to trigger synergy" or "can work alone perfectly") cards out there. Several reliable big drops are a must in most decks, unless you aim to rush (Big Time Racketeer, Bonemare...).
I forgot to finish my point in my earlier post about 'different' skill set. You know how in constructed, for example, if you are playing against Secret Mage, you don't have to fear a Pyroblast to the face (barring Primordial Glyph) because you know what is in their deck? So you don't need to worry about playing around Pyroblast, because it's not in the set of cards you are likely to face. Well, in Arena, you don't know what is in your opponents deck, at all. While you can make a reasonable assumption they didn't pick, say, Weasel Tunneler, the range of possible cards in your opponents deck is very very wide. So, while in constructed, against Rogue you are thinking turn 5 is going to be most likely Cobalt Scalebane and you can try play around it, in arena their range of 5 drops is _huge_. You can't play around all of them, but you need to develop a good idea of what the likely range is and minimize the damage against the most likely segment of that likely range.
Developing skills and thought processes like this can take you from 3 wins to 5 wins to 7 wins, as you change how you think about the game and gain experience with what cards people play and learning to anticipate the Sunborne Val'kyr on turn 5 instead of getting wrecked by it.
After each game, look back at what you could've done differently to change the outcome of each game. Some losses are simply due to luck, but some are actually preventable.
The low hanging fruits are learning how to draft better (great advice from HearthstoneDailyQuests above), mulligan better, ration removals wisely, minion positioning.
Additional advice on drafting: Initially, you'll want to draft cards that lean towards the class' strengths (eg. Rogue is usually stronger as an Aggro/Tempo deck, Mage is usually stronger as a Control deck, etc.). However, it may not always go that way depending on the options offered to you. You will then have to tweak your drafts to lean towards that archetype (eg. If you find yourself drafting a lot of low cost cards as a Mage, you should then avoid high cost AoE board clears and focus on drafting Aggro/Midrange minions and burn Spells instead).
Playing around common cards like Firelands Portal is a must, however at high wins, you also have to play around rarer cards (eg. At 10+ wins, expect every Mage you come across to have 1 or even multiple Flamestrike(s), expect every Rogue to have Vilespine Slayer, etc.). If you continue playing the same way you did at low wins, you won't get very far.
IMO, one of the most underrated skills in arena is knowing when to play safe vs when to go all in. I've seen many players take unnecessary risk, when playing safe would've guaranteed a win, only for the opponent to topdeck an answer, then they simply blame it on luck, even though the outcome could've been prevented altogether. Even more difficult is having the instinct to go all in against all odds at the right time, right before any chance of winning disappears. Almost anyone can pilot a good deck to 10+ wins, but not many players can pilot a garbage deck to 5+ wins. When playing a bad deck, you have to take huge risks to reach high wins.
IMO, one of the most underrated skills in arena is knowing when to play safe vs when to go all in. I've seen many players take unnecessary risk, when playing safe would've guaranteed a win, only for the opponent to topdeck an answer, then they simply blame it on luck, even though the outcome could've been prevented altogether. Even more difficult is having the instinct to go all in against all odds at the right time, right before any chance of winning disappears. Almost anyone can pilot a good deck to 10+ wins, but not many players can pilot a garbage deck to 5+ wins. When playing a bad deck, you have to take huge risks to reach high wins.
+1, and this isn't something that can be taught, it's an art, not a science. It's also referred to as "play your deck, not your hand" or "play to your outs". While the concepts aren't 100% the same, there is a lot of overlap in understanding "well, normally I'm the beatdown, but in this game I need to play a more controlling style and squeeze value out of every card because my opponent is trashing me" or "I can't waste the tempo this turn in playing this value card, it's better to put more minions on the board and just swing face" or "the only way I can win is if I play this card this turn and draw Bonemare within the next two turns"... Step 1 is realizing those scenarios, step 2 is having the guts to act on them. Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes you'll be wrong, but if you trust the process and refine the process rather than focusing on the results, you'll eventually win more games than you currently do.
I get at least 3 wins in arena most of the times, even with pretty crappy decks.
There is no big secret out there, in fact you just often pick the most solid card you get and try to have enough curve to be able to keep up fairly well.
I feel the key is the 2 and 4 mana slot. With enough 2 mana cards you can most of the times start building your board since turn 2 (1 with coin), gain the initiative, or at least protect your face against rushers. 4 mana is not far from that, but you'll need to hold attackers back to get the profit out of it. I feel 4 mana cards are the core of any deck that pretends to go long-term battles. They are cheap enough to always see play no matter what, and still powerful enough to be consistent threats even on topdeck games.
That said, you also pretend to get the most solid (aka "have easy to trigger synergy" or "can work alone perfectly") cards out there. Several reliable big drops are a must in most decks, unless you aim to rush (Big Time Racketeer, Bonemare...).
I would say that looking on a "12 Win decklists" topic, most of decks are hardly rely on lot of 3 mana drops and some MVP like bonemares, scalebanes, weapons, hard removals etc. 2 mana minions are not so efficient to draw them much
I get at least 3 wins in arena most of the times, even with pretty crappy decks.
There is no big secret out there, in fact you just often pick the most solid card you get and try to have enough curve to be able to keep up fairly well.
I feel the key is the 2 and 4 mana slot. With enough 2 mana cards you can most of the times start building your board since turn 2 (1 with coin), gain the initiative, or at least protect your face against rushers. 4 mana is not far from that, but you'll need to hold attackers back to get the profit out of it. I feel 4 mana cards are the core of any deck that pretends to go long-term battles. They are cheap enough to always see play no matter what, and still powerful enough to be consistent threats even on topdeck games.
That said, you also pretend to get the most solid (aka "have easy to trigger synergy" or "can work alone perfectly") cards out there. Several reliable big drops are a must in most decks, unless you aim to rush (Big Time Racketeer, Bonemare...).
I would say that looking on a "12 Win decklists" topic, most of decks are hardly rely on lot of 3 mana drops and some MVP like bonemares, scalebanes, weapons, hard removals etc. 2 mana minions are not so efficient to draw them much
Hmmm, maybe, yeah.
It's also tru it depends on what you get, often I get many fairly good 2-drops, while pretty damn bad 3-drops, so I might be biased on that.
IOh, that's another good point. Always pick Rogue and Paladin. If you can't get them, get Mage. If you can't get Mage, get better at arena noob!!! :)
I disagree about this.Each class except Warrior is playable.
100% agree, all classes except Warrior are playable. And any class, even Warrior, can give you a 12 win deck. But Rogue and Paladin are best if you want to have highest chances at getting a good deck. Stats back it up.
Ppl gave u many tips already, i would give u one very specific for KFT meta:
Control the board. More than anything on T6>T7, but generally all game. DO NOT let an enemy minion out for your opponent to T7 Bonemare it, if u can avoid it ;-) Only do that when u want to Hex it turn later or something, but thats another layer of strategy. Generally, just try to keep control of the board, if u can. All most powerful cards in KFT require u to have a board to have the intended impact, that obviously goes for your opponent as well, so if he doesnt have a board, the OP cards aint so OP anymore.
I usually hit like 3-6 wins myself (when I bother) and I basically just kept picking the same classes over and over, familiarized myself with how good cards are, and treated it like a coherent deckbuilding experience with random cards
"I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without as much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"
What pushed me to the "next level" was posting all my replays here in a blog-type thread. Not only did I get tips about my drafts and gameplay from the community here, going back over every game (either descriptively or by watching a replay) helped me spot not just blatant mistakes, but also my plays that were good, but not as good as other options. Those are the plays that get you to the next level. Avoiding misplays gets you to ~3; avoiding the sub-optimal plays gets you into "Tier 2," as I like to call it.
TL;DR - record your games, watch them back, spot your mistakes, stop making them.
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Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
These are all fantastic tips. Thanks a ton. I've read each and every post. It's going to be practice! Also, the co-op is a brilliant idea. Going to check that out!
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Hi all,
I'm curious what you did to get you to the >3 wins category? I'd call myself an average player. I've gotten to Rank 7 on ladder, usually hover around 10. I cannot seem to 'get good' at Arena. I average 2-3 wins. If I may, what was the big thing you did to get you >3 wins? I watch several of the top streamers but still don't do a great job drafting.
Thanks.
I'm not on the "next level" myself, but with a very good deck I can make 5 to 7 wins, thanks to HearthArena.
Practice. Just playing more and building experience with the fundamentals should get you past the 3 win mark.
Also just focusing on a smaller number of classes is helpful to improving your familiarity with them. This should also boost your win rate.
At 5 or 6 wins there's usually a big barrier to get to 7 wins.
Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
Get lucky with 1- and 2-drops. Curvestone.
I think that only practice makes you play arena better. This is completely different playstyle compared to ladder. As for me I'm able to take legend nearly each month, but my average arena rate is near 4 wins. Yes I took diamond key one time, and rearly can get 7-8 wins too, but overall I don't like arena much and clearly see that only experience is needed here.
I've gotten 12 wins in arena more times than I can count, and average a solid 5-6 wins per run. There is no way to improve at Arena other than to play it. You can use drafting guides like http://www.heartharena.com/tierlist (there are plugins for deck trackers, too) to help you understand card valuation when drafting, but even they are limited because they understand cards, not decks. Sometimes the best 'value' card just doesn't fit your deck as well as something demonstrably worse, and it's correct to take the worse card. You can't put a number on that easily. Where I still get bit by this is in emphasizing a low curve -- I had this figured out pretty well before KFT, but since KFT came out it seems like most of the powerful cards are appropriately 5-7 mana cost where the 2-3 drops are largely underwhelming. You have to prioritize some of those underwhelming 2-3 drops over something like a Volcanosaur or Bog Creeper sometimes because you simply need to get low cost cards into your deck. If you end up with too many 5+ mana cards, not only do you risk getting tempo'd out in the early game, but late game you can only play 1 card per turn because you have a clunky hand full of 5-7 drops.
Other than that -- being good at Arena requires a similar but different skill set than being good at constructed. Getting to legend is a grind - you just have to get a 'good enough' deck to win 55% of your games, and then grind it out until you get there. You can't grind out an Arena run. Mulliganing is super important, and understanding that sometimes "well, my hand has 3, 4 and 5 drops" is good enough since you want to curve out.. this assumes you are playing a class that doesn't mind hero powering turn 2 like Rogue or Paladin.
Oh, that's another good point. Always pick Rogue and Paladin. If you can't get them, get Mage. If you can't get Mage, get better at arena noob!!! :)
Catch me on YouTube and Twitch: https://www.youtube.com/c/Hindered https://www.twitch.tv/hindered_
My take on the Patches Raza Bonemare Creeper nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysTG125huM
I get at least 3 wins in arena most of the times, even with pretty crappy decks.
There is no big secret out there, in fact you just often pick the most solid card you get and try to have enough curve to be able to keep up fairly well.
I feel the key is the 2 and 4 mana slot. With enough 2 mana cards you can most of the times start building your board since turn 2 (1 with coin), gain the initiative, or at least protect your face against rushers. 4 mana is not far from that, but you'll need to hold attackers back to get the profit out of it. I feel 4 mana cards are the core of any deck that pretends to go long-term battles. They are cheap enough to always see play no matter what, and still powerful enough to be consistent threats even on topdeck games.
That said, you also pretend to get the most solid (aka "have easy to trigger synergy" or "can work alone perfectly") cards out there. Several reliable big drops are a must in most decks, unless you aim to rush (Big Time Racketeer, Bonemare...).
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
I forgot to finish my point in my earlier post about 'different' skill set. You know how in constructed, for example, if you are playing against Secret Mage, you don't have to fear a Pyroblast to the face (barring Primordial Glyph) because you know what is in their deck? So you don't need to worry about playing around Pyroblast, because it's not in the set of cards you are likely to face. Well, in Arena, you don't know what is in your opponents deck, at all. While you can make a reasonable assumption they didn't pick, say, Weasel Tunneler, the range of possible cards in your opponents deck is very very wide. So, while in constructed, against Rogue you are thinking turn 5 is going to be most likely Cobalt Scalebane and you can try play around it, in arena their range of 5 drops is _huge_. You can't play around all of them, but you need to develop a good idea of what the likely range is and minimize the damage against the most likely segment of that likely range.
Developing skills and thought processes like this can take you from 3 wins to 5 wins to 7 wins, as you change how you think about the game and gain experience with what cards people play and learning to anticipate the Sunborne Val'kyr on turn 5 instead of getting wrecked by it.
Catch me on YouTube and Twitch: https://www.youtube.com/c/Hindered https://www.twitch.tv/hindered_
My take on the Patches Raza Bonemare Creeper nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysTG125huM
Is that possible to have 2-3 wins average? You must be very bad at hearthstone... you need to think, thats all.
After each game, look back at what you could've done differently to change the outcome of each game. Some losses are simply due to luck, but some are actually preventable.
The low hanging fruits are learning how to draft better (great advice from HearthstoneDailyQuests above), mulligan better, ration removals wisely, minion positioning.
Additional advice on drafting: Initially, you'll want to draft cards that lean towards the class' strengths (eg. Rogue is usually stronger as an Aggro/Tempo deck, Mage is usually stronger as a Control deck, etc.). However, it may not always go that way depending on the options offered to you. You will then have to tweak your drafts to lean towards that archetype (eg. If you find yourself drafting a lot of low cost cards as a Mage, you should then avoid high cost AoE board clears and focus on drafting Aggro/Midrange minions and burn Spells instead).
Playing around common cards like Firelands Portal is a must, however at high wins, you also have to play around rarer cards (eg. At 10+ wins, expect every Mage you come across to have 1 or even multiple Flamestrike(s), expect every Rogue to have Vilespine Slayer, etc.). If you continue playing the same way you did at low wins, you won't get very far.
IMO, one of the most underrated skills in arena is knowing when to play safe vs when to go all in. I've seen many players take unnecessary risk, when playing safe would've guaranteed a win, only for the opponent to topdeck an answer, then they simply blame it on luck, even though the outcome could've been prevented altogether. Even more difficult is having the instinct to go all in against all odds at the right time, right before any chance of winning disappears. Almost anyone can pilot a good deck to 10+ wins, but not many players can pilot a garbage deck to 5+ wins. When playing a bad deck, you have to take huge risks to reach high wins.
Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
Catch me on YouTube and Twitch: https://www.youtube.com/c/Hindered https://www.twitch.tv/hindered_
My take on the Patches Raza Bonemare Creeper nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysTG125huM
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
Catch me on YouTube and Twitch: https://www.youtube.com/c/Hindered https://www.twitch.tv/hindered_
My take on the Patches Raza Bonemare Creeper nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysTG125huM
Ppl gave u many tips already, i would give u one very specific for KFT meta:
Control the board. More than anything on T6>T7, but generally all game. DO NOT let an enemy minion out for your opponent to T7 Bonemare it, if u can avoid it ;-) Only do that when u want to Hex it turn later or something, but thats another layer of strategy. Generally, just try to keep control of the board, if u can. All most powerful cards in KFT require u to have a board to have the intended impact, that obviously goes for your opponent as well, so if he doesnt have a board, the OP cards aint so OP anymore.
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I usually hit like 3-6 wins myself (when I bother) and I basically just kept picking the same classes over and over, familiarized myself with how good cards are, and treated it like a coherent deckbuilding experience with random cards
What pushed me to the "next level" was posting all my replays here in a blog-type thread. Not only did I get tips about my drafts and gameplay from the community here, going back over every game (either descriptively or by watching a replay) helped me spot not just blatant mistakes, but also my plays that were good, but not as good as other options. Those are the plays that get you to the next level. Avoiding misplays gets you to ~3; avoiding the sub-optimal plays gets you into "Tier 2," as I like to call it.
TL;DR - record your games, watch them back, spot your mistakes, stop making them.
Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
Guys,
These are all fantastic tips. Thanks a ton. I've read each and every post. It's going to be practice! Also, the co-op is a brilliant idea. Going to check that out!