I guess I'm average player because my normal run is about 4-3, even if I was 3-0.
For now the only 2 times I beat my own record was just for the draft, awesome deck awesome results. But I'm not bad at drafting, it just I get poor cards so often and only that 2 times I was able to draft a good deck with synergy, mana curve and everything good. The first one was 7-3 and the second 6-3 both lost for extremly bad luck, that unfair start from some people who draw the perfect first combo.
Today I draft a mage deck and is really bad, not 1 single polymorph, not 1 single pyroblast, not 1 single, not 1 single fireball, no flamestrike, no frostball, no blizzard .... just bad and really bad secrets. And that's not all, the minions are so bad I don't even have more than 3 combos, not because I'm can't draft properly, the draft was so bad that I can't belive it.
I know that not every draft will be awesome, but my normal draft is this way, bad cards over other bad cards. No legendary, no best cards from class, no good combos ....... how can I get more than 6-7 wins this way?. And even if I play agains a high draft .... I play with the same guy another time so 2 loss for free, that's unlucky.
I can post some draft to get some feedback, probably I'm not the best but I know decent information to at least get 6 wins everyrun but the cards doesn't help me to get that number. When I'm watching trump's videos he always get some good draft, maybe I'm unlucky I don't know.
I think anyone who tells you yes is lying. Getting 1-3 wins is pretty much what you can expect unless you pull a good draft or face only people who have bad drafts.
I'm not sure 6-7 wins every single run is realistic, I've seen good players like Amaz bust in the arena with only 3 wins. I imagine that sometimes you just get bad cards.
Personally, one of the things that the pros are far better at than I is understanding what cards can compliment the other cards they've drafted. What I mean by this is that what I might call a bad draft with "bad card choices" a pro might be able to pick better more complementary cards.
hmm.. well I've been playing arena 'seriously' for the last two weeks. the first 2 days was 4-3, after that was 6-3. I don't remember the runs themselves though.
this week has been relatively solid. ive had 1 1-3, a few 6-3's, 1 7-3, and the rest 8-3's, granted i do feel I got lucky with one of them (e.g., pally with no true silver, 1 hammer of wrath, one consecrate, and I went 8-3)
i realize now its monday so maybe I'm including the latter half of last week, I don't know. im really tired.
with that said, yeah, you can get some simply terrible drafts and from the jump be facings people with superior decks, in those cases you lose, but *shrugs shoulders* just got to make the best out of the cards you're dealt.
edit - to help make more sense of that I said, I run probably 4'ish arenas per day, with exceptions to today, as my semester just started.
Every run? No. Even the best arena players go 0 wins on occasion. It's absolutely possible to average 6-7 wins though - meaning if 1 run I go 3 wins and the next I go 9 - I've averaged 6 wins for those 2 runs. I've played over 250 arenas and average just about 6 wins. I'm not the best player - many others average 7+ - but I've improved immensely since I first started playing.
I recommend using a site like arenamastery.com to track your results - this will help you determine which classes you're best with and which you struggle against. Posting your drafts can certainly be helpful - but remember that drafting is only the beginning - you still have to play the games and the correct strategy can vary greatly based on what cards you got and what your opponent is doing.
Bad luck runs will happen. You'll get terrible drafts and bad matchups and sometimes there's nothing you can do. However, those runs are the exception - if you're playing correctly and valuing your cards correctly you should go 4+ wins in a majority of runs. If that isn't happening, you need to reevaluate your strategies. That process starts with the draft, what are your favorite cards, least-favorite and why? What do your curves look like? Are you getting enough draw? Enough removal? How are your games playing out? How are you losing? Are you getting rushed down with a flood of minions? Is your opponent getting too many value trades and depleting your hand?
After I draft a deck I like to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the deck before I start my first game. Does it lack board clear? I'll trade more to maintain stability. Is it heavy with early-game minions? I'll go for the face more and try to end the fight before my opponent can respond. After a game I'll evaluate what worked and what didn't - whether I made any mistakes and how to avoid them. While it's easy to blame losses on luck - and sometimes it is the case - it doesn't actually accomplish anything, you won't get any better from thinking about that. Always look for things you could have done differently, if you determine that no options were better than the plays you made - just move on to the next game, but never just dismiss a loss as bad luck without looking at it closely.
A bad run for me is 3 wins. I generally only do worse when trying to get better with a class that I know I don't play well in arena.
That said, anything more than 5 wins is a good run for me. There are some classes where I'm better than reaching that mark than others, but it's by no means a given.
Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter are probably my best classes. I know what I'm drafting for.
I've been tracking my arena history on arena mastery for 6 months, you can see all my stats here: http://arenas.ws/v5oc
My average is 5.69 wins per run after 112 arena runs, but that includes all the classes (I tend to mix it up a lot, just for fun). My best class is warrior which has a 6.69 average after 16 runs. I only average 4 wins per arena with warlock, after 7 runs.
If you go to that link and check out my arena history, you'll see that even though 6 is my average, that doesn't mean I get 6 every run. In fact, a couple days ago I only got 1 win with a warlock deck (I've thankfully never gotten 0 wins). Those runs where you go 12 really helps to push up your average. That site is really cool by the way, you can see the entire breakdown of my stats. You can see exactly how many times I've gotten each number of wins. Also, if you click an individual arena run, you can even see exactly which cards I used and which cards I had to pick from in the draft. Check it out.
I just ended the mage run .... not sorprise with the 2-3. Far away the worst deck I ever draft, no 1 single good spell and no 1 single good card.
Im stuck at wait to play arena, only 2 times get my gold back with 6 and 7 wins. Is boring and annoying for me since arena is the best mode for me, I enjoy it so much and is really fun but I can't play it nonstop.
After few days and few quest I can play 1 or 2 arena but with results like my last one 2-3 isn't fun. My last run was so annoying, people making mistakes and playing bad cards defeat me with no problem but I wasn't able to do anything.
I wan't at least get 4-5 wins and "GET THE MONEY BACK" 50 gold + 1 pack but I can't even do that. I did a second account to play more arena but this is quite strange. On my second account I get the 7 and 6 wins, and in my main account I'm doomed, can't get more than 4 wins.
Trump is one of the players I follow and see every single day, learning, value, synergy, strategy, draft, but even on my first arena I get 4-3 so I don't see any improvement if I put out of the table the 7 and 6 wins run.
I know a 7 run is something really good, I don't want to get 7 wins every run for now, but at least 5 wins, isn't much. But my last runs ...... fuck.
When I watch arena runs from Trump I always try to practice too, pausing the video every draft and make my selection, 90% of my picks are the same as Trump with any hero, but at least on twitch or youtuve he always get some good cards, only few (4, maybe 5) runs with poor cards like my normal run.
Watch how the pros draft like say, Trump. I thought I was good at analyzing and picking considering I'm a veteran at MTG but seeing from someone else's perspective can help you improve by a lot. I highly recommend going through his YouTube channel and watch his draft videos. First just watch and then try to guess what to pick given the 3 cards option before he made them and see if you made the same choice. I still do it with starting hand scenarios.
One last thing, stop trying to put the blame on something else or trying to make excuses. RNG is RNG but everything else is up to yourself. Make the best out of the situation. If you keep looking for the negatives, you'll never get better.
EDIT: My point here was to say that yes, play mistakes do contribute towards game losses. However, there are also games where even making 0 play mistakes does not mean that you will not lose the game.
Oh absolutely, I just wanted to show that purely from the nature of the arena system the majority of players are bound to get three or less wins and to achieve "just five wins", three others won't make it - for whatever reasons. Even Trump lost 0-3 that one time if I remember, however good players are able to make the most out of the draws they get.
Looking at success in arena from a purely statistical point of view
Three losses and you are out. To win, someone has to lose. So if you just consider an average player who is in the exact middle of the curve of distribution of skill, winning or losing is on average, a coin toss. Applying these rules, half the time you will get to 3 wins before you get to 3 losses. Or, 50% of the time you will end on 0,1,2 wins. 50% of the time you will end up on 3-12 wins. The chance of flipping your way from 3-12, assuming you're average, is extremely low, although obviously those rare occasions raise the average of 2.5 to probably somewhere around 3-3.5 (my probability maths skills are rusty).
So my point is, if you're averaging 3.5 wins or more I would say you're above average skill in Arena. That said, in response to the topic of this thread, yes 7 average is possible, no 7 every time is not possible. if you're around 2.5 or lower average, you're below the average skill of the pool of players, accept it and move on (or study and practice and improve).
From my personal experience, 1-5 are usually warm ups because you mostly face beginners. Mistakes are very common so it's not very difficult to pass this range. Sometimes you run into very strong opponents and ended up 2-3 or 3-3 but that doesn't happen very often.
From 5 - 7, games get a little bit tougher, you are facing moderately good players with a decent deck. Opponents do make some small mistakes here and there so try capitalising on them and control the game.
From 7-10, opponent are really good, this is the range where most veteran arena players arrive. It's also where your deck quality matters the most. Games are generally close; you have to play perfectly and sometimes hope for a good draw to close the game.
From 10 - 12, you face Legend card back opponents or those with ridiculous decks like 4-5 Fireballs, 4 Fire Elementals and stuff like that. Your deck needs to be as crazy as them to stand a chance. Occasionally you get paired down to people with lower wins and get some unexpectedly easy 12 win runs.
Every run is not possible. Even the absolute best player in the world is going to get that draft w/ Wisp offered 20 times. Even though they may go 2-3 wins where 95% of us would go 3 straight losses, it's still gonna be a poor run for them. But, good players will offset that run w/ a 10-12 win run, so yes, it's entirely possible to have a 6 win average. It's a lot harder than the "piece of cake, just draft Flamestrike" crowd lets on, though.
Doesn't Trump like always get 7+ wins? Or does he not upload the bad runs? : P
He usually gets 7+ wins, but I've seen him upload a 0-3 run I believe. He is just a more experienced player that knows how to better adapt to a bad deck so it affects him less.
every run? No, even the best player in the world will have a 0-3 run once in a blue moon.. In fairness, getting past the first 5 games is usually like 40/60, but it balances out as if you are a good player and get past the first 5 you'll likely win 8+ (many times i'll go 5-2 then 9+-3).
This is because you will get opponents with no plan to go 8+ wins they have just built a rush deck with a couple big creatures and are playing everything they draw, going face. You being smart and planning for 8+ wins have created a decent mid/end game with just enough low creatures to get through the start, without this you wont be able to beat the other mages/druids/paladins etc. that managed to make it through the first 5 wins but it does mean that if someone going face is lucky they may win regardless of how much better you are than them.
I have seen Trump predicting 12 wins and going 3-3, I have seen Kripp going 3-3 when he saw combos what he basically never sees even in constructed play. So bad luck definitely exists, so you cannot be sure about every single run. On the other hand average can be very high if you are a skilled player.
Also many people watches streamers, especially Trump. What I suggest is that you should watch as many good players as possible, not only your favourite. They all play a bit differently and when you see more approaches, you will develop quicker and you might find your style quicker.
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I guess I'm average player because my normal run is about 4-3, even if I was 3-0.
For now the only 2 times I beat my own record was just for the draft, awesome deck awesome results. But I'm not bad at drafting, it just I get poor cards so often and only that 2 times I was able to draft a good deck with synergy, mana curve and everything good. The first one was 7-3 and the second 6-3 both lost for extremly bad luck, that unfair start from some people who draw the perfect first combo.
Today I draft a mage deck and is really bad, not 1 single polymorph, not 1 single pyroblast, not 1 single, not 1 single fireball, no flamestrike, no frostball, no blizzard .... just bad and really bad secrets. And that's not all, the minions are so bad I don't even have more than 3 combos, not because I'm can't draft properly, the draft was so bad that I can't belive it.
I know that not every draft will be awesome, but my normal draft is this way, bad cards over other bad cards. No legendary, no best cards from class, no good combos ....... how can I get more than 6-7 wins this way?. And even if I play agains a high draft .... I play with the same guy another time so 2 loss for free, that's unlucky.
I can post some draft to get some feedback, probably I'm not the best but I know decent information to at least get 6 wins everyrun but the cards doesn't help me to get that number. When I'm watching trump's videos he always get some good draft, maybe I'm unlucky I don't know.
I think anyone who tells you yes is lying. Getting 1-3 wins is pretty much what you can expect unless you pull a good draft or face only people who have bad drafts.
I'm not sure 6-7 wins every single run is realistic, I've seen good players like Amaz bust in the arena with only 3 wins. I imagine that sometimes you just get bad cards.
Personally, one of the things that the pros are far better at than I is understanding what cards can compliment the other cards they've drafted. What I mean by this is that what I might call a bad draft with "bad card choices" a pro might be able to pick better more complementary cards.
A skilled player can get their money back and possibly more almost every arena run.
hmm.. well I've been playing arena 'seriously' for the last two weeks. the first 2 days was 4-3, after that was 6-3. I don't remember the runs themselves though.
this week has been relatively solid. ive had 1 1-3, a few 6-3's, 1 7-3, and the rest 8-3's, granted i do feel I got lucky with one of them (e.g., pally with no true silver, 1 hammer of wrath, one consecrate, and I went 8-3)
i realize now its monday so maybe I'm including the latter half of last week, I don't know. im really tired.
with that said, yeah, you can get some simply terrible drafts and from the jump be facings people with superior decks, in those cases you lose, but *shrugs shoulders* just got to make the best out of the cards you're dealt.
edit - to help make more sense of that I said, I run probably 4'ish arenas per day, with exceptions to today, as my semester just started.
I have seen many streams where the they win 12. My best run I won 4 in a row and then lost 2. My end result was 5-3. Practice makes perfect.
Every run? No. Even the best arena players go 0 wins on occasion. It's absolutely possible to average 6-7 wins though - meaning if 1 run I go 3 wins and the next I go 9 - I've averaged 6 wins for those 2 runs. I've played over 250 arenas and average just about 6 wins. I'm not the best player - many others average 7+ - but I've improved immensely since I first started playing.
I recommend using a site like arenamastery.com to track your results - this will help you determine which classes you're best with and which you struggle against. Posting your drafts can certainly be helpful - but remember that drafting is only the beginning - you still have to play the games and the correct strategy can vary greatly based on what cards you got and what your opponent is doing.
Bad luck runs will happen. You'll get terrible drafts and bad matchups and sometimes there's nothing you can do. However, those runs are the exception - if you're playing correctly and valuing your cards correctly you should go 4+ wins in a majority of runs. If that isn't happening, you need to reevaluate your strategies. That process starts with the draft, what are your favorite cards, least-favorite and why? What do your curves look like? Are you getting enough draw? Enough removal? How are your games playing out? How are you losing? Are you getting rushed down with a flood of minions? Is your opponent getting too many value trades and depleting your hand?
After I draft a deck I like to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the deck before I start my first game. Does it lack board clear? I'll trade more to maintain stability. Is it heavy with early-game minions? I'll go for the face more and try to end the fight before my opponent can respond. After a game I'll evaluate what worked and what didn't - whether I made any mistakes and how to avoid them. While it's easy to blame losses on luck - and sometimes it is the case - it doesn't actually accomplish anything, you won't get any better from thinking about that. Always look for things you could have done differently, if you determine that no options were better than the plays you made - just move on to the next game, but never just dismiss a loss as bad luck without looking at it closely.
A bad run for me is 3 wins. I generally only do worse when trying to get better with a class that I know I don't play well in arena.
That said, anything more than 5 wins is a good run for me. There are some classes where I'm better than reaching that mark than others, but it's by no means a given.
Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter are probably my best classes. I know what I'm drafting for.
I've been tracking my arena history on arena mastery for 6 months, you can see all my stats here: http://arenas.ws/v5oc
My average is 5.69 wins per run after 112 arena runs, but that includes all the classes (I tend to mix it up a lot, just for fun). My best class is warrior which has a 6.69 average after 16 runs. I only average 4 wins per arena with warlock, after 7 runs.
If you go to that link and check out my arena history, you'll see that even though 6 is my average, that doesn't mean I get 6 every run. In fact, a couple days ago I only got 1 win with a warlock deck (I've thankfully never gotten 0 wins). Those runs where you go 12 really helps to push up your average. That site is really cool by the way, you can see the entire breakdown of my stats. You can see exactly how many times I've gotten each number of wins. Also, if you click an individual arena run, you can even see exactly which cards I used and which cards I had to pick from in the draft. Check it out.
I just ended the mage run .... not sorprise with the 2-3. Far away the worst deck I ever draft, no 1 single good spell and no 1 single good card.
Im stuck at wait to play arena, only 2 times get my gold back with 6 and 7 wins. Is boring and annoying for me since arena is the best mode for me, I enjoy it so much and is really fun but I can't play it nonstop.
After few days and few quest I can play 1 or 2 arena but with results like my last one 2-3 isn't fun. My last run was so annoying, people making mistakes and playing bad cards defeat me with no problem but I wasn't able to do anything.
I wan't at least get 4-5 wins and "GET THE MONEY BACK" 50 gold + 1 pack but I can't even do that. I did a second account to play more arena but this is quite strange. On my second account I get the 7 and 6 wins, and in my main account I'm doomed, can't get more than 4 wins.
Trump is one of the players I follow and see every single day, learning, value, synergy, strategy, draft, but even on my first arena I get 4-3 so I don't see any improvement if I put out of the table the 7 and 6 wins run.
I know a 7 run is something really good, I don't want to get 7 wins every run for now, but at least 5 wins, isn't much. But my last runs ...... fuck.
When I watch arena runs from Trump I always try to practice too, pausing the video every draft and make my selection, 90% of my picks are the same as Trump with any hero, but at least on twitch or youtuve he always get some good cards, only few (4, maybe 5) runs with poor cards like my normal run.
If they made mistakes, played bad cards and you still lost, then your mistakes or cards must have been even worse.
Five wins isn't much? THREE wins is the median if you look at the distribution: http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Arena#Number_of_wins
That means every second guy will NOT make it past that mark and your "not much 5 wins" is achieved by less than every fourth player.
Watch how the pros draft like say, Trump. I thought I was good at analyzing and picking considering I'm a veteran at MTG but seeing from someone else's perspective can help you improve by a lot. I highly recommend going through his YouTube channel and watch his draft videos. First just watch and then try to guess what to pick given the 3 cards option before he made them and see if you made the same choice. I still do it with starting hand scenarios.
One last thing, stop trying to put the blame on something else or trying to make excuses. RNG is RNG but everything else is up to yourself. Make the best out of the situation. If you keep looking for the negatives, you'll never get better.
The truth about Illuminati.dec
Oh absolutely, I just wanted to show that purely from the nature of the arena system the majority of players are bound to get three or less wins and to achieve "just five wins", three others won't make it - for whatever reasons. Even Trump lost 0-3 that one time if I remember, however good players are able to make the most out of the draws they get.
Looking at success in arena from a purely statistical point of view
Three losses and you are out. To win, someone has to lose. So if you just consider an average player who is in the exact middle of the curve of distribution of skill, winning or losing is on average, a coin toss. Applying these rules, half the time you will get to 3 wins before you get to 3 losses. Or, 50% of the time you will end on 0,1,2 wins. 50% of the time you will end up on 3-12 wins. The chance of flipping your way from 3-12, assuming you're average, is extremely low, although obviously those rare occasions raise the average of 2.5 to probably somewhere around 3-3.5 (my probability maths skills are rusty).
So my point is, if you're averaging 3.5 wins or more I would say you're above average skill in Arena. That said, in response to the topic of this thread, yes 7 average is possible, no 7 every time is not possible. if you're around 2.5 or lower average, you're below the average skill of the pool of players, accept it and move on (or study and practice and improve).
Sursisyor
How interesting
From my personal experience, 1-5 are usually warm ups because you mostly face beginners. Mistakes are very common so it's not very difficult to pass this range. Sometimes you run into very strong opponents and ended up 2-3 or 3-3 but that doesn't happen very often.
From 5 - 7, games get a little bit tougher, you are facing moderately good players with a decent deck. Opponents do make some small mistakes here and there so try capitalising on them and control the game.
From 7-10, opponent are really good, this is the range where most veteran arena players arrive. It's also where your deck quality matters the most. Games are generally close; you have to play perfectly and sometimes hope for a good draw to close the game.
From 10 - 12, you face Legend card back opponents or those with ridiculous decks like 4-5 Fireballs, 4 Fire Elementals and stuff like that. Your deck needs to be as crazy as them to stand a chance. Occasionally you get paired down to people with lower wins and get some unexpectedly easy 12 win runs.
Yes its possible, you only need more practise at deck building and limited gameplay, who differs from constructed gameplay.
Every run is not possible. Even the absolute best player in the world is going to get that draft w/ Wisp offered 20 times. Even though they may go 2-3 wins where 95% of us would go 3 straight losses, it's still gonna be a poor run for them. But, good players will offset that run w/ a 10-12 win run, so yes, it's entirely possible to have a 6 win average. It's a lot harder than the "piece of cake, just draft Flamestrike" crowd lets on, though.
He usually gets 7+ wins, but I've seen him upload a 0-3 run I believe. He is just a more experienced player that knows how to better adapt to a bad deck so it affects him less.
every run? No, even the best player in the world will have a 0-3 run once in a blue moon.. In fairness, getting past the first 5 games is usually like 40/60, but it balances out as if you are a good player and get past the first 5 you'll likely win 8+ (many times i'll go 5-2 then 9+-3).
This is because you will get opponents with no plan to go 8+ wins they have just built a rush deck with a couple big creatures and are playing everything they draw, going face. You being smart and planning for 8+ wins have created a decent mid/end game with just enough low creatures to get through the start, without this you wont be able to beat the other mages/druids/paladins etc. that managed to make it through the first 5 wins but it does mean that if someone going face is lucky they may win regardless of how much better you are than them.
I have seen Trump predicting 12 wins and going 3-3, I have seen Kripp going 3-3 when he saw combos what he basically never sees even in constructed play. So bad luck definitely exists, so you cannot be sure about every single run. On the other hand average can be very high if you are a skilled player.
Also many people watches streamers, especially Trump. What I suggest is that you should watch as many good players as possible, not only your favourite. They all play a bit differently and when you see more approaches, you will develop quicker and you might find your style quicker.