In my last arena draft, I had Flamestrike come up 5 times . . . i ended up taking 3 of them. Part of me thinks even 3 is too many, but this might just be my own constructed bias coming though. At the very least, 3 Flamestike cards pretty much guarantee I'll have one in my hand when I need it, but it will also likely put one in my hand early when I don't. What is the right number for high mana cost spells like this in arena? Note: for the last 2 Flamestrike choices, I already had 2 Pyroblast, which will be eating up late game turns.
Well, having at least 3 Lightning Storms in a shaman deck before even getting halfway through your deck is more than good enough to beat me, especially if you also drop an Illidan Stormrage...
Oh yeah, also dropping 2 flame strikes within your first 10 cards ought to kill your opponent too. WTF today Arena??? I saved minions for turn 7... then dropped them all after the first flamestrike thinking - no way he/she has 2 flamestrikes in the first 10 cards... Game was over.
I never really play around the third flamestrike. If he's got it, you're in really bad shape anyway, might as well give yourself the best chance of winning right now. While powerful when you can curve out and draw them when you need them, you are basically sacrificing a certain percentage of lost games where flamestrike doesn't save your sorry ass against 5 toughness minions and you clog up your hand all game long. Consistency for power will get you up to 7-9 wins, then you'll need luck to go the distance. Pyroblast on the other hand is a card I never want two of.
I hardly ever even want one Pyroblast as most games that is is actually useable in are games that you are winning anyway. The only exception is if you have a strong early game and no real late game you can finish someone off that you had almost dead. 2 certainly is overkill.
I think you're right about the Pyroblast I am currently 8-1 in my arena run with this deck, and I think I've used it for the kill exactly once. The 3 Flamestrikes seem to be about perfect, more than once I've been able to clear on turn 7, watch my opponent empty his hand on turn 8 and then clear the board again with a second Flamestrike, it gives me so much board/card advantage that the Pyroblast becomes useless.
Looks like 3 is really ideal, though its soooo rare to get 3. 8-0 currently with this deck .2 games won alexstraza, 4 flamestrikes, and 2 leeroy)). 12-1 so far
3 flamestrikes would be the most i would be looking to have, there comes a point where there is just no value from flamestriking more than twice really.
It certainly sux when the opponent has 2 5+ health minions on the board and your there sitting with your flamestrikes in your hand. 3 tops Id say but 2 is the optimal amount imo as long as you have some good single target removals like fireball/polymorph/frostbolt, needs balance between those spells.
I have had 3 FS and 3 Blizzards and i went 11-3 they deck was all around prettty bad (I rated 7 Wins) but I guess I got lucky! I would say 3 is the max
1 Flamestrike is ok. 2 is the absolute maximum to have without hurting your deck beyond repair. Flamestike is a scrub stomper. You NEVER going to get any reasonable value out of Flamestike versus a good opponent, and if your draft is reasonably curved, you'll almost always have a better play, so your 123213123 Flamestrikes will just rot in your hand.
Frostbolts and Fireballs you pick all you can. Flamestrikes - not so much.
Quick example: this is 12-0 arena draft. Ogre, Archmage, Sunwalker, Flamestrike and Pyroblast are the last 5 cards.
Gotta love RNG. And your next draft youll have to choose from wisp and shieldbearer 15 times. With 2 pyros, I wouldn't go with any more than 3 flame strikes unless the other cards are absolute trash.
I once drafted 5 water elementals and had the chance to have had 2 more. I ended up going 11 wins with that deck as well because no one could get through the water elemental wall.
My first 12 win arena was with 4 Flamestrikes. But that was back in beta when the average area play skill may have been lower.
If you're having a close fight for board control with a mage and they get reasonable value out of their first Flamestrike, then you often have to just play like they don't have a second Flamestrike in order to continue contesting the board - if that second Flamestrike gets great value because of that then you've lost the game.
I agree 100%. I always play the odds like that, and it usually works out in my favor. However, it sure is annoying when you assume the 2nd lightning storm in the first 12 cards is probably it, and then you get hit with a 3rd... same thing when you get flamestruck on turn 7... then again on turn 8 - with a mage who had no card draw in the deck up to that point... so only 9 cards drawn. That was 2 games in a row - so the Arena run was ended very abruptly. But I will still play the odds after a flame strike because that so seldom happens.
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In my last arena draft, I had Flamestrike come up 5 times . . . i ended up taking 3 of them. Part of me thinks even 3 is too many, but this might just be my own constructed bias coming though. At the very least, 3 Flamestike cards pretty much guarantee I'll have one in my hand when I need it, but it will also likely put one in my hand early when I don't. What is the right number for high mana cost spells like this in arena? Note: for the last 2 Flamestrike choices, I already had 2 Pyroblast, which will be eating up late game turns.
I would say 30 Flamestrike cards would definitely be too many. I would probably be ok with 29 as long as the other card helped with my early game.
Well, having at least 3 Lightning Storms in a shaman deck before even getting halfway through your deck is more than good enough to beat me, especially if you also drop an Illidan Stormrage...
Oh yeah, also dropping 2 flame strikes within your first 10 cards ought to kill your opponent too. WTF today Arena??? I saved minions for turn 7... then dropped them all after the first flamestrike thinking - no way he/she has 2 flamestrikes in the first 10 cards... Game was over.
I never really play around the third flamestrike. If he's got it, you're in really bad shape anyway, might as well give yourself the best chance of winning right now. While powerful when you can curve out and draw them when you need them, you are basically sacrificing a certain percentage of lost games where flamestrike doesn't save your sorry ass against 5 toughness minions and you clog up your hand all game long. Consistency for power will get you up to 7-9 wins, then you'll need luck to go the distance. Pyroblast on the other hand is a card I never want two of.
I hardly ever even want one Pyroblast as most games that is is actually useable in are games that you are winning anyway. The only exception is if you have a strong early game and no real late game you can finish someone off that you had almost dead. 2 certainly is overkill.
I think you're right about the Pyroblast I am currently 8-1 in my arena run with this deck, and I think I've used it for the kill exactly once. The 3 Flamestrikes seem to be about perfect, more than once I've been able to clear on turn 7, watch my opponent empty his hand on turn 8 and then clear the board again with a second Flamestrike, it gives me so much board/card advantage that the Pyroblast becomes useless.
Looks like 3 is really ideal, though its soooo rare to get 3. 8-0 currently with this deck .2 games won alexstraza, 4 flamestrikes, and 2 leeroy)). 12-1 so far
3 flamestrikes would be the most i would be looking to have, there comes a point where there is just no value from flamestriking more than twice really.
It certainly sux when the opponent has 2 5+ health minions on the board and your there sitting with your flamestrikes in your hand. 3 tops Id say but 2 is the optimal amount imo as long as you have some good single target removals like fireball/polymorph/frostbolt, needs balance between those spells.
I have had 3 FS and 3 Blizzards and i went 11-3 they deck was all around prettty bad (I rated 7 Wins) but I guess I got lucky! I would say 3 is the max
1 Flamestrike is ok. 2 is the absolute maximum to have without hurting your deck beyond repair. Flamestike is a scrub stomper. You NEVER going to get any reasonable value out of Flamestike versus a good opponent, and if your draft is reasonably curved, you'll almost always have a better play, so your 123213123 Flamestrikes will just rot in your hand.
Frostbolts and Fireballs you pick all you can. Flamestrikes - not so much.
Quick example: this is 12-0 arena draft. Ogre, Archmage, Sunwalker, Flamestrike and Pyroblast are the last 5 cards.
Gotta love RNG. And your next draft youll have to choose from wisp and shieldbearer 15 times. With 2 pyros, I wouldn't go with any more than 3 flame strikes unless the other cards are absolute trash.
I once drafted 5 water elementals and had the chance to have had 2 more. I ended up going 11 wins with that deck as well because no one could get through the water elemental wall.
I think it really depends on your draft order, no one can really say X of a card is best without understanding the rest of the deck composition.
I agree 100%. I always play the odds like that, and it usually works out in my favor. However, it sure is annoying when you assume the 2nd lightning storm in the first 12 cards is probably it, and then you get hit with a 3rd... same thing when you get flamestruck on turn 7... then again on turn 8 - with a mage who had no card draw in the deck up to that point... so only 9 cards drawn. That was 2 games in a row - so the Arena run was ended very abruptly. But I will still play the odds after a flame strike because that so seldom happens.