After playing the Brawl I felt that Inspire minions stayed on the board for far longer than I'd expected and seemed to have better base stats than the Joust minions... You don't seem to be paying as much in stats for the Inspire bonus.
I think Inspire Mage could be a viable ladder deck.
Joust is just too rng based to rely on it in a control vs control matchup. It might be useful against aggro though, eg with this pally card that heals you if you win the joust.
Inspire seems kind of slow to build a deck around it as most of the time you won't be able to trigger the effects on the same turn, but I might be proven wrong, who knows.
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I used to be a control player like you, then I took a quick shot to the knee.
After playing the Brawl I felt that Inspire minions stayed on the board for far longer than I'd expected and seemed to have better base stats than the Joust minions... You don't seem to be paying as much in stats for the Inspire bonus.
I think Inspire Mage could be a viable ladder deck.
Yeah, because Blizzard put pretty much no removal (Aside from Acidmaw and Hunter's Mark /Flamelance) in both decks. Also, there's zero reach in both decks, which generally slows the game down to the point where you just happily trade your minions into each other.
I think most people have seen most inspire minions on vaccum and not in a deck full of inspire minions so the +2 cost to some minions was exaggerated I think a card like kodorider might see play in constructed along with nexus champion serad he has 5 hp after all it can survive a turn.. and he have soft taunt.
Master Jouster, Healing Wave, King Ellek and the Pala Jouster are probably better than the Inspire cards if put in the right deck but I am quite sure that some of the inspire cards will see play too. Maybe an inspire mage deck is even possible (if it hasn't such unfitting cards like Flame Lance, Rhonin and Spellslinger in it)... at least as a Tier3 deck
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Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
Jesus. Do people really think that? Is this just because of hunter in the brawl game? ! Hunter had a clearly worse deck in that case. The hunter deck obviously needed more more heal/taunt/aoe/weapons to deal with the early game while the mage deck had a relatively good curve and was ALL synergy.
Anyway...
What could be inspire themed decks? Inspire mage and token paly? I find it highly unlikely that they'll work. Maybe token paly has a chance but i'd say that it's very low. To make an inspire themed deck work too many things must go well in your game. First of all you probably require board control to setup and keep your inspire-minions alive, and hope to get value some turns later. So, you need to be playing against a deck that's like that hunter deck in brawl... that has no way to deal with early game! Which competitive deck is like that? There's a strong possibility that the only competitive inspire minion is Justicar Trueheart, and that possibly only in control warrior (and maybe a little in paladin?). Thunder Bluff Valiant, Frost Giant and Confessor Paletress are borderline cases. They could work, probably not, but even if they do work they're unlikely to make a big splash.
Competitive jousting cards on the other hand are many, dont really require to build a deck with lots of jousting cards to get value(unlike many of the inspire cards) and dont require board control. The new shaman heal card (Healing Wave) is just awesome, Tuskarr Jouster is likely to replace healbot in paladin decks, Master Jouster is almost definetely going to be good in ramp druid but could be good in other late game decks too, King's Elekk is simply one of the most powerful 2-drops in the game and is very likely to see play in non-face hunters.
The Brawl Hunter deck was very different from every deck we have right now (Face, Hybrid, Midrange). It doesn't have that much early game and has huge ass creatures. Personally, the way King's Ellek jousts you your huge 7-8-9 mana cards feels like a Green Ramp deck from MTG. Anyway, I feel like the only reason the joust mechanics work in this particular deck is because it's stacked with huge creatures. For your Midrange Hunter, you'd probably have about 3 to 5 creature that cost 5 or more (Loatheb, Highmane and maybe Belcher or some other tech card) but this deck has 10 creatures that cost 5 or more which more or less guarantee you get the joust unless Medivh gets his Frost Giant. Maybe this will give rise to a more control oriented jousting Hunter with big creatures like BRM's dragons (I'm sure I saw a Dragon Hunter deck around here before, but it received mixed feedback from the community) to activate Master Jouster, which is probably the best joust card in the set.
Lock and Load mechanics were also very interesting. I actually played all my spells first before the card itself so no value for me @). Anyway, Hunter doesn't have a lot of good spells to sling out aside from the used traps (Bear Trap is pretty funny btw), Kill Command, Quick Shot and I guess Tracking is okay too. Maybe with more decent Beasts like Armored Warhorse (which has been clutch for me), Call Pet and Bestial Wrath could see some play in conjunction with Lock and Load but maybe even that is too obscure.
For Medivh, the gameplay is pretty simple. Play with an early curve and abuse the inspire mechanic while playing around Hunter traps. Boneguard Lieutenant, Argent and Dragonhawk Rider are pretty solid early game. Maiden of the Lake, Garrison Commander and Fallen Hero also buff your Hero Ability, making it more worthwhile to use. I never really got the chance to use Coldarra Drake or the Nexus Champion to full effect since your opponent will be most likely trading for your Hero Ability buffers so I can't really say how those will work when those cards hit constructed play. Kvaldir Raider, Kodorider and Frost Giant also round up your mid to late game nice and easy. The Frost Giant mechanics actually surprised me, considering how his mana cost gets reduced even when he's not in your hand. Dedicated inspire decks and Handlock (but mostly Handlock) will really love this card.
Inspire all the way. No reliance on RNG. I inspire, I KNOW what is going to happen. I play a creature that jousts, I know what MIGHT happen. I played both and had a good time with both decks, but at the end of the day I'll take a guarantee over a dice roll any day.
I wish Ellek was a Druid card. He would fit right in there as a decent 2 drop for Ramp (not sure about what you'll cut though). But for this specific Brawl, I think that getting 2 big minions off Ellek's effect won't hurt you chances of winning jousts so much since Medivh's deck has a lot of low cost cards.
In my opinion,the jousting mechanics may not be as bad as everyone says. I think that the effectiveness is quite meta reliant. The mechanics itself forces a deck to play control,so if you are against another control(like the one in the brawl),chances are you need to rely on RNG. But if the ladder is full of aggros,their decks will have lots of low cost minions,and thats where the jousting mechanics shine.
I also think people are underestimating jousts. Jousts should not be treated as a win condition but rather as a "turn the game around condition".
If, let's say, you play your spell heavy OTK Malygos Shaman against a midrange meta and on average you achieve 60% victories against control, 55% against midrange and 45% against aggro, you see you need to stack against the aggro decks. How to do that? You tech in Heal Wave and BAM! you suddenly increase the odds of surviving against aggro by 5-10% (and at the same time against midrange burst damage) without dramatically reducing your odds against control.
But because of the very same reason Tuskarr Jouster and Healing Wave are good cards because they can turn around the game for you, Master Jouster is so-so, cards like Gadzetan Jouster and Armored Warhorse are pretty terrible because they do jack sh*t when it comes to turning the game around. Granted, warhorse does trade with popular 6-drops but who would even consider using an unreliable 4-drop as a removal on turn 6.
So yeah. Eventually, when somebody calculates the odds properly you're gonna know that even though a joust card in a midrange deck might not rarely trigger, but if the deck is well balanced it doesn't need to for you to win (most of the times). But when it does trigger you auto-win.
So yeah. Recap: Joust cards =/= win conditions. There will not ever be any joust decks. Not ever.
So, now that we've been able to see the mechanics in action, which one do you think will be stronger in Constructed play and why?
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
i will not vote because i think they will be pretty even - both mediocre after all.
Joust is easier to pull out, read more useful in constructed.
I bring life and pffffffffffffff!
After playing the Brawl I felt that Inspire minions stayed on the board for far longer than I'd expected and seemed to have better base stats than the Joust minions... You don't seem to be paying as much in stats for the Inspire bonus.
I think Inspire Mage could be a viable ladder deck.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
Joust-It does sth right away and most cards are excellent to counter aggro.
Inspire is just to slow.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
I think both of them could see play in some way.
Joust is just too rng based to rely on it in a control vs control matchup. It might be useful against aggro though, eg with this pally card that heals you if you win the joust.
Inspire seems kind of slow to build a deck around it as most of the time you won't be able to trigger the effects on the same turn, but I might be proven wrong, who knows.
I used to be a control player like you, then I took a quick shot to the knee.
Yeah, because Blizzard put pretty much no removal (Aside from Acidmaw and Hunter's Mark /Flamelance) in both decks. Also, there's zero reach in both decks, which generally slows the game down to the point where you just happily trade your minions into each other.
Joust seems like a big fail ... even with a higher curve you will end up winning less than 50% of your jousts.
If the minion were worth even without the joust, that would make it quite playable, but those minions are few.
Inspire can work but it is slow. And I really don't think the game will slow down enough.
I think most people have seen most inspire minions on vaccum and not in a deck full of inspire minions so the +2 cost to some minions was exaggerated I think a card like kodorider might see play in constructed along with nexus champion serad he has 5 hp after all it can survive a turn.. and he have soft taunt.
People are voting for MidMage Vs ControlHunt !
And you can put whatever you want in front of a ControlHunt (a bad one above all ^^) it will shine...
There is no cancer deck in hearthstone ! You are the Cancer !
Master Jouster, Healing Wave, King Ellek and the Pala Jouster are probably better than the Inspire cards if put in the right deck but I am quite sure that some of the inspire cards will see play too. Maybe an inspire mage deck is even possible (if it hasn't such unfitting cards like Flame Lance, Rhonin and Spellslinger in it)... at least as a Tier3 deck
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
Admittedly I only played the 1 game, but from my experience joust is going to be much better than inspire.
Also admittedly it played into my pre-conceived conclusion that inspire is just too slow to have a great effect.
Every joust I played I won. Even had I lost a couple my opponent wasn't able to take advantage of any of the inspire mechanics.
Cant really compare them. Inspire can be amazing in the long game (control). However not all games are won by control decks.
Not sure if hyped yet.
Jesus. Do people really think that? Is this just because of hunter in the brawl game? ! Hunter had a clearly worse deck in that case. The hunter deck obviously needed more more heal/taunt/aoe/weapons to deal with the early game while the mage deck had a relatively good curve and was ALL synergy.
Anyway...
What could be inspire themed decks? Inspire mage and token paly? I find it highly unlikely that they'll work. Maybe token paly has a chance but i'd say that it's very low. To make an inspire themed deck work too many things must go well in your game. First of all you probably require board control to setup and keep your inspire-minions alive, and hope to get value some turns later. So, you need to be playing against a deck that's like that hunter deck in brawl... that has no way to deal with early game! Which competitive deck is like that? There's a strong possibility that the only competitive inspire minion is Justicar Trueheart, and that possibly only in control warrior (and maybe a little in paladin?). Thunder Bluff Valiant, Frost Giant and Confessor Paletress are borderline cases. They could work, probably not, but even if they do work they're unlikely to make a big splash.
Competitive jousting cards on the other hand are many, dont really require to build a deck with lots of jousting cards to get value(unlike many of the inspire cards) and dont require board control. The new shaman heal card (Healing Wave) is just awesome, Tuskarr Jouster is likely to replace healbot in paladin decks, Master Jouster is almost definetely going to be good in ramp druid but could be good in other late game decks too, King's Elekk is simply one of the most powerful 2-drops in the game and is very likely to see play in non-face hunters.
The Brawl Hunter deck was very different from every deck we have right now (Face, Hybrid, Midrange). It doesn't have that much early game and has huge ass creatures. Personally, the way King's Ellek jousts you your huge 7-8-9 mana cards feels like a Green Ramp deck from MTG. Anyway, I feel like the only reason the joust mechanics work in this particular deck is because it's stacked with huge creatures. For your Midrange Hunter, you'd probably have about 3 to 5 creature that cost 5 or more (Loatheb, Highmane and maybe Belcher or some other tech card) but this deck has 10 creatures that cost 5 or more which more or less guarantee you get the joust unless Medivh gets his Frost Giant. Maybe this will give rise to a more control oriented jousting Hunter with big creatures like BRM's dragons (I'm sure I saw a Dragon Hunter deck around here before, but it received mixed feedback from the community) to activate Master Jouster, which is probably the best joust card in the set.
Lock and Load mechanics were also very interesting. I actually played all my spells first before the card itself so no value for me @). Anyway, Hunter doesn't have a lot of good spells to sling out aside from the used traps (Bear Trap is pretty funny btw), Kill Command, Quick Shot and I guess Tracking is okay too. Maybe with more decent Beasts like Armored Warhorse (which has been clutch for me), Call Pet and Bestial Wrath could see some play in conjunction with Lock and Load but maybe even that is too obscure.
For Medivh, the gameplay is pretty simple. Play with an early curve and abuse the inspire mechanic while playing around Hunter traps. Boneguard Lieutenant, Argent and Dragonhawk Rider are pretty solid early game. Maiden of the Lake, Garrison Commander and Fallen Hero also buff your Hero Ability, making it more worthwhile to use. I never really got the chance to use Coldarra Drake or the Nexus Champion to full effect since your opponent will be most likely trading for your Hero Ability buffers so I can't really say how those will work when those cards hit constructed play. Kvaldir Raider, Kodorider and Frost Giant also round up your mid to late game nice and easy. The Frost Giant mechanics actually surprised me, considering how his mana cost gets reduced even when he's not in your hand. Dedicated inspire decks and Handlock (but mostly Handlock) will really love this card.
Inspire all the way. No reliance on RNG. I inspire, I KNOW what is going to happen. I play a creature that jousts, I know what MIGHT happen. I played both and had a good time with both decks, but at the end of the day I'll take a guarantee over a dice roll any day.
I wish Ellek was a Druid card. He would fit right in there as a decent 2 drop for Ramp (not sure about what you'll cut though). But for this specific Brawl, I think that getting 2 big minions off Ellek's effect won't hurt you chances of winning jousts so much since Medivh's deck has a lot of low cost cards.
In my opinion,the jousting mechanics may not be as bad as everyone says. I think that the effectiveness is quite meta reliant. The mechanics itself forces a deck to play control,so if you are against another control(like the one in the brawl),chances are you need to rely on RNG. But if the ladder is full of aggros,their decks will have lots of low cost minions,and thats where the jousting mechanics shine.
I also think people are underestimating jousts. Jousts should not be treated as a win condition but rather as a "turn the game around condition".
If, let's say, you play your spell heavy OTK Malygos Shaman against a midrange meta and on average you achieve 60% victories against control, 55% against midrange and 45% against aggro, you see you need to stack against the aggro decks. How to do that? You tech in Heal Wave and BAM! you suddenly increase the odds of surviving against aggro by 5-10% (and at the same time against midrange burst damage) without dramatically reducing your odds against control.
But because of the very same reason Tuskarr Jouster and Healing Wave are good cards because they can turn around the game for you, Master Jouster is so-so, cards like Gadzetan Jouster and Armored Warhorse are pretty terrible because they do jack sh*t when it comes to turning the game around. Granted, warhorse does trade with popular 6-drops but who would even consider using an unreliable 4-drop as a removal on turn 6.
So yeah. Eventually, when somebody calculates the odds properly you're gonna know that even though a joust card in a midrange deck might not rarely trigger, but if the deck is well balanced it doesn't need to for you to win (most of the times). But when it does trigger you auto-win.
So yeah. Recap: Joust cards =/= win conditions. There will not ever be any joust decks. Not ever.
*The tier guide will return*
Lol @ joust getting any votes.