I think Rag is more consistent and better. I mean the Wild Magic can turn things around, but most games you have enough health to withstand the strong start of Nefarian.
lol, all these hipsters saying rag is better/equal... and then you read the strategies, its usualy something like"hope that your nef opponent is stupid enough to not keep their auto win cards". rag is def winnable but sometimes its just impossible. if u all were thinking up these strategies for nef, he would probably have a close to 100 % winrate.
Yeah, that's what I thought... "If I'm able to win with Ragnaros, then I'm going to crush my opponents with Nefarian". But then I got to play with Nefarian, started using his hero power and got things like Divine Favor (always having more cards in hand than him), Blade Flurry (Nefarian doesn't use weapons) and Sacrificial Pact (no demons at sight). Wow, free spells... that I couldn't even cast.
What I'm saying is Nefarian can get stupid things like free Sprint, Mind Control or Pyroblast, but he can also get free shit. Ragnaros knows what he's getting.
lol, all these hipsters saying rag is better/equal... and then you read the strategies, its usualy something like"hope that your nef opponent is stupid enough to not keep their auto win cards". rag is def winnable but sometimes its just impossible. if u all were thinking up these strategies for nef, he would probably have a close to 100 % winrate.
Yeah, that's what I thought... "If I'm able to win with Ragnaros, then I'm going to crush my opponents with Nefarian". But then I got to play with Nefarian, started using his hero power and got things like Divine Favor (always having more cards in hand than him), Blade Flurry (Nefarian doesn't use weapons) and Sacrificial Pact (no demons at sight). Wow, free spells... that I couldn't even cast.
What I'm saying is Nefarian can get stupid things like free Sprint, Mind Control or Pyroblast, but he can also get free shit. Ragnaros knows what he's getting.
I have yet to hit a minion with DIE, INSECT! not sure that is what you mean when you know what youre getting...
IDK why, but nefarian started with 5 mana in all 3 of my games, i got quickly overwhelmed playing Ragnaros, but then i played with Nefarian on my 3rd try and it was like a quiet walk on the beach.
Nefarian is like a facehunter and Ragn - like control warrior. And all face hunters crying when playing ragnaros as they don`t know how to control the board. I like rag more, it`s more interesting to play with it and i get more wins with it.
P.S. Facehunters, don`t cry - just die! )) Thanks Blizzard for great brawl!
I have lost to Free Pyroblasts, Free Brawls, Free Blizzards...
Don't know by what standard you consider those worse than 8 random damage. Fireball is 6 targeted damage and costs 4.
There are a lot of spells that are complete garbage, you might end up with a completely useless hand. 8 random damage might not be better than a 2 mana Fireball/Pyroblast, but it's a lot more consistent.
The fact is, the two are probably around similar in power. But as people have noted, Nefarian is zoo-like and more forgiving of mistakes, while Ragnaros can be approximated by Control Warrior. This is the real reason of the perceived difference.
I'm not saying that players who have equal finesse in both zoo and classic control are wrong in saying that Nefarian is better. The reason for the disparity lies in that the majority of players (your opponents) are better at zoo than they are at control warrior. So, you have an easy time as Nefarian since THEY don't know how to play Ragnaros, even if your skill in playing Nefarian or Ragnaros is the same.
The fact is, the two are probably around similar in power. But as people have noted, Nefarian is zoo-like and more forgiving of mistakes, while Ragnaros can be approximated by Control Warrior. This is the real reason of the perceived difference.
I'm not saying that players who have equal finesse in both zoo and classic control are wrong in saying that Nefarian is better. The reason for the disparity lies in that the majority of players (your opponents) are better at zoo than they are at control warrior. So, you have an easy time as Nefarian since THEY don't know how to play Ragnaros, even if your skill in playing Nefarian or Ragnaros is the same.
THIS is exactly how I see it. Ragnaros have stronger tool, and if you can play control-deck, you can win easily, unless of course nef got razorgore and vael during first turn, than you would most likely lost
How does Nefarian lose it in late game when he's drawing two cards per turn?
Because that spell he draws is almost always worse than dealing 8 random damage. Do I really have to explain this?
You do.
As for me, Brawl is not really fun - too much RNG involved here. It's not "very unbalanced" but we can't say it's balanced either. 8 RANDOM damage is even more random than Nefarian's hero power.
Edit: Going to give it a few more goes before I make claims.
Although, I'm already starting to see people insta-concede if they don't get Nef.
EDIT 2: Oof, yeah, whoever decided it was a good idea to start Nef with 4 crystals should not be anywhere near balancing for this game. Nef is the clearly ahead in this matchup, no matter how you slice it.
When you master this deck, Rag is certainly much easier to play than in the beginning. However, when you play against someone who has mastered Nefarian's deck, you are still more likely to lose...
I read somwhere data saying that overall Rag has around 38% win ratio. So it confirms that Nefarian is better, but also shows that it's not broken what people claim. It would be obviously very hard to make 2 completely different decks with similar win ratios (45-55 for example), so I find 38% for a worse class very satisfying. Another thing is Rag requires much more skill to win, so taking all newbies and bad players who are forced to play Rag and obviously loose, it becomes even better. One more aspect is that some people use Brawl as a way of farming gold now and they auto concede when game gives them Rag, because farming as Nefarian is much easier. So considering all newbies, bad players and auto-scoopers and the fact that Rag is objectively a bit worse, 38% win ratio is very nice and both decks are balanced. Amen.
So what win rate do you consider broken then?
50/50 is balanced, but even 55/45 is already a highly favoured win ratio. 60/40 is an indicator of high imbalance. And 38% is an even lower number than 40 if you are not familiar with the basics of mathematics.
The imbalance doesn't come from Nef's hero power, it comes from him starting with 4 or 5 mana crystals or whatever it is... Rag is playing catchup even when he's first to act. This matchup is CLEARLY in favor of Nef, and I think any reasonable amount of stats will show this.
Of course, it's not impossible to win with Rag, but anyone saying this is balanced is just plain incorrect.
I read somwhere data saying that overall Rag has around 38% win ratio. So it confirms that Nefarian is better, but also shows that it's not broken what people claim. It would be obviously very hard to make 2 completely different decks with similar win ratios (45-55 for example), so I find 38% for a worse class very satisfying. Another thing is Rag requires much more skill to win, so taking all newbies and bad players who are forced to play Rag and obviously loose, it becomes even better. One more aspect is that some people use Brawl as a way of farming gold now and they auto concede when game gives them Rag, because farming as Nefarian is much easier. So considering all newbies, bad players and auto-scoopers and the fact that Rag is objectively a bit worse, 38% win ratio is very nice and both decks are balanced. Amen.
So what win rate do you consider broken then?
50/50 is balanced, but even 55/45 is already a highly favoured win ratio. 60/40 is an indicator of high imbalance. And 38% is an even lower number than 40 if you are not familiar with the basics of mathematics.
The explanation in the post you quoted already answered you. That data includes all the folks who autoconcede when they get Rag, and also Rag, being a control deck, requires more thinking.
I read somwhere data saying that overall Rag has around 38% win ratio. So it confirms that Nefarian is better, but also shows that it's not broken what people claim. It would be obviously very hard to make 2 completely different decks with similar win ratios (45-55 for example), so I find 38% for a worse class very satisfying. Another thing is Rag requires much more skill to win, so taking all newbies and bad players who are forced to play Rag and obviously loose, it becomes even better. One more aspect is that some people use Brawl as a way of farming gold now and they auto concede when game gives them Rag, because farming as Nefarian is much easier. So considering all newbies, bad players and auto-scoopers and the fact that Rag is objectively a bit worse, 38% win ratio is very nice and both decks are balanced. Amen.
So what win rate do you consider broken then?
50/50 is balanced, but even 55/45 is already a highly favoured win ratio. 60/40 is an indicator of high imbalance. And 38% is an even lower number than 40 if you are not familiar with the basics of mathematics.
"If you are not familiar with basics of mathematics." Could you sound even more pretentious? He explained how 38% evens out given Rag requires a high skilled player (I am currently 5-1 with Rag, Nef is reeeeal IMBA) and some people are so whiney about playing Rag they drop (has happened to me twice now when I played Nef.)
Please be more cordial with your posts. No need to make yourself sound like some great intellectual by belittling someone else.
I think Rag is more consistent and better. I mean the Wild Magic can turn things around, but most games you have enough health to withstand the strong start of Nefarian.
Yeah, that's what I thought... "If I'm able to win with Ragnaros, then I'm going to crush my opponents with Nefarian". But then I got to play with Nefarian, started using his hero power and got things like Divine Favor (always having more cards in hand than him), Blade Flurry (Nefarian doesn't use weapons) and Sacrificial Pact (no demons at sight). Wow, free spells... that I couldn't even cast.
What I'm saying is Nefarian can get stupid things like free Sprint, Mind Control or Pyroblast, but he can also get free shit. Ragnaros knows what he's getting.
I have yet to hit a minion with DIE, INSECT! not sure that is what you mean when you know what youre getting...
गञ्जा गञ्जा
IDK why, but nefarian started with 5 mana in all 3 of my games, i got quickly overwhelmed playing Ragnaros, but then i played with Nefarian on my 3rd try and it was like a quiet walk on the beach.
Nefarian is like a facehunter and Ragn - like control warrior. And all face hunters crying when playing ragnaros as they don`t know how to control the board. I like rag more, it`s more interesting to play with it and i get more wins with it.
P.S. Facehunters, don`t cry - just die! )) Thanks Blizzard for great brawl!
I have lost to Free Pyroblasts, Free Brawls, Free Blizzards...
Don't know by what standard you consider those worse than 8 random damage. Fireball is 6 targeted damage and costs 4.
There are a lot of spells that are complete garbage, you might end up with a completely useless hand. 8 random damage might not be better than a 2 mana Fireball/Pyroblast, but it's a lot more consistent.
In that case you know what you are getting too: always 8 damage to the opponent's face. xD
Come on, let's agree that "8 damage to random target" is way more predictable than "random spell from a random class".
The fact is, the two are probably around similar in power. But as people have noted, Nefarian is zoo-like and more forgiving of mistakes, while Ragnaros can be approximated by Control Warrior. This is the real reason of the perceived difference.
I'm not saying that players who have equal finesse in both zoo and classic control are wrong in saying that Nefarian is better. The reason for the disparity lies in that the majority of players (your opponents) are better at zoo than they are at control warrior. So, you have an easy time as Nefarian since THEY don't know how to play Ragnaros, even if your skill in playing Nefarian or Ragnaros is the same.
THIS is exactly how I see it. Ragnaros have stronger tool, and if you can play control-deck, you can win easily, unless of course nef got razorgore and vael during first turn, than you would most likely lost
You can only contain a Nefarian early game if the Nefarian is a garbage player who does not know how to mulligan.
DJ
You do.
As for me, Brawl is not really fun - too much RNG involved here. It's not "very unbalanced" but we can't say it's balanced either. 8 RANDOM damage is even more random than Nefarian's hero power.
Thea, the little Fairy ^__^
http://steamcommunity.com/id/fairythea
Edit: Going to give it a few more goes before I make claims.
Although, I'm already starting to see people insta-concede if they don't get Nef.
EDIT 2: Oof, yeah, whoever decided it was a good idea to start Nef with 4 crystals should not be anywhere near balancing for this game. Nef is the clearly ahead in this matchup, no matter how you slice it.
When you master this deck, Rag is certainly much easier to play than in the beginning. However, when you play against someone who has mastered Nefarian's deck, you are still more likely to lose...
Good job at being a huge douche for no reason.
Haha I have yet to hit a minion with DIE, INSECT!
गञ्जा गञ्जा
The imbalance doesn't come from Nef's hero power, it comes from him starting with 4 or 5 mana crystals or whatever it is... Rag is playing catchup even when he's first to act. This matchup is CLEARLY in favor of Nef, and I think any reasonable amount of stats will show this.
Of course, it's not impossible to win with Rag, but anyone saying this is balanced is just plain incorrect.
The explanation in the post you quoted already answered you. That data includes all the folks who autoconcede when they get Rag, and also Rag, being a control deck, requires more thinking.
"If you are not familiar with basics of mathematics." Could you sound even more pretentious? He explained how 38% evens out given Rag requires a high skilled player (I am currently 5-1 with Rag, Nef is reeeeal IMBA) and some people are so whiney about playing Rag they drop (has happened to me twice now when I played Nef.)
Please be more cordial with your posts. No need to make yourself sound like some great intellectual by belittling someone else.
Its a game bro, chill.
Well, if you think your opponent's Nef is a rank 20 player, maybe you can win. Anyone with decent skills playing Nef should never lose.