I'm not gonna install a deck tracker and play an old deck and concede until I meet spell mages. If I was going to play Wheel Warlock (and I'm not playing Standard at all at the moment) I'd want to try the Renethal version.
I understand hating a deck I think moralizing deck choice or hating the players who play a deck is really silly. My favorite archetype has always been control priest, lots of people hate that. But I would never steal your minions or raise the dead in real life, I leave all that shit in the Hearthstone app. And more seriously I don't view deck choice as an ethical decision or an expression of my personality.
Also, I don't think at all about other people's Hearthstone achievements (literal or abstract) or how proud they should or shouldn't be of them.
Anyhow. I hope the nerfs give you what you want tomorrow. GLHF and all that.
Ok, there's no point in arguing Wheellock is getting destroyed by BSM with 27% winrate whether you're at Bronze or Legend and it is the worst match-up of the deck. It's just a fact.
Also I agree hating people for choosing their favorite deck is stupid, although I can appreciate someone for choosing non-meta deck or playing even meta deck but with his own tweaks. We do not have to be hardcore players or prove anything playing the game, it's just fun. Just don't be a dick.
(how do you use the quotes on here, the rest of my text just ends up being wrapped up in the quote box)?
''expression of my personality.''
I think it does. I mean, choices are telling in a way or another. They're manifestations of self-expression, they don't exist ex-nihilo. Some people choose to play subpar decks (off meta decks) looking for a challenge, it's telling. Others refresh hs replay in order to pick whichever deck has the highest % rate:
I know a guy who buys drinks to his poker opponents in order to get them drunk so they don't play as well and he can win. It's a mindset.
I played against a rogue who played really cool amalgam deck, happened once. He was a good player too. It was inventive. You could tell he put some thoughts into it and tried something new. I value that. I appreciate that. I'm thankful for him bringing some diversity to the game and to my own experience.
Some people choose to only play the highest % decks. Once BSM is a thing of the past, they'll move on to elemental shaman. It's a mindset.
What does Hearthstone benefit the most from? Rogue amalgam players or BSM players? For me, it's easily the former. I would argue that's it's case for everyone. Who doesn't enjoy being faced with something different which requires different strategies? I can say 100% BSM players would rather play against any other decks but mirror BSM. If everyone just played the same deck they do, they'd likely quit the game ironically enough.
I appreciate people playing off-meta, I think they're a boon for the game (objectively speaking). The more people try different things, the healthier the game is.
''Ok, there's no point in arguing Wheellock is getting destroyed by BSM with 27% winrate whether you're at Bronze or Legend and it is the worst match-up of the deck. It's just a fact.''
Ok, that's fair. I admit I'm not playing the right deck to counter BSM. To some extent, I'd even admit I'm not even playing a good deck at all and it's my fault for going against the odds.
I didn't say 'hate' I said 'despised' but I also admit that's going too far.
As far as achieving something, I do. Maxie managed to reach legend using only uncraftables DK. Do you realize how hard that is? How good of a player you need to be in order to do that? If the whole community were to try this challenge, I don't think anyone would be able to pull it off. It's great, it's impressive, it's an achievement. People have recognized it too. Well done Maxie!
I find people who do things like that impressive. Danehearth managed to reach legend using a super slow, defensive Tesspionage rogue. I tried to craft it and play it and only then realized how hard it was to pilot. There's so much randomness involved, you need to be able to adapt constantly to your hand. He's a great player, I value what he does.
Compare that to playing treants every round and +4/+4 the whole board of them early for a win and using the same identical strategy over and over to reach legend. While Maxie, Danearth and treant lover might have all reached legend, the former did it with great skill while the latter just followed the motion. I wouldn't all put them in the same class of players.
I wish they just nerfed Tsunami, I don't think there is much that can be done to the mana cheat foundation of the deck, too many nerfs would be needed, so pay off cards should be targeted. So let's say 8 mana Tsunami with 3 elementals might be just enough.
Does anybody else get the feeling from these cards that “there is no next year of expansions or interactions to worry about, just give them power levels that exceed any cards we ever made before & make one final drive to the hoop for monetization”? I hope that’s not the case.
It was a joke. Look at what's the second best deck.
As for the meta not changing much, for some reason I went from 43% to 56% winrate after the patch. I haven't seen a single mage since. So, I don't know how you define 'not changing' but I'd say there's a noticeable difference.
I'm not refering to first moments after nerfs when meta is obviously shaken and people try different things, we'll see how it stabilizes and what the real changes are. For sure it won't be "Shaman 20% more popular".
Does anybody else get the feeling from these cards that “there is no next year of expansions or interactions to worry about, just give them power levels that exceed any cards we ever made before & make one final drive to the hoop for monetization”? I hope that’s not the case.
That's entirely possible. Them effectively closing sown competitive for a huge portion of the playerbase, giving up on mercenaries and duels support, as well as removal of anything other than cards is concerning. They have moved to low effort development, they might have plans to close down HS eventually.
there is alot of control now but WL and Warri def have gotten too much love.. its ok if the bombs destroy a card in deck or board but 3x ?? and again only problem was that dual class rogue + mage that got out of hand
The problem with boom boss, elemental mage or elemental shaman is that they automatically win if the game reaches a certain length. Still, boomboss, as annoying as it is, doesn't come close to being as oppressive as BSM was (I don't play warrior by the way). You have at least nine turns to do things.
As for the new handbuff rogue, casting reverb on the amalgram is fun as it keeps the enchantment and you can pop it with one damage so it never becomes unmanageable. The problem is the rush minion which gets huge and they have a huge amount of them.
Still, both those decks are not as oppressive as BSM was before. Not saying they're not strong but compared to BSM before, you have some agency which was a luxury we didn't have before the patch.
It's funny to me how we used to have that conversation about BSM being fine and yet it's *still* being played following two subsequent nerfs. I'll know which members to take seriously next time a discussion about buffs and nerfs takes place that's for sure.
ok .
I'm not gonna install a deck tracker and play an old deck and concede until I meet spell mages. If I was going to play Wheel Warlock (and I'm not playing Standard at all at the moment) I'd want to try the Renethal version.
I understand hating a deck I think moralizing deck choice or hating the players who play a deck is really silly. My favorite archetype has always been control priest, lots of people hate that. But I would never steal your minions or raise the dead in real life, I leave all that shit in the Hearthstone app. And more seriously I don't view deck choice as an ethical decision or an expression of my personality.
Also, I don't think at all about other people's Hearthstone achievements (literal or abstract) or how proud they should or shouldn't be of them.
Anyhow. I hope the nerfs give you what you want tomorrow. GLHF and all that.
Also... 3/3 undefeated!
Ok, there's no point in arguing Wheellock is getting destroyed by BSM with 27% winrate whether you're at Bronze or Legend and it is the worst match-up of the deck. It's just a fact.
Also I agree hating people for choosing their favorite deck is stupid, although I can appreciate someone for choosing non-meta deck or playing even meta deck but with his own tweaks. We do not have to be hardcore players or prove anything playing the game, it's just fun. Just don't be a dick.
(how do you use the quotes on here, the rest of my text just ends up being wrapped up in the quote box)?
''expression of my personality.''
I think it does. I mean, choices are telling in a way or another. They're manifestations of self-expression, they don't exist ex-nihilo. Some people choose to play subpar decks (off meta decks) looking for a challenge, it's telling. Others refresh hs replay in order to pick whichever deck has the highest % rate:
I know a guy who buys drinks to his poker opponents in order to get them drunk so they don't play as well and he can win. It's a mindset.
I played against a rogue who played really cool amalgam deck, happened once. He was a good player too. It was inventive. You could tell he put some thoughts into it and tried something new. I value that. I appreciate that. I'm thankful for him bringing some diversity to the game and to my own experience.
Some people choose to only play the highest % decks. Once BSM is a thing of the past, they'll move on to elemental shaman. It's a mindset.
What does Hearthstone benefit the most from? Rogue amalgam players or BSM players? For me, it's easily the former. I would argue that's it's case for everyone. Who doesn't enjoy being faced with something different which requires different strategies? I can say 100% BSM players would rather play against any other decks but mirror BSM. If everyone just played the same deck they do, they'd likely quit the game ironically enough.
I appreciate people playing off-meta, I think they're a boon for the game (objectively speaking). The more people try different things, the healthier the game is.
''Ok, there's no point in arguing Wheellock is getting destroyed by BSM with 27% winrate whether you're at Bronze or Legend and it is the worst match-up of the deck. It's just a fact.''
Ok, that's fair. I admit I'm not playing the right deck to counter BSM. To some extent, I'd even admit I'm not even playing a good deck at all and it's my fault for going against the odds.
I didn't say 'hate' I said 'despised' but I also admit that's going too far.
As far as achieving something, I do. Maxie managed to reach legend using only uncraftables DK. Do you realize how hard that is? How good of a player you need to be in order to do that? If the whole community were to try this challenge, I don't think anyone would be able to pull it off. It's great, it's impressive, it's an achievement. People have recognized it too. Well done Maxie!
I find people who do things like that impressive. Danehearth managed to reach legend using a super slow, defensive Tesspionage rogue. I tried to craft it and play it and only then realized how hard it was to pilot. There's so much randomness involved, you need to be able to adapt constantly to your hand. He's a great player, I value what he does.
Compare that to playing treants every round and +4/+4 the whole board of them early for a win and using the same identical strategy over and over to reach legend. While Maxie, Danearth and treant lover might have all reached legend, the former did it with great skill while the latter just followed the motion. I wouldn't all put them in the same class of players.
Feeling like a f... prophet right now!
To end on a good note:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/k9Y4henWGcjpHCQaJs6uT7
Take it BSM, take it hard. That felt *so* good.
Yeah but now wheel lock is tier 1 again.
Does anybody else get the feeling from these cards that “there is no next year of expansions or interactions to worry about, just give them power levels that exceed any cards we ever made before & make one final drive to the hoop for monetization”? I hope that’s not the case.
“Put your faith in the Light!”
Which ones?
Not when I won my game :), it was pre-patched. Don't rain on my parade now.
Newsflash: following tsunami nerf, mage loses 20% popularity.
In other news: elemental shaman is now 20% more popular.
I don't think nerfs made Shaman stronger. These nerfs will not change this meta much anyway.
It was a joke. Look at what's the second best deck.
As for the meta not changing much, for some reason I went from 43% to 56% winrate after the patch. I haven't seen a single mage since. So, I don't know how you define 'not changing' but I'd say there's a noticeable difference.
I'm not refering to first moments after nerfs when meta is obviously shaken and people try different things, we'll see how it stabilizes and what the real changes are. For sure it won't be "Shaman 20% more popular".
That's entirely possible. Them effectively closing sown competitive for a huge portion of the playerbase, giving up on mercenaries and duels support, as well as removal of anything other than cards is concerning. They have moved to low effort development, they might have plans to close down HS eventually.
Mage is still strong, it's just not as busted as it used to be. I still got two consecutive rounds of tsunami to face.
there is alot of control now but WL and Warri def have gotten too much love.. its ok if the bombs destroy a card in deck or board but 3x ?? and again only problem was that dual class rogue + mage that got out of hand
now let's talk about dh. other than that can't complain
The problem with boom boss, elemental mage or elemental shaman is that they automatically win if the game reaches a certain length. Still, boomboss, as annoying as it is, doesn't come close to being as oppressive as BSM was (I don't play warrior by the way). You have at least nine turns to do things.
As for the new handbuff rogue, casting reverb on the amalgram is fun as it keeps the enchantment and you can pop it with one damage so it never becomes unmanageable. The problem is the rush minion which gets huge and they have a huge amount of them.
Still, both those decks are not as oppressive as BSM was before. Not saying they're not strong but compared to BSM before, you have some agency which was a luxury we didn't have before the patch.
Most decks have late game burst potential that turns them into OTK. Best decks are always everything - aggro, combo and control in one package.
It's funny to me how we used to have that conversation about BSM being fine and yet it's *still* being played following two subsequent nerfs. I'll know which members to take seriously next time a discussion about buffs and nerfs takes place that's for sure.
Is the current BSM the same deck or is it the same archetype but with new cards like Orb?
If the new version is stronger (I have no idea) after the changes, was the archetype nerfed or buffed?
Should the goal of nerfs be make the strongest archetype in the game unplayable?
I'm not gonna play Standard until the next expansion and I have no new thoughts on this topic so I'll bow out of the BSM conversation at this point.