Hearthpwn

So what do you think about changes to cards and their impact on enjoyment of game?

I don't understand "enjoyment of the game" part.

Quote from emkarab >>

I don't understand "enjoyment of the game" part.

 Why do you play HS?

As a control (not OTK) player I'm not really interested in playing at the moment. It feels nearly impossible to survive while playing defensively. Blizzard keeps nerfing AoE and late game comeback mechanics patch after patch while barely touching aggressive and burst decks.

For a long time Warrior has been the only viable control deck, which I found really monotonous but at least it was something. Now it too has been nerfed to the ground, leaving nothing left.

This.  Control is now completely dead.  If you're not aggro or OTK or a combo of both, you lose. 

The recent changes didn't really change much. The only changes I've noticed is Razzledazzle DK being more viable and rogue not being able to cheese lamplighter/sonya. I don't agree that control has a hard time surviving, especially DK and Warlock, but I think there is a lack of late game control win conditions (you can survive but then what?). Also losing Renathal was a huge loss to all control/late game decks.

 Lol, control is dead? Sonya Rogue is total control and it's thriving as tier 1 deck, DK is 4th best deck at 1k legend. You are clueless.

Those decks you've mentioned are mid-range decks, not control. Sonya Rogue has no card with more than 5 mana... that's not control, that's tempo/mid-range.

Idk why everyone complains so much all the time lmao 

I really like the hydration station nerf it’s made warrior less oppressive with zill 

The buffs made deathknight even more fun which I’ve really been enjoying playing double rainbow. 

The nerfs also made elemental mage has somewhat of a chance to be beaten. 

As long as your definition of control is all removal, no wincon other than fatigue, you’re going to be disappointed. Those decks like Dr. Boom Mad Genius mech warrior are long gone and aren’t coming back. It’s for the good of the game too. There are definitely decks that rely on removal before playing threats and a wincon. Insanity warlock is great right now, so is DK. What isn’t great is priest and warrior with half of the deck being removal then trying to steal, copy or cheese a win after turn 15.

But that Is exactly point he was talking about, that control almost does not exist. 

On the other hand, i think IT was always like that, some control classes are simply not viable.

 What i myself dislike about control decks Is when their game plan Is to flood board with minions, instead of controlling game with spells as one would expect from proper control decks. Control through sheer powerlevel Is usualy toxic experience. (Now when i think about IT, maybe there could be another name for this type of decks, same as there Is little but still visible difference between tempo and midrange deck.)

Honestly, I think this patch is pretty good. There's a good number of viable decks that have a spectrum of aesthetics and playstyles. Without the infinite unkilliax suffering I don't have a lot to complain about. I think excavate rogue falling by the wayside has been for the better. Games are tense, but matchups don't feel unwinnable. Not a lot of 'created by.' Games are capable of going long, but you never queue into a matchup going "oh boy better set aside the next 30 minutes."

I think a lot of people haven't tuned their brains to the current version of hearthstone. You're playing many cards in a turn and your opponent is too. Decks can do tons of damage, insert Leeroy copy pasta, but also gain tons of life to counteract that. If decks didn't have good burst combos with the amount of healing we have, then many decks would be out of the game after a few board clears. It's not like decks like highlander Druid aren't playable despite being slower. You beat these combos using taunts and disruption. This is just what normal is now. You both do a whole lot of stuff and it's able to cancel out into a close game.

Does control exist? Ehhhhhhh. Modern hearthstone isn't conducive to the sort of remove everything -> pass playstyle people are talking about. There are slower, more defensive decks, but they win by stabilizing and then playing minions. Or by playing Odyn and killing you. We can try to call that "the modern version of control," but that misses the point. Its getting into semantics to try and invalidate control player's feelings. What hardcore control players want is to play 29 lifesteal/removal cards + Alexandros Mograine and win. The thing is, I don't want to queue into that... that sounds awful... lol.

My opinion is that this meta doesn't need nerfs, the last round of nerfs was good, but I would like buffs to all the stuff they tried to print that didn't work. Burgle rogue, big spell mage, hunter.

kill lamplighter again. make it as useless as they did warrior/highlander decks. i just dont get their braindead thinking kill the cool cards for the same bounce effects while throwing any ele down

For ladder I think its pretty fine abit to much OTK for my taste but still seems varied enough on ladder and my decks work against the netdeckers so thats good. But I do face quite abit of different decks.

All though the meta in the competitive scene tournaments seems very dull tbh.

OTK as a concept doesn’t seem to be to HS advantage as a mechanic. Doesn’t really fit their core concept of « fun ». I realise OTKing other players  is fun for some but I’m pretty sure even OTK players secretly hope that their own opponent won’t end up being OTK because their probably resent getting OTKd themselves. Hopefully mechanics which boost spell damage and charge minions will eventually be scrutinised. They probably won’t but who knows. I would imagine HS is fun for the same reason chess is fun: player agency and the cycle of action-reaction.

I'm fine with OTK, as long as it takes more than just accumulation of the right cards in hand. Priest Quest was ok, and so was Uther of the Ebon Blade OTK (or even Wheellock). You start a countdown and your opponent has a fair chance.

Quote from GodKingSAINT >>

Not enough nerfs and some nerfs were too weak, Concierge and lamp lighter for example. 

 I agree on Concierge, cant say I've seen much of Lamp Lighter though after the nerfs.

But Concierge should have been bumped up to minimum 1 mana. I've been OTK'd from 30 without even the Concierge being down so them nerfing it abit harder wouldnt be a bad thing.

Quote from Siedepunctation >>

I'm fine with OTK, as long as it takes more than just accumulation of the right cards in hand. Priest Quest was ok, and so was Uther of the Ebon Blade OTK (or even Wheellock). You start a countdown and your opponent has a fair chance.

 This. OTK is fine as a viable archetype.  However, for anyone that remembers, OTK decks used to actually require skill and take some time. You had to set them up, your opponent could see it coming and had a chance to react or change their game play. It was rewarding for Malygos Rogue or Druid to go off. Even Maly Warlock was decent.  However, none of those decks went off on turn 6.  They all required some legit setup, not just draw all my cards quick which is way too easy to do now. They made you think about using your removal.   

Now? Pfft. Turn 6 game over, you lose.  An orangutan can pull off OTKs now whilst chowing a banana.  There is no setup or work involved.  Zeddy just posted a great video about this very topic, check it out on YouTube. 

Well it does require *some* setup but it clearly doesn't require a lot of it. I think wheel is a good OTK because it doesn't trigger instantly in one round and has a major drawback (no more cards and being vulnerable). That kind of OTK is ok (although the card is now dead since the Reno nerf).  It also doesn't happen before turn 8 (or rarely does anyway).

If OTK were unlikely before turn 10, 11, I'd be fine with it. Otherwise I think it goes against one of their core design pillar: fun. It's not a fun mechanic for a card game when it triggers early since skill of the player hardly come into play. It just *happens*. There's barely any strategy that goes into it. Hearthstone is a strategy game, let's play strategically please. Kibler has said 'Sea Breeze Chalice' was the card he disliked the most from this expansion and he actually quit the game for a week before the last patch because of it and Lamp Lighter. He's a good card player, one of the best but he was getting trounced by players who just OTK him on T5 with minimal setup. 

Reaching legend should only be for the best of the best but watching streams, you see bronze-skill players reaching legend who made it there by spamming Chalice or Lamp Lighters. Now the patch has been released, they struggle for dear life and are getting curb stomped like they should've been in the first place.

'Charge' is a bullshit mechanic and I hope it does soon as it also a bad idea for the game. What is fun about the game is the back and forth between the players. This is why when they designed the game, minions are inactive on their first turn. It was a good idea, charge shits all over their own design, its incoherent with their core design. Give the opponent a round to react goddammit.