I’ve never seen standard in a place where it is right now. I’ve played 12 games today and 11 of them were against Shamans. Something about a t2 10cost with windfury or the new 11/11 taunt seems a little OP haha.
just an awful time to ply the game. Team 5 just will never learn…
uff you haven't been around when Descent of Dragons was released... xD
on a more serious note, this game historically is terrible and not fun when shaman is good. and it almost never has anything to do with the shaman class itself, it's always because of other cards they're releasing.
I agree, while we're at the topic, I think the design and balance team should get a buff, cause they're complete garbage right now.
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Standard, Wild, and Classic player.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
They had ample time to rethink the design of the Mini-Set.
Did it not occur to them that perhaps Shaman shouldn't have access to better 10 drops? Especially ones that massively reduce the cost of your other cards to make your turns swing even harder? They even printed that 6 mana 10/10 charge if you have 11 mana which means that they're prob going to let Druid get more than 10 mana after Guff gets out.
Also, I thought that the flavor of the Mini-Set was terrible. It's so mixed up that there's barely a consistent theme even for Naxxramas besides minions with the Undead tag.
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Was friends with Paladin, now Death Knights are my homies.
uff you haven't been around when Descent of Dragons was released... xD
on a more serious note, this game historically is terrible and not fun when shaman is good. and it almost never has anything to do with the shaman class itself, it's always because of other cards they're releasing.
just don't play the game. games should be fun.
They say the same thing to Priest & Druid when they are top meta contenders...
It's just never fun when any particular 1-2 classes have higher than 54% winrate... but people hate Priest/Druid/Shaman the most among the classes
It’s cause priest is super annoying and ramp druid and evolve shaman is superhighroll decks any time they are around tier 1, also for the last 3-4 years the same could be said about rouge, rouge is no longer a class that requires skill to pilot but a manacheating atrocity
its not only shaman. Why even design a whole miniset when all u need is a turn 6 combo OTK with 5 neutral cards, so its playable and IS played in every class (so fa rogue seems most consistent with it).
It's quite funny as best players still play mostly Rogue and find it the most powerful. But yea, these early evolves are toxic. I'm upset as I was able to get good results with Big Shaman and it will probably be hurt with nerfs. Still maybe they will just fix Neptulon/Blazing Transmutation bug and buff Thaddius to 9 mana so it cannot be evolved into? Or increase Blazing Transmutation cost to 2 mana?
i think nerfing Gnoll to 11 will do the most. It doesnt kill Gnoll itself completely but u cant chat out a 10 drop way too early since gnoll would be the only 11drop in the standard pool. and also increase cost of Transmutation i agree. 1 mana tranform AND choose which one AAAND also use as soft hex for opponent, like come on
I already got legend before the mini set because i knew this would happen. Thaddius is a bad design card at least they put it to discount to 1 mana not 0 LOL ...
just an awful time to ply the game. Team 5 just will never learn…
But they do learn. They learned that majority of people will continue to play the game and/or buy stuff no matter what they throw at them. The only ones who will never learn are certain players. I’m not going to name them. They know who they are.
They had ample time to rethink the design of the Mini-Set.
No they didn’t. In case you didn’t know, expansions and mini-sets are designed and scheduled to be released in advance. They didn’t design the mini-set AFTER they released the Lich King expansion. They designed it at the same time as the expansion.
It's quite funny as best players still play mostly Rogue and find it the most powerful. But yea, these early evolves are toxic. I'm upset as I was able to get good results with Big Shaman and it will probably be hurt with nerfs. Still maybe they will just fix Neptulon/Blazing Transmutation bug and buff Thaddius to 9 mana so it cannot be evolved into? Or increase Blazing Transmutation cost to 2 mana?
The only change that would be make the game more fair is to have minions that are played at a reduced mana cost to NOT reset their mana cost once played. In other words, if you play Gnoll at 0 mana, then it STAYS at 0 mana so you can evolve it into a 1 mana minion. This change will prevent so many unnecessary needs to certain minions who are fine but are problematic with the evolve mechanic.
Remember Uldum expansion? There was a Shaman minion 7 mana 3/4 with rush that costs 1 less for each minion in play. That minion was fine but it was nerfed because of the Evolve Lackey and the minion became pretty much useless without that lackey.
We also had a Summoning Stone in Karazhan expansion that summoned a minion with the cost equal to the cost of the spell played.
So yeah, while this change will help a lot, I don’t see it happening because cheating out Big Minions on turn 1 is the main reason why everyone is running evolve spells. It also makes players feel powerful and will most likely make them more addicted to the game, which is what Blizzard wants.
What otk exactly are you talking about? Never encountered anything like this since the mini set realesed
It’s that Bonelord, Thadius, Brann, Zola and Alexstrasza. When Bonelord dies, you play Thadius for 0 mana and the other minions will cost 1 mana since they are odd. These are all neutral cards, so any deck can use them but Rogues do it better because they have Shadowsteps and lots of draw.
Now, I don’t believe there will be any serious changes before the rotation, because Gnoll, Brann and other cards will rotate and well, this might be hard to believe, but these cards are promoting the expansion and the mini-set.
So yeah, either take a break but when you come back, you sell your kidneys and house in order to catch up (thanks for the price increase), or keep farming gold but at the cost of your mental health. Or quit the game and find another hobby. Make your choice!
Wait why are people surprised that bonelord opens the doors to OTKs? That's the entire point of the card, you get insane mana cheat and have to use it before dying. It's not like ridiculous things weren't possible with him pre mini-set, plus you need to gather a load of combo cards in hand and have bonelord die first, it's not like it comes out fast enough to not let people play the game.
Turn 3 10 drops is far, far more offensive and I'd be happy if gnoll just got redesigned. 5 mana 5/5 rush, costs (2) less if you have 8 or more cards in hand or something.
I feel like adding a Manathirst cost to Blazing Transmutation could be appropriate. If it was just a targeted evolve, but if you had 5+ mana it added the discover component.
No they didn’t. In case you didn’t know, expansions and mini-sets are designed and scheduled to be released in advance. They didn’t design the mini-set AFTER they released the Lich King expansion. They designed it at the same time as the expansion.
Yet they took their sweet time nerfing a location that spawned a stealthed 8/8. They had nearly two months to look at the current state of Standard Hearthstone to adjust their mini-set which was made in advance. This would mean that they would have plenty of time to look back at their cards and slightly re-adjust them. Even playtesting them would be enough for them to know that these cards would be issues. I still won't let them off the hook for the Patron + Corpse Explosion interaction that they should've seen coming ever since they had to resolve Defile + Patron.
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Was friends with Paladin, now Death Knights are my homies.
I have zero hope for the game now. They keep printing mana cheating cards which result in stupidly early, game winning plays. This expac. has created an OTK deck using Thadius that can kill on turn 6 and shaman decks that can reliably get a good 10 mana minion on turn 2 - 4. Even a relatively "fair" paladin deck can dump a colossal amount of stats on turn 6/7 then follow up with (you guessed it) more mana cheat to steal games in the late game.
We're back to an OTK-aggro counter meta which is just shit and basically represents the battle of "who drew the best". So much fun!
I firmly believe the devs have zero idea what they're doing at this stage (or are cynically just milking the player base for every last cent before it dies).
I think there's a reason why content creators are moving away from HS to other games - they're just not having fun, and if you're playing 5 days a week there has to be some enjoyment.
p.s. "Discover" as a key-word needs to die. It's an over used, un-fun mechanic which, like other keywords, should have stayed with the expac it was created in.
I don’t understand why they don’t make a quick easy change to brann, something like “your first battlecry every turn is doubled”. Would help stop some of the BS combos that are around. Also the card was given for free for the season they should be gutting that card while it’s in standard, After the first few months of abuse.
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I’ve never seen standard in a place where it is right now. I’ve played 12 games today and 11 of them were against Shamans. Something about a t2 10cost with windfury or the new 11/11 taunt seems a little OP haha.
just an awful time to ply the game. Team 5 just will never learn…
uff you haven't been around when Descent of Dragons was released... xD
on a more serious note, this game historically is terrible and not fun when shaman is good. and it almost never has anything to do with the shaman class itself, it's always because of other cards they're releasing.
just don't play the game. games should be fun.
I agree, while we're at the topic, I think the design and balance team should get a buff, cause they're complete garbage right now.
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
Completely agree.
They had ample time to rethink the design of the Mini-Set.
Did it not occur to them that perhaps Shaman shouldn't have access to better 10 drops? Especially ones that massively reduce the cost of your other cards to make your turns swing even harder? They even printed that 6 mana 10/10 charge if you have 11 mana which means that they're prob going to let Druid get more than 10 mana after Guff gets out.
Also, I thought that the flavor of the Mini-Set was terrible. It's so mixed up that there's barely a consistent theme even for Naxxramas besides minions with the Undead tag.
Was friends with Paladin, now Death Knights are my homies.
They say the same thing to Priest & Druid when they are top meta contenders...
It's just never fun when any particular 1-2 classes have higher than 54% winrate... but people hate Priest/Druid/Shaman the most among the classes
It’s cause priest is super annoying and ramp druid and evolve shaman is superhighroll decks any time they are around tier 1, also for the last 3-4 years the same could be said about rouge, rouge is no longer a class that requires skill to pilot but a manacheating atrocity
its not only shaman. Why even design a whole miniset when all u need is a turn 6 combo OTK with 5 neutral cards, so its playable and IS played in every class (so fa rogue seems most consistent with it).
standard is unplayable right now
It's quite funny as best players still play mostly Rogue and find it the most powerful. But yea, these early evolves are toxic. I'm upset as I was able to get good results with Big Shaman and it will probably be hurt with nerfs. Still maybe they will just fix Neptulon/Blazing Transmutation bug and buff Thaddius to 9 mana so it cannot be evolved into? Or increase Blazing Transmutation cost to 2 mana?
i think nerfing Gnoll to 11 will do the most. It doesnt kill Gnoll itself completely but u cant chat out a 10 drop way too early since gnoll would be the only 11drop in the standard pool. and also increase cost of Transmutation i agree. 1 mana tranform AND choose which one AAAND also use as soft hex for opponent, like come on
UUU Death Knight feels completely unfair, and suspect that its consistency will give it better numbers than Evolve Shaman.
Evolve Shaman’s best draw of T2 premier 10 drop is impossible to beat, but it’s a 3 card combo and needs the coin to work.
What otk exactly are you talking about? Never encountered anything like this since the mini set realesed
Mages who can freeze the 10 drop(s) every turn until they kill you and Rogues with perfect Concoctions easily beat Evolve Shaman.
But yes, this shouldn't be in the game and everyone and their mother will play Evolve Shaman or the mentioned counters.
This month I wanted to try triple Legend, but Standard is a mess right now and I don't think the devs will act soon enough.
Hey. =)
Bonelord Frostwhisper + Thaddius + Brann + Alexstrasza etc
I already got legend before the mini set because i knew this would happen. Thaddius is a bad design card at least they put it to discount to 1 mana not 0 LOL ...
But they do learn. They learned that majority of people will continue to play the game and/or buy stuff no matter what they throw at them. The only ones who will never learn are certain players. I’m not going to name them. They know who they are.
No they didn’t. In case you didn’t know, expansions and mini-sets are designed and scheduled to be released in advance. They didn’t design the mini-set AFTER they released the Lich King expansion. They designed it at the same time as the expansion.
The only change that would be make the game more fair is to have minions that are played at a reduced mana cost to NOT reset their mana cost once played. In other words, if you play Gnoll at 0 mana, then it STAYS at 0 mana so you can evolve it into a 1 mana minion.
This change will prevent so many unnecessary needs to certain minions who are fine but are problematic with the evolve mechanic.
Remember Uldum expansion? There was a Shaman minion 7 mana 3/4 with rush that costs 1 less for each minion in play. That minion was fine but it was nerfed because of the Evolve Lackey and the minion became pretty much useless without that lackey.
We also had a Summoning Stone in Karazhan expansion that summoned a minion with the cost equal to the cost of the spell played.
So yeah, while this change will help a lot, I don’t see it happening because cheating out Big Minions on turn 1 is the main reason why everyone is running evolve spells. It also makes players feel powerful and will most likely make them more addicted to the game, which is what Blizzard wants.
It’s that Bonelord, Thadius, Brann, Zola and Alexstrasza. When Bonelord dies, you play Thadius for 0 mana and the other minions will cost 1 mana since they are odd. These are all neutral cards, so any deck can use them but Rogues do it better because they have Shadowsteps and lots of draw.
Now, I don’t believe there will be any serious changes before the rotation, because Gnoll, Brann and other cards will rotate and well, this might be hard to believe, but these cards are promoting the expansion and the mini-set.
So yeah, either take a break but when you come back, you sell your kidneys and house in order to catch up (thanks for the price increase), or keep farming gold but at the cost of your mental health. Or quit the game and find another hobby. Make your choice!
Wait why are people surprised that bonelord opens the doors to OTKs? That's the entire point of the card, you get insane mana cheat and have to use it before dying. It's not like ridiculous things weren't possible with him pre mini-set, plus you need to gather a load of combo cards in hand and have bonelord die first, it's not like it comes out fast enough to not let people play the game.
Turn 3 10 drops is far, far more offensive and I'd be happy if gnoll just got redesigned. 5 mana 5/5 rush, costs (2) less if you have 8 or more cards in hand or something.
I feel like adding a Manathirst cost to Blazing Transmutation could be appropriate. If it was just a targeted evolve, but if you had 5+ mana it added the discover component.
Yet they took their sweet time nerfing a location that spawned a stealthed 8/8. They had nearly two months to look at the current state of Standard Hearthstone to adjust their mini-set which was made in advance. This would mean that they would have plenty of time to look back at their cards and slightly re-adjust them. Even playtesting them would be enough for them to know that these cards would be issues. I still won't let them off the hook for the Patron + Corpse Explosion interaction that they should've seen coming ever since they had to resolve Defile + Patron.
Was friends with Paladin, now Death Knights are my homies.
I have zero hope for the game now. They keep printing mana cheating cards which result in stupidly early, game winning plays. This expac. has created an OTK deck using Thadius that can kill on turn 6 and shaman decks that can reliably get a good 10 mana minion on turn 2 - 4. Even a relatively "fair" paladin deck can dump a colossal amount of stats on turn 6/7 then follow up with (you guessed it) more mana cheat to steal games in the late game.
We're back to an OTK-aggro counter meta which is just shit and basically represents the battle of "who drew the best". So much fun!
I firmly believe the devs have zero idea what they're doing at this stage (or are cynically just milking the player base for every last cent before it dies).
I think there's a reason why content creators are moving away from HS to other games - they're just not having fun, and if you're playing 5 days a week there has to be some enjoyment.
p.s. "Discover" as a key-word needs to die. It's an over used, un-fun mechanic which, like other keywords, should have stayed with the expac it was created in.
Kripp told them 6 years ago that mana cheat would ruin the game. he was right.
I don’t understand why they don’t make a quick easy change to brann, something like “your first battlecry every turn is doubled”. Would help stop some of the BS combos that are around. Also the card was given for free for the season they should be gutting that card while it’s in standard, After the first few months of abuse.