I personally dont think they should ever completely kill anything, but I also don't think the quest rewards should basically win you the game. The pirate quest reward is almost balanced (except that.. 1) the quest is too easy to complete, 2) has rediculous tempo/draw while completing it, and 3) the high-roll potential is extremely frustrating)
As for the hunter quest, the main problems (as I see it) are the lack of board interactivity and blizzards fascination with pushing "hunter go face" deck design. Once the quest is complete it turns into a hero power snorefest determined almost exclusively by how much card draw they have in hand. The potential damage output is enormous and certainly feels as oppresive as the mage quest did before it was nerfed, but the hunter struggles more stalling against aggro decks.
This is one of the main issues with current quest decks when they become meta. They warp the meta around themselves and the match-ups become a race to kill the opponent before they complete.
I dont know but for me it is not so much broken.. Yeah I see you idea it is strong, but what is not right now? Every single class have broken deck and you cant do anything if they get their hand.. Even the hunter is not great if you are unlucky to draw..
I dont know but for me it is not so much broken.. Yeah I see you idea it is strong, but what is not right now? Every single class have broken deck and you cant do anything if they get their hand.. Even the hunter is not great if you are unlucky to draw..
There are dozens of decks that counter Q hunter
The many problems with this one have been listed in this thread already. - It's very uninteractive, because they can just hit your face repeatedly with spells and there's nothing you can do about it (even playing spell tech cards like trogg don't do anything since their spells are way enough to kill them without ever getting any benefit from them) - Every single game feels exactly the same, since their deck focuses on only one thing and pretty much needs no minions at all to work - It's very damaging to the meta, as it's so strong and so specific that it shifts way too much of it around itself - It's so strong that it's literally been around or above 60% winrate consistently since the beginning of the expansion, at all levels of play, as far as i know - It's also extremely limiting in design space, because it's so strong that every card has to be balanced around not making it even more busted (which... well to be fair i feel like that's barely been a concern, so far, on design side, but that's kind of another topic i guess)
In short: it being too strong is obviously a problem, but not even the main problem; the main problem is mostly the negative impact it has on the quality of the game as a whole. And yes, i believe that this one card has this big of an effect on the game as a whole.
The amount of cheap spells is a problem. They have 10 4 mana or less damaging spells and none of them are bad.
You can make a deck with 20 cards just damaging spells and that is a problem.
The quest wouldn't be a problem if they didn't have such a big amount of spells
No. The spells themselves aren't the issue. Given what they are as cards at face value and most are ok/average to decent at best. But combine them with Tavish's reward and enable them to refresh a 0 mana hero power? Broken as hell.
If Dwarven District never existed as a quest, I doubt half these spells would see play. As a class hunter has way better and more effective ways to hit face otherwise. The only thing keeping a lot of these cards in any sort of lime light at all is this quest.
Take Rapid Fire. 2 mana to deal 2 damage. Not terrible value I suppose if you're judging the card on its own face value but hunter has better out there. Yet this deck can make max value out of it because it IS dirt cheap, something aggro worships, and it even replaces itself with Twinspell.
Same thing with either of the 1 mana deal 1 damage and summon a 1/1 beast token spells, but worse. Neither are terrible or game breaking on their own but this quest adores them because of their cheapness...the tokens are just pleasant bonuses the deck doesn't give two craps for. Would they see very much play if not used in this deck? Probably not. Not that great at removal or tempo since all you get is a 1/1 token out of those spells. And if you're using them for the burn there's better hunter cards the class has that can even target both minions OR face, not one or either.
Most of the spells this deck gets to use are glorified piles of "meh" without this quest, period. If not for the face their cheap costs helps with the hero power refresh, they wouldn't see play at all.
Honestly it's because of that I think this quest should be banned outright. IF this quest can make even trash tier spells seem broken, then you know something's wrong with the card's design.
Blizz finally balled up and banned Warlock and nerfed Warrior's multiple times. I think the ban is the most viable option for hunter if they refuse to nerf it for what ever reason. It ruins hunter as a class because now Blizz has to be weary of any decent spell they print at all in the future busting the deck even worse. Thus severely limiting design space.
Diamond at the moment. Changed from Curselock to Prestordruid to fly from d10 to d5 with one loss. And I don't think Beast Hunter eats Quest Hunter, they have quite even matchup.
I dont know but for me it is not so much broken.. Yeah I see you idea it is strong, but what is not right now? Every single class have broken deck and you cant do anything if they get their hand.. Even the hunter is not great if you are unlucky to draw..
There are dozens of decks that counter Q hunter
You are so wrong. What kind of broken deck does Warlock currently (before expansion) have? Curselock? Murlocklock has better results and both are tier 3. Warrior is tier 4.
Quest Hunter is countered by Druids, Paladins, Mech Mage and Boar Priest. Also good Bomb Rogues. Not exactly a dozen of options and half of the classess just do not have counter against it.
And according to HSReplay Hunter has 53,8% winrate and is unquestionable leader. Second Mage has only 50,9%. That's 3% of difference, huge gap.
Generally Questlines should take longer to fullfill. They reward should be ready at about t8 at earliest.
Questlinehunter is so annoying play against. And I‘m playing only wild where there have enough carddraw, too. It seems there is nearly no weakness for this deck. Of course you can make a counterdeck just for them. But this means you will probably loose against any other decks.
Not funny at all. They should really nerf it to play 2-3 spells more and it still would be ok. I just can speak for wild here.
Generally Questlines should take longer to fullfill. They reward should be ready at about t8 at earliest.
Questlinehunter is so annoying play against. And I‘m playing only wild where there have enough carddraw, too. It seems there is nearly no weakness for this deck. Of course you can make a counterdeck just for them. But this means you will probably loose against any other decks.
Not funny at all. They should really nerf it to play 2-3 spells more and it still would be ok. I just can speak for wild here.
In wild I never saw any quest hunter after D5 it must be like T2 at best but it's not as strong as Tier 1 decks so no need to nerf it (for wild), people just don't play it anymore because the meta is just "big thing turn 2-4" then he autolose against every T1 or just decks with a lot of healing/armor like Denathrius Druid or some things like that
0 mana is ok but he should play for board - give him 2 uses of hero power every turn that will refresh if he kills enemy minion notg on casting spell. also 0 mana hero power should cary over if he swaps the hero power.
and make stage 1 require killing enemy minion with a spell rather dealing damage with spells so he cant point face and get a progress on quest.
Well I‘m playing lower ranks and it‘s still unfunny. Even the first day of expansion release I nearly only faced them.
But the point for me is if you have to fullfil a questline it should never be finished at T5/T6 and it should be more to do every step. Not the same or less as you have more mana. In which game you have to do less or the same to level up or something? Doesn‘t make sence.
The reward should more be something like C‘thun.
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I personally dont think they should ever completely kill anything, but I also don't think the quest rewards should basically win you the game. The pirate quest reward is almost balanced (except that.. 1) the quest is too easy to complete, 2) has rediculous tempo/draw while completing it, and 3) the high-roll potential is extremely frustrating)
As for the hunter quest, the main problems (as I see it) are the lack of board interactivity and blizzards fascination with pushing "hunter go face" deck design. Once the quest is complete it turns into a hero power snorefest determined almost exclusively by how much card draw they have in hand. The potential damage output is enormous and certainly feels as oppresive as the mage quest did before it was nerfed, but the hunter struggles more stalling against aggro decks.
This is one of the main issues with current quest decks when they become meta. They warp the meta around themselves and the match-ups become a race to kill the opponent before they complete.
Just making the hero power cost 1 would make it far more balanced.
Ladder is almost exclusively Hunter, last 6 games: 5 hunters, 1 rogue.
I don't think the quest itself is the problem.
The amount of cheap spells is a problem. They have 10 4 mana or less damaging spells and none of them are bad.
You can make a deck with 20 cards just damaging spells and that is a problem.
The quest wouldn't be a problem if they didn't have such a big amount of spells
Still easier to nerf 1 quest than many cheap spells.
I dont know but for me it is not so much broken.. Yeah I see you idea it is strong, but what is not right now? Every single class have broken deck and you cant do anything if they get their hand.. Even the hunter is not great if you are unlucky to draw..
There are dozens of decks that counter Q hunter
The many problems with this one have been listed in this thread already.
- It's very uninteractive, because they can just hit your face repeatedly with spells and there's nothing you can do about it (even playing spell tech cards like trogg don't do anything since their spells are way enough to kill them without ever getting any benefit from them)
- Every single game feels exactly the same, since their deck focuses on only one thing and pretty much needs no minions at all to work
- It's very damaging to the meta, as it's so strong and so specific that it shifts way too much of it around itself
- It's so strong that it's literally been around or above 60% winrate consistently since the beginning of the expansion, at all levels of play, as far as i know
- It's also extremely limiting in design space, because it's so strong that every card has to be balanced around not making it even more busted (which... well to be fair i feel like that's barely been a concern, so far, on design side, but that's kind of another topic i guess)
In short: it being too strong is obviously a problem, but not even the main problem; the main problem is mostly the negative impact it has on the quality of the game as a whole. And yes, i believe that this one card has this big of an effect on the game as a whole.
No. The spells themselves aren't the issue. Given what they are as cards at face value and most are ok/average to decent at best. But combine them with Tavish's reward and enable them to refresh a 0 mana hero power? Broken as hell.
If Dwarven District never existed as a quest, I doubt half these spells would see play. As a class hunter has way better and more effective ways to hit face otherwise. The only thing keeping a lot of these cards in any sort of lime light at all is this quest.
Take Rapid Fire. 2 mana to deal 2 damage. Not terrible value I suppose if you're judging the card on its own face value but hunter has better out there. Yet this deck can make max value out of it because it IS dirt cheap, something aggro worships, and it even replaces itself with Twinspell.
Same thing with either of the 1 mana deal 1 damage and summon a 1/1 beast token spells, but worse. Neither are terrible or game breaking on their own but this quest adores them because of their cheapness...the tokens are just pleasant bonuses the deck doesn't give two craps for. Would they see very much play if not used in this deck? Probably not. Not that great at removal or tempo since all you get is a 1/1 token out of those spells. And if you're using them for the burn there's better hunter cards the class has that can even target both minions OR face, not one or either.
Most of the spells this deck gets to use are glorified piles of "meh" without this quest, period. If not for the face their cheap costs helps with the hero power refresh, they wouldn't see play at all.
Honestly it's because of that I think this quest should be banned outright. IF this quest can make even trash tier spells seem broken, then you know something's wrong with the card's design.
Blizz finally balled up and banned Warlock and nerfed Warrior's multiple times. I think the ban is the most viable option for hunter if they refuse to nerf it for what ever reason. It ruins hunter as a class because now Blizz has to be weary of any decent spell they print at all in the future busting the deck even worse. Thus severely limiting design space.
I don't think quest hunter is a threat right now. Renathal countered it, aggro countered it.
which rank are you at?
I'm at legend wild and platinum standard and barely see any hunter :-?
in standard I'm enjoying big beast hunter now, eat quest hunter most of time.
Diamond at the moment. Changed from Curselock to Prestordruid to fly from d10 to d5 with one loss. And I don't think Beast Hunter eats Quest Hunter, they have quite even matchup.
You are so wrong. What kind of broken deck does Warlock currently (before expansion) have? Curselock? Murlocklock has better results and both are tier 3. Warrior is tier 4.
Quest Hunter is countered by Druids, Paladins, Mech Mage and Boar Priest. Also good Bomb Rogues. Not exactly a dozen of options and half of the classess just do not have counter against it.
And according to HSReplay Hunter has 53,8% winrate and is unquestionable leader. Second Mage has only 50,9%. That's 3% of difference, huge gap.
Don't also forget that dumb naga that deal damage to face every time you cast a damaging spell, even on minions.
still think that hunter need nerf after new expansion release? I think that there is sooooooo much bigger problem with druid
Yes, it still need nerfs, even with shaman and druid dominating the meta.
Nerfing Wild Seeds weapon from 4-2 to 3-2 does little to nothing, lol. Also Implock Nerf does next to nothing. Both decks will still remain S Tier.
Generally Questlines should take longer to fullfill. They reward should be ready at about t8 at earliest.
Questlinehunter is so annoying play against. And I‘m playing only wild where there have enough carddraw, too. It seems there is nearly no weakness for this deck. Of course you can make a counterdeck just for them. But this means you will probably loose against any other decks.
Not funny at all. They should really nerf it to play 2-3 spells more and it still would be ok. I just can speak for wild here.
In wild I never saw any quest hunter after D5 it must be like T2 at best but it's not as strong as Tier 1 decks so no need to nerf it (for wild), people just don't play it anymore because the meta is just "big thing turn 2-4" then he autolose against every T1 or just decks with a lot of healing/armor like Denathrius Druid or some things like that
0 mana is ok but he should play for board - give him 2 uses of hero power every turn that will refresh if he kills enemy minion notg on casting spell. also 0 mana hero power should cary over if he swaps the hero power.
and make stage 1 require killing enemy minion with a spell rather dealing damage with spells so he cant point face and get a progress on quest.
Well I‘m playing lower ranks and it‘s still unfunny. Even the first day of expansion release I nearly only faced them.
But the point for me is if you have to fullfil a questline it should never be finished at T5/T6 and it should be more to do every step. Not the same or less as you have more mana. In which game you have to do less or the same to level up or something? Doesn‘t make sence.
The reward should more be something like C‘thun.