Maybe the card would be more fun if it just added random treasures or one of each? The 10 cards are prone to deck burn/mill but maybe we don't want Tickatus to be our savior? I think "more but random" would still be fun and powerful, but less outright game deciding :)
I think Kazakusan in itself is fine in terms of power, although he does kill my dream of value control returning to glory. If played on turn 8 he's a very late win condition compared to the many OTKs we have at the moment, but in Druid he's not healthy for the meta since he can be played as early as turn 2-3, and commonly on 4-6.
It is very similar to how in Gadgetzan there was Jade Druid, which pushed literally every other value control deck out of popularity. Kazakusan Druids are doing the same but for all forms of (non-Shaman) control, which obviously sucks for people who like to play control but not Shaman, or who might not own enough Shaman cards.
To be clear, the deck isn't overpowered, it just unhealthy for the game because of its lopsided matchups. If it had closer to a 55-60% winrate against control and 40-45% against aggro then it wouldn't be that bad, but in reality it's more like 75%/25%.
The only reason Control Shaman can beat Kaz Druid is cuz sometimes you can play Lightning Bloom + Mutanus b4 they play Kaz, which highlights a big issue imo: disruption in Hearthstone SUCKS.
Its either powerful and the match becomes "can I draw it in time? If yes I win, if not I lose", or its not powerful enough and therefore irrelevant. It feels bad if its weak, but feels even worse if its strong, so what do we do?
Its a difficult dilemma to solve, cuz powercreep is necessary for the game to survive, but they cant powercreep disruption cuz of gameplay feels, meaning it will never keep up with the rest of the game, the end result being cards like Kazakusan being impossible to deal with for most slow strategies.
The need for good disruption creates a lose-lose situation, I myself am not sure what the answer to it is, if it even exists.
The only reason Control Shaman can beat Kaz Druid is cuz sometimes you can play Lightning Bloom + Mutanus b4 they play Kaz, which highlights a big issue imo: disruption in Hearthstone SUCKS.
Its either powerful and the match becomes "can I draw it in time? If yes I win, if not I lose", or its not powerful enough and therefore irrelevant. It feels bad if its weak, but feels even worse if its strong, so what do we do?
Its a difficult dilemma to solve, cuz powercreep is necessary for the game to survive, but they cant powercreep disruption cuz of gameplay feels, meaning it will never keep up with the rest of the game, the end result being cards like Kazakusan being impossible to deal with for most slow strategies.
The need for good disruption creates a lose-lose situation, I myself am not sure what the answer to it is, if it even exists.
Good point! Although, maybe having more consistent disruption wouldn't be too bad? As in multiple mediocre cards. For value decks that rely on ONE card it stinks, but those decks were always frustrating. For OTKs it's detrimental, but they were never really supposed to be meta defining anyway, since the game is (supposedly) balanced around aggro<control<mid-range.
For a long time we've had decks that relied on a single card (whatever the purpose). Those decks never felt that good to play against. Classic HS decks rarely did that (except miracle rogue). So I'd be cool with a neutral gnomeferatu and maybe some hand discard too.
The only reason Control Shaman can beat Kaz Druid is cuz sometimes you can play Lightning Bloom + Mutanus b4 they play Kaz, which highlights a big issue imo: disruption in Hearthstone SUCKS.
Its either powerful and the match becomes "can I draw it in time? If yes I win, if not I lose", or its not powerful enough and therefore irrelevant. It feels bad if its weak, but feels even worse if its strong, so what do we do?
Its a difficult dilemma to solve, cuz powercreep is necessary for the game to survive, but they cant powercreep disruption cuz of gameplay feels, meaning it will never keep up with the rest of the game, the end result being cards like Kazakusan being impossible to deal with for most slow strategies.
The need for good disruption creates a lose-lose situation, I myself am not sure what the answer to it is, if it even exists.
Good point! Although, maybe having more consistent disruption wouldn't be too bad? As in multiple mediocre cards. For value decks that rely on ONE card it stinks, but those decks were always frustrating. For OTKs it's detrimental, but they were never really supposed to be meta defining anyway, since the game is (supposedly) balanced around aggro<control<mid-range.
For a long time we've had decks that relied on a single card (whatever the purpose). Those decks never felt that good to play against. Classic HS decks rarely did that (except miracle rogue). So I'd be cool with a neutral gnomeferatu and maybe some hand discard too.
I really really hope Dirty Rat comes to the core set. Was such a good tool for mid-control decks that could even be decent against aggro. Not a totally brain-dead card either, because whatever (and whenever) you pull something out of your opponents hand you have to be ready and abler to deal with it too. Not too many classes want to have to deal with a 8/8 (or 8/6 after killing the rat) on turn 3/4.
I was quite enjoying the swinginess of Kazakusan at first, but it got old for me fast. Mirror matches are somewhat unfun, usually decided by whoever gets there first, and sometimes decided by the power level of the discovers.
The duels treasure cards are stupidly powerful and can't usually be played around once they're doing their thing. I did not enjoy duels because of how it feels to play against treasures with normal cards.
I wonder if Kazakusan could be reworked to give you a choice of a small number of treasures to shuffle into your deck, to make the treasures come online much later. To be healthy, it needs to be a lategame reward for a midrange dragons deck, not the win condition of what is basically a combo deck whose sole purpose is to cast it as quickly as possible.
Problem with the card imo is it's a further incentive to play decks that don't run minions and don't fight for the board. This used to be the core of the game. Now you kind of feel like an idiot each time you play some minions.
Now we have:
• Quest Hunter
• Quest Mage
• Mozaki Mage
• Quest warlock (some variants)
• The new superfair&awesome Tickatus&Kazakusan warlock
• Poison rogue
• OTK Demon Hunter
• Spell druid
None of this actually plays for board. Add into the mix face hunter that basically only plays the minions as a direct means to go face. And the beautiful pirate warrior that too isn't that fond of trading as he is of going face. Nice meta, must admit, really nice meta.
It's not the hearthstone I fell in love with at all - which allowed me to play mid-ranmge decks, where I adapted my playstyle to what the opponent was doing, and fought for the board.
I see no sign of this gameplay ever coming back. The win conditions in the game right now are the furthest thing from balanced. They are impossible to adapt to or survive, and they come down early (relatively). Kazakusan is just a further extension of the same shit, with an added element of randomness to just really rub the salt in - Duels was unpopular IMO precisely becasue it was annoying to be on the recieving end of broken shit - now we get that in constructed?
Battlegrounds continues to prop the game up, as it has now for long time.
Kazakusan was fun to screw around with the first day... I haven't touched it since. However I don't mind the card or druid doing nothing on the first 4-5 turns and then proceed to die before turn 8 I'm fine with that.
However as all metas in the last years, everything becomes extremly boring very fast. The game lacks diversity. It doesn't matter what cards get released, something is always that much better than the rest. Most players don't even bother try out anything which leads to stall, boring and predictable gameplay.
Btw I don't play aggro nor combo decks. I like minion combat and currently I'm climbing with my dragon/buff hybrid paladin. As fine as the deck is I'm not enjoying the meta to much.
Tl:dr Kazakusan didn't do anything great. We just got a new deck to beat.
While i like that control is back, i'm kinda sad it's in a 1 card random neutral win condition as it makes lots of control decks have a similar feel and centralizes control decks to exclude interesting diversity in order to play it
Problem with the card imo is it's a further incentive to play decks that don't run minions and don't fight for the board. This used to be the core of the game. Now you kind of feel like an idiot each time you play some minions.
Now we have:
• Quest Hunter
• Quest Mage
• Mozaki Mage
• Quest warlock (some variants)
• The new superfair&awesome Tickatus&Kazakusan warlock
• Poison rogue
• OTK Demon Hunter
• Spell druid
None of this actually plays for board. Add into the mix face hunter that basically only plays the minions as a direct means to go face. And the beautiful pirate warrior that too isn't that fond of trading as he is of going face. Nice meta, must admit, really nice meta.
I think powercreep drove them into a corner. Designing impactful strategies that care about the board became way more difficult cuz they also made removal better and more efficient. So they decided to take the easy way out and make off-board strategies more powerful instead, but they forgot they cant powercreep hand disruption to even things out cuz its a terrible fit for hearthstone.
So now the game needs more hand disruption but they cant make more, leaving off-board strategies virtually uncounterable by slower decks. They created a problem but cant sell the solution, so what now? I think this is their biggest balancing issue since the birth of standard.
ngl i had my share with all 3 types of kazakusan decks that are mentioned and at first it was really fun and interesting to play and even play against it. In the beginning it was experimantal and you didnt know what to expect which is something always good to see in standart but i got repetitive so quickly and it turned out be same stuff all the time. Unluckily druid abuses it soo hard it started bug me right now. I believe like everyone without ramp stuff kazakusan would be more of a normal good card, yet it is not and i dont know if everyone will enjoy endless kazakusans one more month at least if nothing is done
still though i believe it is a cool card and i am glad they do out of the box stuff like this glhf everyone i wish you all the best treasures..!
Absolutely unhealty. Meta became something like throw all your control spells until u play that bitch ass dragon. Thats it. If Blizz would have added some more dragons to this mini-set, maybe midrange players could enjoy that bitch ass dragon too.
So now I am on my way to diamond with a Quest Pirate, wich is still enjoyable even after the nerf :)
Kaz Druid still warping the meta after losing Locusts to the nerf, what a stupid mess.
This proves the problem with the card is not the power level of the treasures, its how EASY it is for druid to bring them online. Locusts was just the best out of many cards that would still be totally busted if you're able to play them as early as turn 6 or 7.
They are gonna have to nerf it AGAIN, giving it a real restriction that matches its power level (its basically a neutral questline reward w/o quest steps, so DUMB), cuz the other option is to not give druid any decent ramp support for a whole year (yeah right).
This year of the Gryphon is probably the worst year HS ever had since Witchwood, stupid awful design choices all year round that really pale in comparison with last year of the Phoenix, and even Year of the Dragon before that. Lets hope rotation puts the game back on track, until then im out.
Maybe the card would be more fun if it just added random treasures or one of each? The 10 cards are prone to deck burn/mill but maybe we don't want Tickatus to be our savior? I think "more but random" would still be fun and powerful, but less outright game deciding :)
I think Kazakusan in itself is fine in terms of power, although he does kill my dream of value control returning to glory. If played on turn 8 he's a very late win condition compared to the many OTKs we have at the moment, but in Druid he's not healthy for the meta since he can be played as early as turn 2-3, and commonly on 4-6.
It is very similar to how in Gadgetzan there was Jade Druid, which pushed literally every other value control deck out of popularity. Kazakusan Druids are doing the same but for all forms of (non-Shaman) control, which obviously sucks for people who like to play control but not Shaman, or who might not own enough Shaman cards.
To be clear, the deck isn't overpowered, it just unhealthy for the game because of its lopsided matchups. If it had closer to a 55-60% winrate against control and 40-45% against aggro then it wouldn't be that bad, but in reality it's more like 75%/25%.
The only reason Control Shaman can beat Kaz Druid is cuz sometimes you can play Lightning Bloom + Mutanus b4 they play Kaz, which highlights a big issue imo: disruption in Hearthstone SUCKS.
Its either powerful and the match becomes "can I draw it in time? If yes I win, if not I lose", or its not powerful enough and therefore irrelevant. It feels bad if its weak, but feels even worse if its strong, so what do we do?
Its a difficult dilemma to solve, cuz powercreep is necessary for the game to survive, but they cant powercreep disruption cuz of gameplay feels, meaning it will never keep up with the rest of the game, the end result being cards like Kazakusan being impossible to deal with for most slow strategies.
The need for good disruption creates a lose-lose situation, I myself am not sure what the answer to it is, if it even exists.
Good point! Although, maybe having more consistent disruption wouldn't be too bad? As in multiple mediocre cards. For value decks that rely on ONE card it stinks, but those decks were always frustrating. For OTKs it's detrimental, but they were never really supposed to be meta defining anyway, since the game is (supposedly) balanced around aggro<control<mid-range.
For a long time we've had decks that relied on a single card (whatever the purpose). Those decks never felt that good to play against. Classic HS decks rarely did that (except miracle rogue). So I'd be cool with a neutral gnomeferatu and maybe some hand discard too.
I really really hope Dirty Rat comes to the core set. Was such a good tool for mid-control decks that could even be decent against aggro. Not a totally brain-dead card either, because whatever (and whenever) you pull something out of your opponents hand you have to be ready and abler to deal with it too. Not too many classes want to have to deal with a 8/8 (or 8/6 after killing the rat) on turn 3/4.
I was quite enjoying the swinginess of Kazakusan at first, but it got old for me fast. Mirror matches are somewhat unfun, usually decided by whoever gets there first, and sometimes decided by the power level of the discovers.
The duels treasure cards are stupidly powerful and can't usually be played around once they're doing their thing. I did not enjoy duels because of how it feels to play against treasures with normal cards.
I wonder if Kazakusan could be reworked to give you a choice of a small number of treasures to shuffle into your deck, to make the treasures come online much later. To be healthy, it needs to be a lategame reward for a midrange dragons deck, not the win condition of what is basically a combo deck whose sole purpose is to cast it as quickly as possible.
Problem with the card imo is it's a further incentive to play decks that don't run minions and don't fight for the board. This used to be the core of the game. Now you kind of feel like an idiot each time you play some minions.
Now we have:
• Quest Hunter
• Quest Mage
• Mozaki Mage
• Quest warlock (some variants)
• The new superfair&awesome Tickatus&Kazakusan warlock
• Poison rogue
• OTK Demon Hunter
• Spell druid
None of this actually plays for board. Add into the mix face hunter that basically only plays the minions as a direct means to go face. And the beautiful pirate warrior that too isn't that fond of trading as he is of going face. Nice meta, must admit, really nice meta.
Quest Mage and Mozaki Mage are worthless now, OTK Demon Hunter is not a thing in this meta also.
It's not the hearthstone I fell in love with at all - which allowed me to play mid-ranmge decks, where I adapted my playstyle to what the opponent was doing, and fought for the board.
I see no sign of this gameplay ever coming back. The win conditions in the game right now are the furthest thing from balanced. They are impossible to adapt to or survive, and they come down early (relatively). Kazakusan is just a further extension of the same shit, with an added element of randomness to just really rub the salt in - Duels was unpopular IMO precisely becasue it was annoying to be on the recieving end of broken shit - now we get that in constructed?
Battlegrounds continues to prop the game up, as it has now for long time.
Healthy enough to make me play shadow priest and spam "Brilliant" as they play Kazakusan before they die.
Kazakusan was fun to screw around with the first day... I haven't touched it since. However I don't mind the card or druid doing nothing on the first 4-5 turns and then proceed to die before turn 8 I'm fine with that.
However as all metas in the last years, everything becomes extremly boring very fast. The game lacks diversity. It doesn't matter what cards get released, something is always that much better than the rest. Most players don't even bother try out anything which leads to stall, boring and predictable gameplay.
Btw I don't play aggro nor combo decks. I like minion combat and currently I'm climbing with my dragon/buff hybrid paladin. As fine as the deck is I'm not enjoying the meta to much.
Tl:dr Kazakusan didn't do anything great. We just got a new deck to beat.
While i like that control is back, i'm kinda sad it's in a 1 card random neutral win condition as it makes lots of control decks have a similar feel and centralizes control decks to exclude interesting diversity in order to play it
very healthy
Dead but dreaming
Unhealthy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz9VD7NDBsk
I think powercreep drove them into a corner. Designing impactful strategies that care about the board became way more difficult cuz they also made removal better and more efficient. So they decided to take the easy way out and make off-board strategies more powerful instead, but they forgot they cant powercreep hand disruption to even things out cuz its a terrible fit for hearthstone.
So now the game needs more hand disruption but they cant make more, leaving off-board strategies virtually uncounterable by slower decks. They created a problem but cant sell the solution, so what now? I think this is their biggest balancing issue since the birth of standard.
WoW i tried to build a deck with Kazakusan before and somehow it felt weak...until today i realized, how it really works.
How can those morons fail so hard on describing what the card does? lol stupid ass punk noobs...
Why even mention dragons on that shit..just say "when your deck is empty", at least then it does, what it says.
I guess, after all, there are even people double checking and testing the cards before they release them.
Fuck man, how stupid can they be...wow
ngl i had my share with all 3 types of kazakusan decks that are mentioned and at first it was really fun and interesting to play and even play against it. In the beginning it was experimantal and you didnt know what to expect which is something always good to see in standart but i got repetitive so quickly and it turned out be same stuff all the time. Unluckily druid abuses it soo hard it started bug me right now. I believe like everyone without ramp stuff kazakusan would be more of a normal good card, yet it is not and i dont know if everyone will enjoy endless kazakusans one more month at least if nothing is done
still though i believe it is a cool card and i am glad they do out of the box stuff like this glhf everyone i wish you all the best treasures..!
Absolutely unhealty. Meta became something like throw all your control spells until u play that bitch ass dragon. Thats it. If Blizz would have added some more dragons to this mini-set, maybe midrange players could enjoy that bitch ass dragon too.
So now I am on my way to diamond with a Quest Pirate, wich is still enjoyable even after the nerf :)
Kaz Druid still warping the meta after losing Locusts to the nerf, what a stupid mess.
This proves the problem with the card is not the power level of the treasures, its how EASY it is for druid to bring them online. Locusts was just the best out of many cards that would still be totally busted if you're able to play them as early as turn 6 or 7.
They are gonna have to nerf it AGAIN, giving it a real restriction that matches its power level (its basically a neutral questline reward w/o quest steps, so DUMB), cuz the other option is to not give druid any decent ramp support for a whole year (yeah right).
This year of the Gryphon is probably the worst year HS ever had since Witchwood, stupid awful design choices all year round that really pale in comparison with last year of the Phoenix, and even Year of the Dragon before that. Lets hope rotation puts the game back on track, until then im out.
Card is fine.
Druid is not fine.