Hearthpwn

Quote from Strongboar >>

[...the main purpose of any game is to have fun.]

 and here's your wrong assumption. at least for most players playing Hearthstone. for them the main purpose of the game is to win, not to have fun. and there lie all the problems of the game. it comes down to the players. it always does. and always will. moral compass is obsolete. winrate is the one and only god here.

Quote from GibreelFury >>

Quote from Strongboar >>

[...the main purpose of any game is to have fun.]

 and here's your wrong assumption. at least for most players playing Hearthstone. for them the main purpose of the game is to win, not to have fun. and there lie all the problems of the game. it comes down to the players. it always does. and always will. moral compass is obsolete. winrate is the one and only god here.

 

The thing is, you cant blame the players for using the best decks, even if they are "less fun" (whatever that means to you).  The game is definitely more fun when you win (aren't all games?), and for some people this is all you need.  For others, they need to win to get to whatever pre-determined point they class as success that month, and that's tied to the rewards and ladder system.

I don't know what the solution is though, because there will always be a best deck and there will/(should) always be a counter to that deck and consqeuently those decks make up the majority of the meta.  What Blizz should aim to avoid (imo) is cards which kill entire archetypes on their own and we've had a huge number of them from the last few expansions.  Kazak is just another one to add to the list.

exactly this, at the beginning you lost because of slightly overpowered cards, but now it just seems more frustrating playing a game that aims for quick and easy cellphone games ß even that rock paper scissors theme is just bad if it is way to simple and plain

The only problem is that you can play it without the restrictions if you are just running spells. The control warrior that uses it is completely fine (also runs other dragons). I would say "Discover a treasure for each dragon in your deck". So that you NEED to run dragons. The more the better the card is. 

Maybe add more treasures into the pool but some classes have some treasures prohibited. And maybe change the requirement to play dragons before you can get the treasures. 

It's a lot about the context too, the space around Kazakusan right now, with druid having 20mana and doubling spells for example. Or Jambre's quest Kaz DH with sentinels, doing some stupid things in a single turn. 

Have to wait for the rotation and that's it for now. I'm guessing if there is fast refinement and we get a similar situation they will smack Kaz down so it becomes the bottleneck for these Turbo decks.

it's as healthy as any other card, there is nothing wrong in particular with Kazakusan, other than being played a lot and being frustrating to face because of that, but then you complain about the very concept of metagame, which has nothing to do with Kazakusan.

Every deck has counters and if they don't, they get nerfed.

Also for people saying you should actually HAVE dragons in your deck when activating Kazakusan effect, I mean that's great and all, makes sense given the card text and flavor, but that just means Kazakusan will see no play at all, and everyone knows that. You couldn't just have a few dragons in your deck, because you're at risk of drawing all your dragons before given the chance to play Kazakusan. So you'd have to play actual dragon decks, and who does that in 2022, nobody, cause dragons suck. It is pretty obvious Kaz was meant to be played when you have nothing left in your deck, despite the dragon oriented card text. He literally replaces your deck with other stuff. The dragons left in your deck would be of no use other than being a text activator.

Basically, the card is fine, and if you don't like facing the same cards and decks over and over again, maybe you should consider quitting competitive online games. And if you think about it, it's not the meta that sucks. It's the people who make it. You shouldn't blame it on any card.

There's really 3 simple options for anti-meta people out there :

-Keep making off meta decks and bring some fun to the ladder. Every time you face an opponent, they face an off meta deck, there's a high chance you make someone like you happy every time that happens. And this will encourage others to do the same, and maybe face you one day.

-if you can't beat it, join it. That's why metas exist to begin with.

-Quit.

I just completed a long and painful slog from Diamond 10 to 5.  I saw a lot of Kazakusan Druid.  I also saw a lot of other decks.  There was a lot of diversity out there.   Demon Hunter w/ quest/hero card/Kazakusan, Quest Hunter with and without secrets and Face Hunter, both Shadow and Quest Priest, Big spell Mage and Wildfire Mage, SI:7 Rogue, Pirate Warrior and Control Warrior with Kazakusan, Shaman with quest or no quest, Doomhammer, and/or freeze, Libram and Buff Paladin, non-Kazakusan Druids including Taunt, Beast w/ Kazakusan and some other variations.   

It was my budget account, and I was able to get most of the cards to play Libram Paladin.  Cariel's weapon is a counter to many of the decks out there, including Kazakusan's face damage cards. I added in Lord Barov, one Equality, one Consecration because there were so many big minions being made.  

I would say that Kazakusan has been good for the meta health based on the variety of decks being played. 

Sto playing when it came out seeing how u have no chance of winning against it.maybe if it had a battlecry as if u are holding 3 dragons in hand. Then it won’t come out on turn3

Meta was just as varied AND less polarized before Onyxia's Lair. That period right after rogue got nerfed, we had one of the healthiest and diverse metas in a long time.

Kaz won't be as healthy for the meta Kaz warrior gets decent replacement tools for what it loses.

So you people think the problem with druid is kazakusan instead of the insane amount of ramp they have?

Quote from JJSawry >>

Meta was just as varied AND less polarized before Onyxia's Lair. That period right after rogue got nerfed, we had one of the healthiest and diverse metas in a long time.

Kaz won't be as healthy for the meta Kaz warrior gets decent replacement tools for what it loses.

 100% this. I remember genuinely enjoying the game during this period and being afraid of how they would screw it up with the mini set. What they ended up coming out with was worse than i expected.

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

it's as healthy as any other card, there is nothing wrong in particular with Kazakusan, other than being played a lot and being frustrating to face because of that, but then you complain about the very concept of metagame, which has nothing to do with Kazakusan.

Every deck has counters and if they don't, they get nerfed.

Also for people saying you should actually HAVE dragons in your deck when activating Kazakusan effect, I mean that's great and all, makes sense given the card text and flavor, but that just means Kazakusan will see no play at all, and everyone knows that. You couldn't just have a few dragons in your deck, because you're at risk of drawing all your dragons before given the chance to play Kazakusan. So you'd have to play actual dragon decks, and who does that in 2022, nobody, cause dragons suck. It is pretty obvious Kaz was meant to be played when you have nothing left in your deck, despite the dragon oriented card text. He literally replaces your deck with other stuff. The dragons left in your deck would be of no use other than being a text activator.

Basically, the card is fine, and if you don't like facing the same cards and decks over and over again, maybe you should consider quitting competitive online games. And if you think about it, it's not the meta that sucks. It's the people who make it. You shouldn't blame it on any card.

There's really 3 simple options for anti-meta people out there :

-Keep making off meta decks and bring some fun to the ladder. Every time you face an opponent, they face an off meta deck, there's a high chance you make someone like you happy every time that happens. And this will encourage others to do the same, and maybe face you one day.

-if you can't beat it, join it. That's why metas exist to begin with.

-Quit.

 This argument is willfully obtuse from the start because the problematic kazakusan decks don’t play him “when you have nothing else in your deck” at all and that’s precisely the problem. If that is the scenario in which the card is meant to be used then it should just add the treasures to your existing deck instead of potentially replacing it outright on turn 3/4/5 with ramp. That would make it very strong in the late game with some swing potential earlier on instead of a guaranteed onslaught of treasures back to back every time he drops.

Quote from brother >>

 This argument is willfully obtuse from the start because the problematic kazakusan decks don’t play him “when you have nothing else in your deck” at all and that’s precisely the problem. If that is the scenario in which the card is meant to be used then it should just add the treasures to your existing deck instead of potentially replacing it outright on turn 3/4/5 with ramp. That would make it very strong in the late game with some swing potential earlier on instead of a guaranteed onslaught of treasures back to back every time he drop

 On the other hand it also mean that control decks can outplay Kaz druid. It also means that druid may have to wait playing Kaz if they also want a cenarion ward and solar eclipse. You have a fair chance to outplay them since it's basically only two boards you need to clear. Like 1 mass polymorph and 1 devolving missiles. Ramp druid was the worst performing deck in GM's since everybody knew how to play around it now. turn 1 trogg almost auto wins.

Quote from YourPersonalGuru >>

Quote from brother >>

 This argument is willfully obtuse from the start because the problematic kazakusan decks don’t play him “when you have nothing else in your deck” at all and that’s precisely the problem. If that is the scenario in which the card is meant to be used then it should just add the treasures to your existing deck instead of potentially replacing it outright on turn 3/4/5 with ramp. That would make it very strong in the late game with some swing potential earlier on instead of a guaranteed onslaught of treasures back to back every time he drop

 On the other hand it also mean that control decks can outplay Kaz druid. It also means that druid may have to wait playing Kaz if they also want a cenarion ward and solar eclipse. You have a fair chance to outplay them since it's basically only two boards you need to clear. Like 1 mass polymorph and 1 devolving missiles. Ramp druid was the worst performing deck in GM's since everybody knew how to play around it now. turn 1 trogg almost auto wins.

I don’t really see anything wrong with control being capable of outplaying a board-based deck. What i’m proposing is that yes, Druids should be playing through their actual cards such as Cenarion Ward etc. before being able to play Kazakusan to potentially close out the game. Also if the treasures were added to their existing deck they could still draw into them at any point, just not guaranteed every turn. It would be like a better version of Prestor which I believe is a fair card with considerable swing potential.

Also i don’t doubt that GMs would be able to play around Druids at this point, but at the same time these tournaments allow you to view the other competitor’s decks before you head into a match, so you would already know what to mulligan for and what your game plan would need to be unless you draw badly or your strategy is directly countered by your opponent. It’s not directly comparable to ladder unless i’m wrong about the format of the championship.

Card is fine, Guff giving druids 20 mana and the possibility to cheat the treasures (duplicate next spell or drawing and playing treasures in the same turn) is broken.

Quote from brother >>

I don’t really see anything wrong with control being capable of outplaying a board-based deck. What i’m proposing is that yes, Druids should be playing through their actual cards such as Cenarion Ward etc. before being able to play Kazakusan to potentially close out the game. Also if the treasures were added to their existing deck they could still draw into them at any point, just not guaranteed every turn. It would be like a better version of Prestor which I believe is a fair card with considerable swing potential.

Also i don’t doubt that GMs would be able to play around Druids at this point, but at the same time these tournaments allow you to view the other competitor’s decks before you head into a match, so you would already know what to mulligan for and what your game plan would need to be unless you draw badly or your strategy is directly countered by your opponent. It’s not directly comparable to ladder unless i’m wrong about the format of the championship.

 Nothing wrong at all! I think it's great! :)

I think the only disagreement we have here is weather they may or shall have to go through the rest of their deck. I think it's better if druid has to ask himself "do I tempo out Kaz now or try to go for long term value?" "Is it worth it to wait for a solar eclipse or should I try to close the game fast?". I believe that a lot of the actual thought process to the deck is lost if you can play Kaz anytime...

Change it to random treasures so as to lose control over what happens. Getting to pick the treasures allows the player to pick the most powerful/game changing treasures.

At least Kazakusan has no meaning whatsoever after rotation...

I'm not so sure. The new druid deck with Kaz seems quite violent. I have not seen any other class playing it, though. 
There are 2 cards that I really don't like in standard : Kazakusan and Mr Smite. The lead cards from the 2 last packages, what a surprise...
Mr Smite is still very boring, we'll see about Kaz but I have a bad feeling.