It was really frustrating to see changes this bad. I don't want to just complain, but common. Midrange and Control are just dead at this point. You can have games past turn 10. If you see mage - you lost already. If you see warlock - face race him or you are dead by turn 7. You can also play paladin, but you will lose to mage or warlock.
My last game was super fun, though. On turn 9 mage drew 12 cards, discovered 2, killed all my minions and dealt 20 damage face.
What is the solution? Right, make flesh giant cost 1 more mana.
I like this game a lot, but this is too much. Patches was not that cancerous than this mess.
P.s. Good thing they update battlegrounds. It is not yet as bad, as normal and wild modes.
Best version of Q lock doesn't play stealer, so technically now all we're going to see is the most optimised version. I'm not sure if doing something about the quests is going to hurt some designer's feelings but they're obviously not going to deal with the root of the problem.
I like how you complain about warlock but conveniently left out the part were Stealer of Souls got increased by 2 Mana.
Meta is polarized, we allready know, D6 Warlock might now just be slow enough to almost always get stomped by aggro, which might lead to a significant decrease in its popularity which in return might lead to control finally being viable again (as there will only be a single 100% unwinable matchup left.
But you still get warlock's 'destroy your deck' archetype, that is pretty good against aggro, and that will kill you with fatigue damage. But still, what is a problem to nerf mage? Do they really need infinite '2 mana, deal from 5 to 10000 damage ' card? And no, control won't be a thing in meta, which contains cards like Ignite or warlock quest.
Yeah, honestly, I’ve mostly been playing Fel Demon Hunter which has decent matchups against a good portion of the meta, including Warlock in most of its forms. The only deck that feels impossibly bad to play against every time is quest Mage. There’s no counter play, no ability to race them down, and it’s basically an auto loss every time. It’s just an absurdly unbalanced archetype
Yeah, honestly, I’ve mostly been playing Fel Demon Hunter which has decent matchups against a good portion of the meta, including Warlock in most of its forms. The only deck that feels impossibly bad to play against every time is quest Mage. There’s no counter play, no ability to race them down, and it’s basically an auto loss every time. It’s just an absurdly unbalanced archetype
No, there are plenty of decks that beat Quest Mage, just not yours.
If your deck had no bad match-ups, YOURS would be the unbalanced one. The fact that mages always beat you shows that the meta is OK. It's not great that so many match-ups across the board are so polarized, but it's better than having just one or two decks that beat everything else.
The giant change is lazy and greedy. They don't want to hit the root, so they hack at the branches. Fine, but Giant is a dual class card that sees no play in the other class and was not broken prior to this expansion. Just change the actual problem!
Not spend a cent on mercenary or HS. At this rate, I’ll just save dust on the demon seed, and roll with that until I’m tired of the game and quit all together (they actually made the game cheaper lol)
Yeah, honestly, I’ve mostly been playing Fel Demon Hunter which has decent matchups against a good portion of the meta, including Warlock in most of its forms. The only deck that feels impossibly bad to play against every time is quest Mage. There’s no counter play, no ability to race them down, and it’s basically an auto loss every time. It’s just an absurdly unbalanced archetype
I don't know what kind of Fel Demon Hunter you are playing, but the 'normal' version is doing fine against Mage: You don't play any minions so they have a hard time casting frost spells to complete their quest (you can play some minions, but make sure to kill them yourself with your lifesteal spells to deny them targets). They don't play any minions so your Fel Barrage goes face (that can be 2x8 damage face if coupled with a spell damage minion). All the damage they do to you before they complete the quest is irrelevant as you run so much healing that you can always heal back up to 30. In the end it is a race of them completing the quest, playing the reward AND drawing enough burn to OTK you (as you can always heal back up otherwise) and you finding and playing Jace or discounting some Il'Gynoth pieces to kill them. In my experience it is really a 50-50 matchup
Paladin doesn't lose to Handlock, on the contrary, both Handbuff and Secret Paladin counter him quite hard, because he basically has no way to deal with beefed-up, divine shield minions and constant pressure (even Soul Rend is not enough).
Zoo Lock is no more (died after the previous patch), D6 Warlock is probably dead too (2 more mana for SoS is a huge deal), so Handlock is the only one left in standard, and all what quest does for him (most of the time) is: Deal 13 damage to yourself. Reward: Deal 6 damage with lifesteal to the opponent. I'd say it's far from problematic. Final reward is not a thing in like 90% games, because it's too slow in current meta (specific build is needed to speed it up, but there's none viable in standard).
Paladin doesn't lose to Handlock, on the contrary, both Handbuff and Secret Paladin counter him quite hard, because he basically has no way to deal with beefed-up, divine shield minions and constant pressure (even Soul Rend is not enough).
Zoo Lock is no more (died after the previous patch), D6 Warlock is probably dead too (2 more mana for SoS is a huge deal), so Handlock is the only one left in standard, and all what quest does for him (most of the time) is: Deal 13 damage to yourself. Reward: Deal 6 damage with lifesteal to the opponent. I'd say it's far from problematic. Final reward is not a thing in like 90% games, because it's too slow in current meta (specific build is needed to speed it up, but there's none viable in standard).
True, but warlock quest terminates an entire (control) archetype from the game just by the way it's designed. Sure, in current meta warlock losses to some classes etc, but the point is in its quest design philosophy, which just takes a dump on one of the core game mechanics - fatigue. Well, not takes a dump but uses it to its own advantage.
True, but warlock quest terminates an entire (control) archetype from the game just by the way it's designed. Sure, in current meta warlock losses to some classes etc, but the point is in its quest design philosophy, which just takes a dump on one of the core game mechanics - fatigue. Well, not takes a dump but uses it to its own advantage.
This is not the whole picture though. Warlock's quest may be considered part of the problem, but not the problem itself. Unfortunately, It's not like you can remove it and then everything will be back to normal, because there are other quests with inevitability mechanics, like Mage, Shaman, Hunter or even Priest (it's very slow compared to others, but does the same).
There is also another thing, how should control decks lose their games then? Because it's obvious that they have to lose against something, right? But if not against combo decks, then what?
True, but warlock quest terminates an entire (control) archetype from the game just by the way it's designed. Sure, in current meta warlock losses to some classes etc, but the point is in its quest design philosophy, which just takes a dump on one of the core game mechanics - fatigue. Well, not takes a dump but uses it to its own advantage.
This is not the whole picture though. Warlock's quest may be considered part of the problem, but not the problem itself. Unfortunately, It's not like you can remove it and then everything will be back to normal, because there are other quests with inevitability mechanics, like Mage, Shaman, Hunter or even Priest (it's very slow compared to others, but does the same).
There is also another thing, how should control decks lose their games then? Because it's obvious that they have to lose against something, right? But if not against combo decks, then what?
I agree with you. Mage with ignite breaks the fatigue rule the same as warlock. By itself ignite and quest in mage are ok but combined together they ruin control again. Shaman is not broken imo, just annoying, can be dealt with. Priest is slow as combo decks should be to win against control.
The problem is now combo (OTK ones) decks can kill you turn 6-7 easy and you can't really counter it. They nerfed DH OTK (which was not interactive at all), but left rogue with garrote shenanagins untouched. I got obliterrated vs garrote deck everytime i play anyting than aggro hunter which i personally do not like, but what choice do i have?
Once again - imo combo decks should be as slow and skill capped (more or less) as control decks for situation to be fair. When you got killed turn 6 with combo deck - this just feel wrong. Combo should be hard to pull out. Now rogue, quest hunter, warlock, mage etc do it by just playing on curve..
I'd say standard Warlock has been addressed properly already, since Handlock cannot kill you with fatigue sooner than on turn 10-11. It's still inevitable, but it's now in line with the old combo decks in terms of speed.
Now they should do something about Mage, Shaman, Hunter, Rogue and DH.
It was really frustrating to see changes this bad. I don't want to just complain, but common. Midrange and Control are just dead at this point. You can have games past turn 10. If you see mage - you lost already. If you see warlock - face race him or you are dead by turn 7. You can also play paladin, but you will lose to mage or warlock.
My last game was super fun, though. On turn 9 mage drew 12 cards, discovered 2, killed all my minions and dealt 20 damage face.
What is the solution? Right, make flesh giant cost 1 more mana.
I like this game a lot, but this is too much. Patches was not that cancerous than this mess.
P.s. Good thing they update battlegrounds. It is not yet as bad, as normal and wild modes.
Best version of Q lock doesn't play stealer, so technically now all we're going to see is the most optimised version. I'm not sure if doing something about the quests is going to hurt some designer's feelings but they're obviously not going to deal with the root of the problem.
I like how you complain about warlock but conveniently left out the part were Stealer of Souls got increased by 2 Mana.
Meta is polarized, we allready know, D6 Warlock might now just be slow enough to almost always get stomped by aggro, which might lead to a significant decrease in its popularity which in return might lead to control finally being viable again (as there will only be a single 100% unwinable matchup left.
But you still get warlock's 'destroy your deck' archetype, that is pretty good against aggro, and that will kill you with fatigue damage. But still, what is a problem to nerf mage? Do they really need infinite '2 mana, deal from 5 to 10000 damage ' card? And no, control won't be a thing in meta, which contains cards like Ignite or warlock quest.
Yeah, honestly, I’ve mostly been playing Fel Demon Hunter which has decent matchups against a good portion of the meta, including Warlock in most of its forms. The only deck that feels impossibly bad to play against every time is quest Mage. There’s no counter play, no ability to race them down, and it’s basically an auto loss every time. It’s just an absurdly unbalanced archetype
No, there are plenty of decks that beat Quest Mage, just not yours.
If your deck had no bad match-ups, YOURS would be the unbalanced one. The fact that mages always beat you shows that the meta is OK. It's not great that so many match-ups across the board are so polarized, but it's better than having just one or two decks that beat everything else.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The giant change is lazy and greedy. They don't want to hit the root, so they hack at the branches. Fine, but Giant is a dual class card that sees no play in the other class and was not broken prior to this expansion. Just change the actual problem!
I dont get it. I played to legend with warrior and on my journey from 30 locks maybe one played Stealer of Souls.
Its not really an important card, because it was to expensive already. Most minions in Qlock are 1-2 mana.
Also, the fatigue deck runs untouched. So yeah, gg on nerfs lol...
Maybe they want the other game modes to suck so, people spend $$$ on mercenaries !
Not spend a cent on mercenary or HS. At this rate, I’ll just save dust on the demon seed, and roll with that until I’m tired of the game and quit all together (they actually made the game cheaper lol)
I don't know what kind of Fel Demon Hunter you are playing, but the 'normal' version is doing fine against Mage: You don't play any minions so they have a hard time casting frost spells to complete their quest (you can play some minions, but make sure to kill them yourself with your lifesteal spells to deny them targets). They don't play any minions so your Fel Barrage goes face (that can be 2x8 damage face if coupled with a spell damage minion). All the damage they do to you before they complete the quest is irrelevant as you run so much healing that you can always heal back up to 30. In the end it is a race of them completing the quest, playing the reward AND drawing enough burn to OTK you (as you can always heal back up otherwise) and you finding and playing Jace or discounting some Il'Gynoth pieces to kill them. In my experience it is really a 50-50 matchup
Paladin doesn't lose to Handlock, on the contrary, both Handbuff and Secret Paladin counter him quite hard, because he basically has no way to deal with beefed-up, divine shield minions and constant pressure (even Soul Rend is not enough).
Zoo Lock is no more (died after the previous patch), D6 Warlock is probably dead too (2 more mana for SoS is a huge deal), so Handlock is the only one left in standard, and all what quest does for him (most of the time) is: Deal 13 damage to yourself. Reward: Deal 6 damage with lifesteal to the opponent. I'd say it's far from problematic. Final reward is not a thing in like 90% games, because it's too slow in current meta (specific build is needed to speed it up, but there's none viable in standard).
True, but warlock quest terminates an entire (control) archetype from the game just by the way it's designed. Sure, in current meta warlock losses to some classes etc, but the point is in its quest design philosophy, which just takes a dump on one of the core game mechanics - fatigue. Well, not takes a dump but uses it to its own advantage.
This is not the whole picture though. Warlock's quest may be considered part of the problem, but not the problem itself. Unfortunately, It's not like you can remove it and then everything will be back to normal, because there are other quests with inevitability mechanics, like Mage, Shaman, Hunter or even Priest (it's very slow compared to others, but does the same).
There is also another thing, how should control decks lose their games then? Because it's obvious that they have to lose against something, right? But if not against combo decks, then what?
I agree with you. Mage with ignite breaks the fatigue rule the same as warlock. By itself ignite and quest in mage are ok but combined together they ruin control again. Shaman is not broken imo, just annoying, can be dealt with. Priest is slow as combo decks should be to win against control.
The problem is now combo (OTK ones) decks can kill you turn 6-7 easy and you can't really counter it. They nerfed DH OTK (which was not interactive at all), but left rogue with garrote shenanagins untouched. I got obliterrated vs garrote deck everytime i play anyting than aggro hunter which i personally do not like, but what choice do i have?
Once again - imo combo decks should be as slow and skill capped (more or less) as control decks for situation to be fair. When you got killed turn 6 with combo deck - this just feel wrong. Combo should be hard to pull out. Now rogue, quest hunter, warlock, mage etc do it by just playing on curve..
@Wogie
I'd say standard Warlock has been addressed properly already, since Handlock cannot kill you with fatigue sooner than on turn 10-11. It's still inevitable, but it's now in line with the old combo decks in terms of speed.
Now they should do something about Mage, Shaman, Hunter, Rogue and DH.