I generally am liking the new expansion, and I think Blizz put some great cards in the set, but I’m starting to notice one big problem with the powercreeped cards from stormwind. The deck strategies and cards this time are making for a very linear strategy and win condition, thus homebrew decks are getting bottlenecked.
Pure paladin will never be a thing again, because battlegrounds battlemaster will never be inferior to the pure package. Same goes for stealth or tempo rogue, you will always have the goal of slamming down a battlemaster on stealthed minions.
I tried a questless handlock, it’s not ever going to be better than quests with flesh giants and BB. Spell damage mage? Nah, play solitaire. I guess what I’m saying is that this isn’t the first expansion that feels like the best deck strategy is obvious, but it is the first expansion that if you aren’t building the obvious deck, you don’t really have a chance. What do other home brewers out there think?
It feels very much like when DH was just released. It didn't matter what you played. You could even make a homebrew deck to counter it specifically and you would still lose, just because of the difference in power level decks are these days.
I believe when you make a deck that isn't tier 1, but you get a very good draw, you should still be able to win. These days you need godlike draw, and even then you need your warlock opponent to draw really really bad to squeeze that win in...
Not wanting to play tier 1 decks but trying to make your own deck work with a reasonable winrate has never felt so bad tbh. Although i'm having a really good time and a very good winrate with Libram pally in standard. They say control is dead, but i mafe it a little more agressive and it's doing really well.
I suppose designing "packages" rather than interesting standalone cards is easier for them. They can make it so cards within a package have extremely powerful synergy with each other, but they won't interact much with other cards and create unintended consequences.
The drawback, of course, is when they do create individually powerful cards like Battleground Battlemaster and Flesh Giant, which will be strong in any reasonably appropriate deck but create absolute monstrosities when it's found that they work well in a prescribed package.
I agree that Hearthstone was probably a better game back when deckbuilding was harder and synergistic packages were not handed to you on a silver platter.
Unfortunately, the goal of the game is to win, not to have fun with card interactions.
So my homebrew deck will always be garbage compared to the fast, optimized decks that the pros play and everyone netdecks. It's just the way it is.
Like, at some point, every good and popular deck was once a homebrew that someone is probably quite proud of. They can't all be winners, though.
And yeah, powercreep to sell packs of the newest expansion, making decks with obvious synergy, then dropping that synergy next expac so they can powercreep something else and sell new packs.
The deck strategies and cards this time are making for a very linear strategy and win condition
I feel like this has been the case for the past few expansions. The decks are all immediately obvious from release. Usually, though, someone eventually breaks through with something creative. We'll see.
I've been playing these variations:
Deathrattle Paladin (goal is to keep stuff on the board for the buff and windfury)
Control Libram Paladin (try to out heal the aggro)
Deathrattle Shadow Priest (just a variation on typical shadow priest running small deathrattles and Teron)
Big Spell Mage
Corrupt Shadow Priest (turns out all the corrupt cards are shadow spells)
...turns out, unsurprisingly, the preprogrammed deck is better in every case. But some of these are good enough to have fun with.
To me, the meta feels most like witchwood, why would you do anything but a genn/Baku deck? I like the comment about DH, that’s very true as well. Right after it was released and Imprisoned Antaenn was 5 mana…
Anyway, here are some of the deck ideas I’ve been trying:
Pure libram handbuff pally: don’t run any weapons. Goal is as much divine shields as possible and use bannerman for draw and buff, fordragon for buff. Use Yriel, Liadrin, multiple libram of hope for win conditions. It does well against mages, very well against hunters and rogues, terrible against warlocks. It can win a few games, but it’s greedier and weaker than just slamming down a battlemaster.
Deathrattle shadow priest: less aggro, more value. Using discovers for holy spells, especially rally. It’s good against hunter and quest rogue as it makes board control a focus and has healing. It loses to mage and warlock.
Handlock warlock: don’t use the quest, old school board control handlock. It’s flat out inferior to quest warlock. It has the same matchups as quest warlock, just weaker.
Celestial alignment big druid: play alignment, ramp into high cost high damage minions. This is my least refined but possibly most promising brew. When it goes off right, turn 4 complete shutdown of all quests. It feels big brain 4d chess, but it’s jank.
Big warrior: control early game, all minions are big damage, play something too big to remove and then battlemaster. This is likely my most successful brew, and it runs battlemaster. Coincidence?
What other homebrews have you guys had success or failure with?
I fully agree with the OP. Creating my own decks has always been a big part of the allure of this game to me, but it feels hopeless now. Or somehow…tiresome? For me, the two biggest offenders are the Warlock and Mage quests plus Ignite. I think having two decks that complete their ”combo” that fast and reliably, while being completely immune to fatigue, is really devastating to the game. There would need to be some way to interact with the quest progression in the first place, and ofc the rewards are completely bonkers when it comes to their power level. Obligatory disclaimer for context: yes, I have reached Legend, and yes, I have been playing since the launch of the game.
Oh, I'm also using a zoolock with Lady Prestor. It probably has a 30% win rate. But when it wins, it involves a 1 mana Alex blasting someone in the face, so it's cool.
My Deck of Chaos Warlock is better than I thought it would be. And if you win with that, it's after getting down to 5 health and then turning it around somehow. There are some new minions that synergize well with Deck of Chaos, and tradeable makes it a little easier to find the big spell.
Funny, like you, my most successful homebrew decks involve battlemaster. What a card.
The deck strategies and cards this time are making for a very linear strategy and win condition
Corrupt Shadow Priest (turns out all the corrupt cards are shadow spells)
This is probably my biggest disappointment from last year. I wanted the corrupt package for priest to be so much better. It fits so good with a flavor perspective, it has a legendary that focuses on corrupt cards… and it’s just bad.
You can't even play Casual Bronze and avoid optimized decks.
I wish Casual mode had a way to exclude a class, then my kids could start having fun again. Right now they just concede against Warlocks and Mages because it isn't fun.
This is probably my biggest disappointment from last year. I wanted the corrupt package for priest to be so much better. It fits so good with a flavor perspective, it has a legendary that focuses on corrupt cards… and it’s just bad.
Well, I wouldn't' say it's bad bad. It works alright in shadowform. Like everything interesting, it's just too slow right now. But I win with it sometimes, and it feels good when I do.
I also think a huge limiting factor that got overlooked is how much core set rotation changed single target interaction. Priest losing silence and mass dispel, rogue losing sap and shiv, hunter losing animal companion and kill command… these have left gaps in classes and are more apparent than ever. I don’t think handbuff paladin or quest warlock would be as strong as it is if these removal tools were still in the game.
This is probably my biggest disappointment from last year. I wanted the corrupt package for priest to be so much better. It fits so good with a flavor perspective, it has a legendary that focuses on corrupt cards… and it’s just bad.
Well, I wouldn't' say it's bad bad. It works alright in shadowform. Like everything interesting, it's just too slow right now. But I win with it sometimes, and it feels good when I do.
Ok, maybe not bad on it’s own, but priest’s corrupt package is lackluster compared to other corrupt packages and outright embarrassing when compared to warlock. I’ve had some success with horrendous growth and rally (it keeps buffs in case you were wondering) or raise dead, but it’s clunky and there is some anti-synergy with Xanesh and card cost reductions to corrupt. I guess I’m just salty because warlock got cascading disaster.
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I generally am liking the new expansion, and I think Blizz put some great cards in the set, but I’m starting to notice one big problem with the powercreeped cards from stormwind. The deck strategies and cards this time are making for a very linear strategy and win condition, thus homebrew decks are getting bottlenecked.
Pure paladin will never be a thing again, because battlegrounds battlemaster will never be inferior to the pure package. Same goes for stealth or tempo rogue, you will always have the goal of slamming down a battlemaster on stealthed minions.
I tried a questless handlock, it’s not ever going to be better than quests with flesh giants and BB. Spell damage mage? Nah, play solitaire. I guess what I’m saying is that this isn’t the first expansion that feels like the best deck strategy is obvious, but it is the first expansion that if you aren’t building the obvious deck, you don’t really have a chance. What do other home brewers out there think?
Yeah I feel the same way.
It feels very much like when DH was just released. It didn't matter what you played. You could even make a homebrew deck to counter it specifically and you would still lose, just because of the difference in power level decks are these days.
I believe when you make a deck that isn't tier 1, but you get a very good draw, you should still be able to win. These days you need godlike draw, and even then you need your warlock opponent to draw really really bad to squeeze that win in...
Not wanting to play tier 1 decks but trying to make your own deck work with a reasonable winrate has never felt so bad tbh. Although i'm having a really good time and a very good winrate with Libram pally in standard. They say control is dead, but i mafe it a little more agressive and it's doing really well.
I suppose designing "packages" rather than interesting standalone cards is easier for them. They can make it so cards within a package have extremely powerful synergy with each other, but they won't interact much with other cards and create unintended consequences.
The drawback, of course, is when they do create individually powerful cards like Battleground Battlemaster and Flesh Giant, which will be strong in any reasonably appropriate deck but create absolute monstrosities when it's found that they work well in a prescribed package.
I agree that Hearthstone was probably a better game back when deckbuilding was harder and synergistic packages were not handed to you on a silver platter.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Unfortunately, the goal of the game is to win, not to have fun with card interactions.
So my homebrew deck will always be garbage compared to the fast, optimized decks that the pros play and everyone netdecks. It's just the way it is.
Like, at some point, every good and popular deck was once a homebrew that someone is probably quite proud of. They can't all be winners, though.
And yeah, powercreep to sell packs of the newest expansion, making decks with obvious synergy, then dropping that synergy next expac so they can powercreep something else and sell new packs.
It's a cycle. I'm grumpy today.
Uhg.
I feel like this has been the case for the past few expansions. The decks are all immediately obvious from release. Usually, though, someone eventually breaks through with something creative. We'll see.
I've been playing these variations:
Deathrattle Paladin (goal is to keep stuff on the board for the buff and windfury)
Control Libram Paladin (try to out heal the aggro)
Deathrattle Shadow Priest (just a variation on typical shadow priest running small deathrattles and Teron)
Big Spell Mage
Corrupt Shadow Priest (turns out all the corrupt cards are shadow spells)
...turns out, unsurprisingly, the preprogrammed deck is better in every case. But some of these are good enough to have fun with.
So… how do you guys manage to have fun?
Take a walk on the wild side...
To me, the meta feels most like witchwood, why would you do anything but a genn/Baku deck? I like the comment about DH, that’s very true as well. Right after it was released and Imprisoned Antaenn was 5 mana…
Anyway, here are some of the deck ideas I’ve been trying:
Pure libram handbuff pally: don’t run any weapons. Goal is as much divine shields as possible and use bannerman for draw and buff, fordragon for buff. Use Yriel, Liadrin, multiple libram of hope for win conditions. It does well against mages, very well against hunters and rogues, terrible against warlocks. It can win a few games, but it’s greedier and weaker than just slamming down a battlemaster.
Deathrattle shadow priest: less aggro, more value. Using discovers for holy spells, especially rally. It’s good against hunter and quest rogue as it makes board control a focus and has healing. It loses to mage and warlock.
Handlock warlock: don’t use the quest, old school board control handlock. It’s flat out inferior to quest warlock. It has the same matchups as quest warlock, just weaker.
Celestial alignment big druid: play alignment, ramp into high cost high damage minions. This is my least refined but possibly most promising brew. When it goes off right, turn 4 complete shutdown of all quests. It feels big brain 4d chess, but it’s jank.
Big warrior: control early game, all minions are big damage, play something too big to remove and then battlemaster. This is likely my most successful brew, and it runs battlemaster. Coincidence?
What other homebrews have you guys had success or failure with?
I fully agree with the OP. Creating my own decks has always been a big part of the allure of this game to me, but it feels hopeless now. Or somehow…tiresome? For me, the two biggest offenders are the Warlock and Mage quests plus Ignite. I think having two decks that complete their ”combo” that fast and reliably, while being completely immune to fatigue, is really devastating to the game. There would need to be some way to interact with the quest progression in the first place, and ofc the rewards are completely bonkers when it comes to their power level. Obligatory disclaimer for context: yes, I have reached Legend, and yes, I have been playing since the launch of the game.
Oh, I'm also using a zoolock with Lady Prestor. It probably has a 30% win rate. But when it wins, it involves a 1 mana Alex blasting someone in the face, so it's cool.
My Deck of Chaos Warlock is better than I thought it would be. And if you win with that, it's after getting down to 5 health and then turning it around somehow. There are some new minions that synergize well with Deck of Chaos, and tradeable makes it a little easier to find the big spell.
Funny, like you, my most successful homebrew decks involve battlemaster. What a card.
This is probably my biggest disappointment from last year. I wanted the corrupt package for priest to be so much better. It fits so good with a flavor perspective, it has a legendary that focuses on corrupt cards… and it’s just bad.
You can't even play Casual Bronze and avoid optimized decks.
I wish Casual mode had a way to exclude a class, then my kids could start having fun again. Right now they just concede against Warlocks and Mages because it isn't fun.
Well, I wouldn't' say it's bad bad. It works alright in shadowform. Like everything interesting, it's just too slow right now. But I win with it sometimes, and it feels good when I do.
I also think a huge limiting factor that got overlooked is how much core set rotation changed single target interaction. Priest losing silence and mass dispel, rogue losing sap and shiv, hunter losing animal companion and kill command… these have left gaps in classes and are more apparent than ever. I don’t think handbuff paladin or quest warlock would be as strong as it is if these removal tools were still in the game.
Ok, maybe not bad on it’s own, but priest’s corrupt package is lackluster compared to other corrupt packages and outright embarrassing when compared to warlock. I’ve had some success with horrendous growth and rally (it keeps buffs in case you were wondering) or raise dead, but it’s clunky and there is some anti-synergy with Xanesh and card cost reductions to corrupt. I guess I’m just salty because warlock got cascading disaster.