Shaman have the most game crippling mechanics atm.
1. Overload
2. If you play an elemantal last turn "you can do otw you can not do this" s.hit thing.
Both mechanics are so conditional and breaking quality of shaman gaming.
Please fix it.
And how would you fix it? I don't find anything wrong with overload, without it such strong cards like lightning bloom would not exist (for better or for worst). If Doomhammer would cost 7 mana upfront would you play it? It may be not the greatest mechanic but it makes shaman different from other classes.
They should just make evolve a permanent shaman mechanic. Apart from pure aggro, ‘cheating’ is the name of the game in modern HS and evolve mechanics seem a perfect way to bring shaman up to speed. Most overload cards wouldn’t get played if they didn’t overload, especially in the current state of the game where stats on minions are practically worthless.
I agree with it, i've been messing with shaman lately, after using an overload card, I can't do practically nothing in my next turn. I love the overload mechanic, I think it's very fun, but this mechanic punishes the player more than rewards him I think. Shaman isn't that bad as people think, his early game is actually pretty decent, but his lategame is kinda meh, plus his draw tools are very limited so it's easy to end up with an empty hand. This class is missing something that will make it able to fight as equals in late game with classes such as warrior or priest, btw Al'Akir is his only heavy card. He is really awkward to play and build, the fact that you have to play elementals every turn makes it hard to fit neutral cards such as wandmaker or 2/4 toad. 3/4 elemental with a spell discover also doesn't make any sense there. You want to have nature spells in your deck if you play toad, but the best shamans spells are neutral or arcane. On top of that, lots of good shaman cards cost 5 and there's no way you could put them all into the deck. I think a shaman should have more healing cards, after all he is a shaman, and I don't really want to play tidal surge plus Kazakus is kinda must have there IMO since his 4 mana cards are so lame. In my opinion, the team responsible for the shaman did a pretty good job when it comes to aggro shaman, but in the current meta, midrange decks are just more efficient. Aggro decks cannot handle the number of aoe and heals that control decks have. I hope he will be better in the next expansion, he has potential and some good cards like Mistrunner (this card is nuts).
Also I miss the spell power totem, 1/1 is useless.
Not that I disagree, I miss the Wrath of Air Totem too it was the best and the prettiest in gold, and the Searing Totem is just kinda bad. But that said, Shaman's Hero Power in general is just kinda bad. That's why I run Charged Hammer in all my decks
Shaman have the most game crippling mechanics atm.
1. Overload
2. If you play an elemantal last turn "you can do otw you can not do this" s.hit thing.
Both mechanics are so conditional and breaking quality of shaman gaming.
Please fix it.
Overload cards can be game breaking if strong enough, as they have in the past.
Also, why didn't you mention totem synergies? Those have been featured in tier 1 decks in the past as well.
Unfortunately, attack buffs have been taken over by other classes (paladin, bah), but that should have been a feature as well, along with swarm synergy and windfury.
As for evolve/devolve, I wish they stopped printing those cards, I dislike both the random outcomes and the flavour.
The mechanics themselves are not the problem. It's the specific cards that are underwhelming.
Eery class's strongest cards are either conditional or have hidden costs. Overload and elemental cards could be powerful, if the design team didn't seem so afraid.
I believe that the only legitimate problem of the Shaman class right now is that Shamans have access to no card draw whatsoever. In a metagame where other classes can consistently go through their entire decks every game or, in Priest's case, can generate endless amounts of extra cards, playing cards that simply discover a card (or worse, generate one random card) is not enough.
I'm absolutely sure that Team 5 is doing this on purpose. They may not be the best at their job, but at the same time they are competent enough to know what's going to work and what's not. Shaman and Warlock can't work at the moment, because they don't have the right tools.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even talking about current meta or particular win rates, but rather Blizzard's design choices. Demon Hunter or Rogue may suck right now (mostly due to Paladin's domination), but they have TONS of great, powerful cards with huge potential and impact. At some point Paladin will get nerfed so Rogue and DH will shine, while Shaman, Warlock (and possibly also Druid, but I still see hope form him) will continue to cry in the corner, because single buff or nerf can't fix their huge shortcomings and design flaws.
Elementary Reaction can be compared to Mimic Pod, but I would say it's straight up better. You need to have played an Elemental last turn for it to be 1 Mana cheaper than Mimic Pod, but even if you didn't play an Elemental last turn it's still a 2 Mana draw 1.
Arid Stormer could be compared to a Crabrider with a Smuggler's Run, sure, Crabrider feels stronger because Smuggler's Run isn't the only buff Paladins use on it, but as a 3 Mana, 2/5, Rush Windfury they are the same, only a Paladin pays 2 cards, and a Shaman pays an Elemental last turn.
Lilypad Lurker is just Hex on a stick. Whether you compare it to the old 3 Mana Hex, or the current 4 Mana Hex, Lilypad Lurker is at worst a 2 Mana 4/5. The only downside being you have to have played an Elemental last turn, but this is partially negated through the fact Lilypad Lurker itself is an Elemental, unlike Hex of course. (And you can't Hex your own Minions anymore or Hex on turn 4, but this is really minor.)
Kalimos, Primal Lord is arguably the best 'Elemental last turn' card of all. His Invocations being very strong for his total cost.
Invocation of Earth is most similar to Stand Against Darkness, you do get an extra Minion, so maybe make it cost 6 Mana. Eitherway this would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 2 or 3 mana 7/7. Though I'm not gonna lie, this Invocation just isn't that good, despite the Mana/Value comparison. Probably better than Onyxia though, for what that's worth.
All those four Invocations with the only downside of an Elemental last turn of course. But the fact you can choose them is a great upside in its own right.
I guess what I'm trying to say with this colourful wall of text is that I believe the Elemental last turn mechanic really isn't as bad as you might think. Though this does depend on the amount of Elementals you have put in your deck of course. But for Wild players like myself, it only gets better and better as more and more viable Elemental cards get printed, even some without the Elemental last turn prerequisite.
Again, feel free to disagree and start a conversation, I'll be happy to discuss.
Also, I didn't go into any Neutral or non-Shaman class Elementals because you did say that Shaman isn't as strong as other classes with its Elementals, so I focused on Shamans Elementals.
I forgot to mention Stone Sentinel. This card of course being similar to Feral Spirit with a 4/4 body on top. Assuming again that 1 Overload = 1 Mana, this would make Stone Sentinel a 3 Mana 4/4. Maybe not the strongest, but you can't have it all, right?
The problem with Kalimos is - while you’re right on the maths - that at the time it comes down, the impact of the invocations isn’t big enough (at least for wild). 3 dmg aoe isn’t enough in the late game (maybe against aggro, but if you can play an eight mana card against board based aggro you already won), the 1/1 invocation is useless, 12 healing is nice but very slow, and the 6 Face dmg is only relevant if your opponent is down to 6 or can’t heal/ clear. The price in value is too high for the gain in flexibility.
And playing an elemental last turn is even more crippling than overload: you have to make suboptimal plays to keep the chain going and if you’re forced to react to something and the chain is broken, most cards are useless
I think that overload should give something extra for extra price, not just what's baseline for other classes. Like Lightning Storm in my opinion always should have worked like Guidance, which means: 3 mana deal 2 damage to all enemy minions. Overload (2): deal additional 1 damage. So you could decide not to overload and just use baseline effect (which is on par with other classes), or pay 2 more mana (which is a little bit much, but it has to be, since it's "borrowed" from next turn), to get extra value.
Warlock has pretty much the same issue. He has to pay extra (with mana, life, cards, own minions, mana crystals etc.) to get baseline (or worse) and that's why both classes suck. Lakkari Felhound has only +3 HP compared to Sen'jin Shieldmasta but the drawback is just crazy! Class cards are usually stronger than neutrals, so it should be at least vanilla 3/8 taunt for 4 mana and with no battlecry (especially if you consider all the power creep since Sen'jin Shieldmasta was printed).
The problem with Kalimos is - while you’re right on the maths - that at the time it comes down, the impact of the invocations isn’t big enough (at least for wild). 3 dmg aoe isn’t enough in the late game (maybe against aggro, but if you can play an eight mana card against board based aggro you already won), the 1/1 invocation is useless, 12 healing is nice but very slow, and the 6 Face dmg is only relevant if your opponent is down to 6 or can’t heal/ clear. The price in value is too high for the gain in flexibility.
And playing an elemental last turn is even more crippling than overload: you have to make suboptimal plays to keep the chain going and if you’re forced to react to something and the chain is broken, most cards are useless
Yeah, but the thing you’re forgetting is that many people use Corrupt the Waters in Elemental decks. Which makes 12 face damage or 24 healing or 6 AOE, which is great.
In my experience this isn't the case. Maybe it's because I play mostly casual so I don't go up against the best of the best of decks. But Kalimos, Primal Lord has rarely been a dead card in my hand. Sure you can't just slam him down whenever like you could Ragnaros the Firelord. And as I said, the Invocation of Earth is just bad, I'll give you that. But especially the Invocation of Air just feels so powerful. It's the one I use the most, and even in the late game it's still often very useful. Of course, if your opponent only has Ragnaros the Firelord on his board, you're not gonna play Kalimos, Primal Lord. But he clears cards like Soulciologist Malicia, or Cannonmaster Smythe. And he cleans up nicely if your minions are just a little to weak to trade.
Furthermore, the Invocation of Water has saved me countless times against a control deck that almost had me dead. And the Invocation of Fire was sometimes just what I needed to kill the opponent.
But maybe I'm just biased cause it's my favorite archetype to play. And sure, as it stands, Elemental Shaman isn't anywhere near an A tier deck. But it's not a pathetic deck either. I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's not a bad mechanic in the slightest, and if you ask me, it's a really fun one even. But don't expect some weird broken combos.
In my experience this isn't the case. Maybe it's because I play mostly casual so I don't go up against the best of the best of decks. But Kalimos, Primal Lord has rarely been a dead card in my hand. Sure you can't just slam him down whenever like you could Ragnaros the Firelord. And as I said, the Invocation of Earth is just bad, I'll give you that. But especially the Invocation of Air just feels so powerful. It's the one I use the most, and even in the late game it's still often very useful. Of course, if your opponent only has Ragnaros the Firelord on his board, you're not gonna play Kalimos, Primal Lord. But he clears cards like Soulciologist Malicia, or Cannonmaster Smythe. And he cleans up nicely if your minions are just a little to weak to trade.
Furthermore, the Invocation of Water has saved me countless times against a control deck that almost had me dead. And the Invocation of Fire was sometimes just what I needed to kill the opponent.
But maybe I'm just biased cause it's my favorite archetype to play. And sure, as it stands, Elemental Shaman isn't anywhere near an A tier deck. But it's not a pathetic deck either. I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's not a bad mechanic in the slightest, and if you ask me, it's a really fun one even. But don't expect some weird broken combos.
When you combine Kalimos with double battlecry, it’s absolutely nuts. You can do double healing or damage or pick a little healing and damage.
Shaman have the most game crippling mechanics atm.
1. Overload
2. If you play an elemantal last turn "you can do otw you can not do this" s.hit thing.
Both mechanics are so conditional and breaking quality of shaman gaming.
Please fix it.
Don't you dare talk shit about Elemental Shaman
Fuhgeddaboudit
And how would you fix it? I don't find anything wrong with overload, without it such strong cards like lightning bloom would not exist (for better or for worst). If Doomhammer would cost 7 mana upfront would you play it? It may be not the greatest mechanic but it makes shaman different from other classes.
They should just make evolve a permanent shaman mechanic. Apart from pure aggro, ‘cheating’ is the name of the game in modern HS and evolve mechanics seem a perfect way to bring shaman up to speed. Most overload cards wouldn’t get played if they didn’t overload, especially in the current state of the game where stats on minions are practically worthless.
I agree with it, i've been messing with shaman lately, after using an overload card, I can't do practically nothing in my next turn. I love the overload mechanic, I think it's very fun, but this mechanic punishes the player more than rewards him I think.
Shaman isn't that bad as people think, his early game is actually pretty decent, but his lategame is kinda meh, plus his draw tools are very limited so it's easy to end up with an empty hand. This class is missing something that will make it able to fight as equals in late game with classes such as warrior or priest, btw Al'Akir is his only heavy card.
He is really awkward to play and build, the fact that you have to play elementals every turn makes it hard to fit neutral cards such as wandmaker or 2/4 toad. 3/4 elemental with a spell discover also doesn't make any sense there. You want to have nature spells in your deck if you play toad, but the best shamans spells are neutral or arcane. On top of that, lots of good shaman cards cost 5 and there's no way you could put them all into the deck. I think a shaman should have more healing cards, after all he is a shaman, and I don't really want to play tidal surge plus Kazakus is kinda must have there IMO since his 4 mana cards are so lame.
In my opinion, the team responsible for the shaman did a pretty good job when it comes to aggro shaman, but in the current meta, midrange decks are just more efficient. Aggro decks cannot handle the number of aoe and heals that control decks have. I hope he will be better in the next expansion, he has potential and some good cards like Mistrunner (this card is nuts).
Also I miss the spell power totem, 1/1 is useless.
You do realise that the Wrath of Air Totem was replaced with the Strength Totem, and not the Searing Totem, right?
Not that I disagree, I miss the Wrath of Air Totem too it was the best and the prettiest in gold, and the Searing Totem is just kinda bad. But that said, Shaman's Hero Power in general is just kinda bad. That's why I run Charged Hammer in all my decks
Fuhgeddaboudit
Overload cards can be game breaking if strong enough, as they have in the past.
Also, why didn't you mention totem synergies? Those have been featured in tier 1 decks in the past as well.
Unfortunately, attack buffs have been taken over by other classes (paladin, bah), but that should have been a feature as well, along with swarm synergy and windfury.
As for evolve/devolve, I wish they stopped printing those cards, I dislike both the random outcomes and the flavour.
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The mechanics themselves are not the problem. It's the specific cards that are underwhelming.
Eery class's strongest cards are either conditional or have hidden costs. Overload and elemental cards could be powerful, if the design team didn't seem so afraid.
I believe that the only legitimate problem of the Shaman class right now is that Shamans have access to no card draw whatsoever. In a metagame where other classes can consistently go through their entire decks every game or, in Priest's case, can generate endless amounts of extra cards, playing cards that simply discover a card (or worse, generate one random card) is not enough.
You forgot the most iconic shaman mechanic atm: loose
Long years I have studied, now I serve the Lich KIng
I enjoyed Overload Decks in the past that had some sort of payoff-card. The current set of cards is missing that.
I would change elemental into "If a last card u played was elemental" then do something
I'm absolutely sure that Team 5 is doing this on purpose. They may not be the best at their job, but at the same time they are competent enough to know what's going to work and what's not. Shaman and Warlock can't work at the moment, because they don't have the right tools.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even talking about current meta or particular win rates, but rather Blizzard's design choices. Demon Hunter or Rogue may suck right now (mostly due to Paladin's domination), but they have TONS of great, powerful cards with huge potential and impact. At some point Paladin will get nerfed so Rogue and DH will shine, while Shaman, Warlock (and possibly also Druid, but I still see hope form him) will continue to cry in the corner, because single buff or nerf can't fix their huge shortcomings and design flaws.
"battlecry: if you played an elemental last turn, do something underwhelming that most any other class can do without the stipulation"
I would disagree with this, but feel free to have a conversation with me.
Cards like Elementary Reaction, Arid Stormer, Lilypad Lurker, and definitely Kalimos, Primal Lord feel like pretty strong cards with their effects and prerequisites.
Elementary Reaction can be compared to Mimic Pod, but I would say it's straight up better. You need to have played an Elemental last turn for it to be 1 Mana cheaper than Mimic Pod, but even if you didn't play an Elemental last turn it's still a 2 Mana draw 1.
Arid Stormer could be compared to a Crabrider with a Smuggler's Run, sure, Crabrider feels stronger because Smuggler's Run isn't the only buff Paladins use on it, but as a 3 Mana, 2/5, Rush Windfury they are the same, only a Paladin pays 2 cards, and a Shaman pays an Elemental last turn.
Lilypad Lurker is just Hex on a stick. Whether you compare it to the old 3 Mana Hex, or the current 4 Mana Hex, Lilypad Lurker is at worst a 2 Mana 4/5. The only downside being you have to have played an Elemental last turn, but this is partially negated through the fact Lilypad Lurker itself is an Elemental, unlike Hex of course. (And you can't Hex your own Minions anymore or Hex on turn 4, but this is really minor.)
Kalimos, Primal Lord is arguably the best 'Elemental last turn' card of all. His Invocations being very strong for his total cost.
Invocation of Air being the same as Lightning Storm since its buff, would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 3 Mana 7/7. (Assuming that 2 Overload = 2 Mana.)
Invocation of Fire is similar to a Fireball, but since it only goes Face let's say it's worth 3 mana. This makes Kalimos, Primal Lord a 5 Mana 7/7.
Invocation of Earth is most similar to Stand Against Darkness, you do get an extra Minion, so maybe make it cost 6 Mana. Eitherway this would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 2 or 3 mana 7/7. Though I'm not gonna lie, this Invocation just isn't that good, despite the Mana/Value comparison. Probably better than Onyxia though, for what that's worth.
Invocation of Water is similar to Hidden Oasis, 6 Mana Forbidden Healing, or 3 Witch's Brews, this would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 2 Mana 7/7. (Can only go face though.)
All those four Invocations with the only downside of an Elemental last turn of course. But the fact you can choose them is a great upside in its own right.
I guess what I'm trying to say with this colourful wall of text is that I believe the Elemental last turn mechanic really isn't as bad as you might think. Though this does depend on the amount of Elementals you have put in your deck of course. But for Wild players like myself, it only gets better and better as more and more viable Elemental cards get printed, even some without the Elemental last turn prerequisite.
Again, feel free to disagree and start a conversation, I'll be happy to discuss.
Also, I didn't go into any Neutral or non-Shaman class Elementals because you did say that Shaman isn't as strong as other classes with its Elementals, so I focused on Shamans Elementals.
Fuhgeddaboudit
I forgot to mention Stone Sentinel. This card of course being similar to Feral Spirit with a 4/4 body on top. Assuming again that 1 Overload = 1 Mana, this would make Stone Sentinel a 3 Mana 4/4. Maybe not the strongest, but you can't have it all, right?
Fuhgeddaboudit
The problem with Kalimos is - while you’re right on the maths - that at the time it comes down, the impact of the invocations isn’t big enough (at least for wild). 3 dmg aoe isn’t enough in the late game (maybe against aggro, but if you can play an eight mana card against board based aggro you already won), the 1/1 invocation is useless, 12 healing is nice but very slow, and the 6 Face dmg is only relevant if your opponent is down to 6 or can’t heal/ clear. The price in value is too high for the gain in flexibility.
And playing an elemental last turn is even more crippling than overload: you have to make suboptimal plays to keep the chain going and if you’re forced to react to something and the chain is broken, most cards are useless
I think that overload should give something extra for extra price, not just what's baseline for other classes. Like Lightning Storm in my opinion always should have worked like Guidance, which means: 3 mana deal 2 damage to all enemy minions. Overload (2): deal additional 1 damage. So you could decide not to overload and just use baseline effect (which is on par with other classes), or pay 2 more mana (which is a little bit much, but it has to be, since it's "borrowed" from next turn), to get extra value.
Warlock has pretty much the same issue. He has to pay extra (with mana, life, cards, own minions, mana crystals etc.) to get baseline (or worse) and that's why both classes suck. Lakkari Felhound has only +3 HP compared to Sen'jin Shieldmasta but the drawback is just crazy! Class cards are usually stronger than neutrals, so it should be at least vanilla 3/8 taunt for 4 mana and with no battlecry (especially if you consider all the power creep since Sen'jin Shieldmasta was printed).
Yeah, but the thing you’re forgetting is that many people use Corrupt the Waters in Elemental decks. Which makes 12 face damage or 24 healing or 6 AOE, which is great.
In my experience this isn't the case. Maybe it's because I play mostly casual so I don't go up against the best of the best of decks. But Kalimos, Primal Lord has rarely been a dead card in my hand. Sure you can't just slam him down whenever like you could Ragnaros the Firelord. And as I said, the Invocation of Earth is just bad, I'll give you that. But especially the Invocation of Air just feels so powerful. It's the one I use the most, and even in the late game it's still often very useful. Of course, if your opponent only has Ragnaros the Firelord on his board, you're not gonna play Kalimos, Primal Lord. But he clears cards like Soulciologist Malicia, or Cannonmaster Smythe. And he cleans up nicely if your minions are just a little to weak to trade.
Furthermore, the Invocation of Water has saved me countless times against a control deck that almost had me dead. And the Invocation of Fire was sometimes just what I needed to kill the opponent.
But maybe I'm just biased cause it's my favorite archetype to play. And sure, as it stands, Elemental Shaman isn't anywhere near an A tier deck. But it's not a pathetic deck either. I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's not a bad mechanic in the slightest, and if you ask me, it's a really fun one even. But don't expect some weird broken combos.
Fuhgeddaboudit
When you combine Kalimos with double battlecry, it’s absolutely nuts. You can do double healing or damage or pick a little healing and damage.