So, now everyone more or less is playing the lunacy deck. It's a pretty fun deck to play, with a lot of fun interaction and various gameplay. That said, i don't think it's a good card for the game in general. It's not unbeatable but can bring a lot of frustration for both players. With this expansion the power level it's pretty low, games are generally predictable because Blizzard didn't print high-impact rng cards (that's how i feel at least). So, in this meta at least, that card can pretty much win every match-up alone (with some exceptions), and the deck that is built around it it's solid on it's own. Sure it's a legendary card, so 1 copy, right? But that deck has an upstanding card draw, with card discount, and can search for it. Now, as i said, it's not an OP card by any means, but the fact that the match is a coinflip with no possibility of playing around that card really makes me think that it's a problem. Blizzard stated that they wanted less rng\discover in general, but that single card represents the opposite. What do you guys think? Should be nerfed? Removed?
It is just such an unfun deck to play against. To many games where I know I have lost by turn 5 becuase they hit jack pots on all the spells they draw for free with the spell that draws cards and gives you mana back if its a spell drawn. Just got out of a game where on turn 5 the guy went from an empty board to 7 3/4's and killing both my creatures. Having all that happen makes me not want to play anymore games. It doesn't happen every time but it's also not a rare thing for player to get 3 turns of value in one turn.
The problem is the small card pool those spells can convert to, plus The ever-growing powercreep, makes it that they are really often the same (and very good ones) spells...
I haven’t really seen it in wild for example. The bigger the pool, the less eficient
The problem is the small card pool those spells can convert to, plus The ever-growing powercreep, makes it that they are really often the same (and very good ones) spells...
I haven’t really seen it in wild for example. The bigger the pool, the less eficient
This is right. The card pool for this has never been smaller. Core set removed a bunch of cards, rotation and a set that is minion focused results in deck of lunacy somehow being consistent. I’m not sure calls for nerfs are needed, it will take care of itself with time.
I don't want to be THAT guy, but paladin and warlock are way more frustrating to play against right now. Paladin? Be prepared to lose in 4 turns. Warlock? Just concede cause they're just gonna remove everything and heal from whatever damage you do. Meanwhile, deck of lunacy is random. Yeah, it can be really good when it lands on good cards, but that is the point of the card.
Especially since most high-cost spells right now are ones that summon or buff boards, it's pretty obnoxious as you feel you're playing against token druid (BIG token).
Warlock and paladin are annoying and strong yeah, but they aren't 100% unpredictable. You can know on a turn what they can do, and I do find some fun playing against paladins secrets. But lunacy mage, who just plays Expendable Performers into Pride's Fury, is pretty unfun.
The only thing I disagree with op is you saying it’s not op by any means. I realize you’re being modest, but a lot of people (top rated streamers) claim it’s the best deck in the game, because of that very card.
Refreshing spring water should also be on 5. Every single spell list would still run two, without it being a “0 mana draw 2”.
I think spell mage will remain tier 1 even if lunacy gets nerfed and isn’t played. With spring water, the deck has “arrived” and is now just insanely good. I run two ice barriers main deck in mine, due to weapon rogue/aggro being 90% of my matchups, and just hit legend with it today. Even without drawing lunacy, the deck just does insane things. It has so much card advantage, board control, and pressure all at the same time.
I think if the meta settles, and less aggro is around and more control, you just run two wildfires and burn them out. Time will tell, but this deck will stand the test of it.
I was playing Deck of Lunacy back in DMF because it's fun. Now everyone and their dog is playing it, what, because some streamers figured it was good? The deck needed better draw, and now it has it. Guess it's the best now. Quite the fine line, is it?
It's really unfortunate that a deck can go from "wow, you play that trash tier garbage?" to "wow, you play that stupidly good deck that everyone finds oppressive and hates?" so quickly.
Or maybe everyone is overreacting, like they always do.
These forums can be exhausting to read sometimes. I just want a place where I can go and talk about a game I like. Why is it always this polarizing debate about how cards are ruining the experience for everyone else?
I don't have all the answers, but I knew this card was going to be damn good. When this card dropped people destroyed it on this website... It's pretty satisfying to see people up in arms now "This is just another meme" Lol think for yourselves..
Its a fun card for people and is far from op in any way, played alot and and op is not the same thing by any means.
Plus it very often gives cards that are useless for the players, many high cost spells now that revolve around minions in deck, like the deathrattle hunter spell and warlock deck of chaos.
Personally I have had fun games against it,
Rouge is the powerhouse now in my opinion, the lunacy deck will fate in popularity in a few days/weeks
Just played 5 games with Lunacy mage....went 4-1 . Its a stupid deck...you dont even feel bad when you lose, you just chalk it up to bad RNG. You dont need to be good at the game to win with this deck... Why is this deck a thing.
I was playing Deck of Lunacy back in DMF because it's fun. Now everyone and their dog is playing it, what, because some streamers figured it was good? The deck needed better draw, and now it has it. Guess it's the best now. Quite the fine line, is it?
It's really unfortunate that a deck can go from "wow, you play that trash tier garbage?" to "wow, you play that stupidly good deck that everyone finds oppressive and hates?" so quickly.
Or maybe everyone is overreacting, like they always do.
These forums can be exhausting to read sometimes. I just want a place where I can go and talk about a game I like. Why is it always this polarizing debate about how cards are ruining the experience for everyone else?
This isn’t supposed to come off as mean, but you were playing the deck when it was bad. So everyone playing it now is just a result of it, well, not being bad anymore.
A multitude of things resulted in the deck now being good.
1. Refreshing spring water is broken. The deck has hit a critical mass of card draw.
2. As for deck of lunacy, a LOT of terrible expensive spells rotated. Deck of lunacy was massively buffed by this rotation.
3. Finally, with a new year came a new rotation, obviously. The decks of the previous meta no longer exist, decks that destroyed spell mage.
So you have a combination of many things that pushed spell mage up to the top. The deck is very consistent, does not need lunacy to win, and is even more absurd if you get an early lunacy.
Even if lunacy gets nerfed to “unplayability,” I still think spell mage is tier 1. It’s just an insane deck even without it.
Personally, i think that those kind of "for the rest of the game" cards (add lothraxxion and xanesh to the mix, or even mage's mana discount spell, as far as I'm concerned) are unhealthy for the game. The fact that hitting them on curve basically means your chances of winning increase by like 80% is turning this whole game into a single coinflip. Just like Alura did in ramp pally. I personally concede right off the bat as soon as the opponent plays deck of lunacy on turn two.
It's not just about card draw. All the discover style effects are more consistent with the smaller card pool. Look at Jandice Barov - she's much better now than she ever was. This card is the same. The extra card draw just tops the cake, and like all the other card draw that seems to exist now, it has no real tempo cost.
Deck of Lunacy is a problem. Usually I don't pull the "it doesn't feel fun to play against" reasoning, but spell mage has been unfun to play against even when it was bad. Now Mage has a winrate over 50% built on the back of completely random bs.
Refreshing Spring Water needs a damn nerf. 0 mana draw 2 is not fair.
The deck has been popular for little over 24 hours and no one has had the time to react to it yet.
It's entirely possible that the meta will be able to react to spell mage and even if it doesn't, unless it has an absurd winrare, Blizzard will just let it be until at least the miniset comes, where they can just try to pollute the 10 mana spell pool which is currently the main problem.
Deck of Lunacy is as good as it has ever been, but also as far away from 'complete random' as it has ever been. If you put 7-mana spells in your deck you know that deck of lunacy will convert them to either Nagrand Slam or Survival of the Fittest. And if you discount them first with Incanter's Flow, you will get Libram of Hope as it is the only 9-mana spell in standard. You also know that 8-mana spells include quite a few bad outcomes (Guardian Animals, Idol of Y'Shaarj, Jewel of N'Zoth out of 9 total spells), which is why it's probably best not to run C'Thun the Shattered in this deck. The pool of 7-mana spell is much better on the other hand (only Commencement is a bad outcome out of 7 total spells) as is the 6-mana pool (Deck of Chaos is the only bad outcome, again 1/7), while all 13 5-mana spells are at least decent.
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So, now everyone more or less is playing the lunacy deck. It's a pretty fun deck to play, with a lot of fun interaction and various gameplay. That said, i don't think it's a good card for the game in general. It's not unbeatable but can bring a lot of frustration for both players. With this expansion the power level it's pretty low, games are generally predictable because Blizzard didn't print high-impact rng cards (that's how i feel at least). So, in this meta at least, that card can pretty much win every match-up alone (with some exceptions), and the deck that is built around it it's solid on it's own. Sure it's a legendary card, so 1 copy, right? But that deck has an upstanding card draw, with card discount, and can search for it. Now, as i said, it's not an OP card by any means, but the fact that the match is a coinflip with no possibility of playing around that card really makes me think that it's a problem. Blizzard stated that they wanted less rng\discover in general, but that single card represents the opposite. What do you guys think? Should be nerfed? Removed?
It is just such an unfun deck to play against. To many games where I know I have lost by turn 5 becuase they hit jack pots on all the spells they draw for free with the spell that draws cards and gives you mana back if its a spell drawn. Just got out of a game where on turn 5 the guy went from an empty board to 7 3/4's and killing both my creatures. Having all that happen makes me not want to play anymore games. It doesn't happen every time but it's also not a rare thing for player to get 3 turns of value in one turn.
The problem is the small card pool those spells can convert to, plus The ever-growing powercreep, makes it that they are really often the same (and very good ones) spells...
I haven’t really seen it in wild for example. The bigger the pool, the less eficient
This is right. The card pool for this has never been smaller. Core set removed a bunch of cards, rotation and a set that is minion focused results in deck of lunacy somehow being consistent. I’m not sure calls for nerfs are needed, it will take care of itself with time.
I don't want to be THAT guy, but paladin and warlock are way more frustrating to play against right now. Paladin? Be prepared to lose in 4 turns. Warlock? Just concede cause they're just gonna remove everything and heal from whatever damage you do. Meanwhile, deck of lunacy is random. Yeah, it can be really good when it lands on good cards, but that is the point of the card.
Especially since most high-cost spells right now are ones that summon or buff boards, it's pretty obnoxious as you feel you're playing against token druid (BIG token).
Warlock and paladin are annoying and strong yeah, but they aren't 100% unpredictable. You can know on a turn what they can do, and I do find some fun playing against paladins secrets. But lunacy mage, who just plays Expendable Performers into Pride's Fury, is pretty unfun.
I have yet to play against a jaina who hasn't high-rolled every lunacy play, like are any of the bad cards even there?
The only thing I disagree with op is you saying it’s not op by any means. I realize you’re being modest, but a lot of people (top rated streamers) claim it’s the best deck in the game, because of that very card.
Refreshing spring water should also be on 5. Every single spell list would still run two, without it being a “0 mana draw 2”.
I think spell mage will remain tier 1 even if lunacy gets nerfed and isn’t played. With spring water, the deck has “arrived” and is now just insanely good. I run two ice barriers main deck in mine, due to weapon rogue/aggro being 90% of my matchups, and just hit legend with it today. Even without drawing lunacy, the deck just does insane things. It has so much card advantage, board control, and pressure all at the same time.
I think if the meta settles, and less aggro is around and more control, you just run two wildfires and burn them out. Time will tell, but this deck will stand the test of it.
I like how this deck was fun 2 days ago, and now its the most unfun and oppressive deck on the ladder xD
I was playing Deck of Lunacy back in DMF because it's fun. Now everyone and their dog is playing it, what, because some streamers figured it was good? The deck needed better draw, and now it has it. Guess it's the best now. Quite the fine line, is it?
It's really unfortunate that a deck can go from "wow, you play that trash tier garbage?" to "wow, you play that stupidly good deck that everyone finds oppressive and hates?" so quickly.
Or maybe everyone is overreacting, like they always do.
These forums can be exhausting to read sometimes. I just want a place where I can go and talk about a game I like. Why is it always this polarizing debate about how cards are ruining the experience for everyone else?
I don't have all the answers, but I knew this card was going to be damn good. When this card dropped people destroyed it on this website... It's pretty satisfying to see people up in arms now
"This is just another meme"
Lol think for yourselves..
Its a fun card for people and is far from op in any way, played alot and and op is not the same thing by any means.
Plus it very often gives cards that are useless for the players, many high cost spells now that revolve around minions in deck, like the deathrattle hunter spell and warlock deck of chaos.
Personally I have had fun games against it,
Rouge is the powerhouse now in my opinion, the lunacy deck will fate in popularity in a few days/weeks
100% win ratio vs mage with weapon rogue ... so dont cry play agrro
Just played 5 games with Lunacy mage....went 4-1 . Its a stupid deck...you dont even feel bad when you lose, you just chalk it up to bad RNG. You dont need to be good at the game to win with this deck... Why is this deck a thing.
This isn’t supposed to come off as mean, but you were playing the deck when it was bad. So everyone playing it now is just a result of it, well, not being bad anymore.
A multitude of things resulted in the deck now being good.
1. Refreshing spring water is broken. The deck has hit a critical mass of card draw.
2. As for deck of lunacy, a LOT of terrible expensive spells rotated. Deck of lunacy was massively buffed by this rotation.
3. Finally, with a new year came a new rotation, obviously. The decks of the previous meta no longer exist, decks that destroyed spell mage.
So you have a combination of many things that pushed spell mage up to the top. The deck is very consistent, does not need lunacy to win, and is even more absurd if you get an early lunacy.
Even if lunacy gets nerfed to “unplayability,” I still think spell mage is tier 1. It’s just an insane deck even without it.
Personally, i think that those kind of "for the rest of the game" cards (add lothraxxion and xanesh to the mix, or even mage's mana discount spell, as far as I'm concerned) are unhealthy for the game. The fact that hitting them on curve basically means your chances of winning increase by like 80% is turning this whole game into a single coinflip. Just like Alura did in ramp pally. I personally concede right off the bat as soon as the opponent plays deck of lunacy on turn two.
It's not just about card draw. All the discover style effects are more consistent with the smaller card pool. Look at Jandice Barov - she's much better now than she ever was. This card is the same. The extra card draw just tops the cake, and like all the other card draw that seems to exist now, it has no real tempo cost.
Deck of Lunacy is a problem.
Usually I don't pull the "it doesn't feel fun to play against" reasoning, but spell mage has been unfun to play against even when it was bad.
Now Mage has a winrate over 50% built on the back of completely random bs.
Refreshing Spring Water needs a damn nerf.
0 mana draw 2 is not fair.
The deck has been popular for little over 24 hours and no one has had the time to react to it yet.
It's entirely possible that the meta will be able to react to spell mage and even if it doesn't, unless it has an absurd winrare, Blizzard will just let it be until at least the miniset comes, where they can just try to pollute the 10 mana spell pool which is currently the main problem.
Deck of Lunacy is as good as it has ever been, but also as far away from 'complete random' as it has ever been. If you put 7-mana spells in your deck you know that deck of lunacy will convert them to either Nagrand Slam or Survival of the Fittest. And if you discount them first with Incanter's Flow, you will get Libram of Hope as it is the only 9-mana spell in standard. You also know that 8-mana spells include quite a few bad outcomes (Guardian Animals, Idol of Y'Shaarj, Jewel of N'Zoth out of 9 total spells), which is why it's probably best not to run C'Thun the Shattered in this deck. The pool of 7-mana spell is much better on the other hand (only Commencement is a bad outcome out of 7 total spells) as is the 6-mana pool (Deck of Chaos is the only bad outcome, again 1/7), while all 13 5-mana spells are at least decent.