Been trying to push to legend for the second time in standard, and having terrible luck. Right now I'm seeing about 40-45% warlock in D5 (not kidding, those are the actual stats - 35 of my last 80 games were vs warlock), so I thought libram paladin would be a good matchup. What I can't figure out is mulligans - most of my draws are terrible, and even hard mulligans rarely get me anything playable until turn 3. Every time I face another libram pally the other player curves out 100% of the time, usually aldor attendant turn 1 and hand of a'dal turn 2. Should I just hard mulligan every single time if I don't draw those 2 cards?
example - draw is libram of justice, blessing of authority, libram of hope. Hard mulligan, get devout pupil, liadrin, hand of a'dal (which is useless with no turn 1 or turn 2 play). Next game - draw is argent braggart, aldor truthseeker, blessing of authority. Hard mulligan again, get blessing of authority, consecration, libram of justice. This is basically how my last 10 games have gone.
Is this really bad RNG or am I completely missing something? I have a really good win rate with other decks (ETC warrior is what I used to hit D5 but it is pointless trying to play a control deck when 40-45% of your opponents are warlocks).
I play alot of Pure Paladin and let me tell you the early curve doesn't come to you often and that's normal for a deck that doesn't have alot of early game. I can't imagine you are facing alot of Libram/Pure Paladins but you're just unlucky to face the ones that happen to get a good mulligan.
Thanks. Was wondering how much my expectations were skewed by matchups with good opponents or just lucky ones. Small sample size so anything is possible :)
U have to tell us what kind of warlock u are facing. But even its aggro (zoo warlock) or Tick Warlock they are slightly better than Paladin. Tricky matchup for u
Depends on the matchup. Most of the time, yes, you're trying to get a 1-drop into Hand of A'dal. You never mulligan away Attendant and First Day of School. In matchups where early board control is super important (usually aggro decks) you throw away Hand of A'dal if you don't have a 1-drop to put it on (Attendant and First Day are the ones my version runs, I don't know if you've slotted in an extra one). I like to keep Consecration against classes that can run hyper-aggro or token BS, like Demon Hunter, Rogue or Druid - it usually buys you enough time to start stalling with taunts and healing yourself with Libram of Hope. I've not got that much experience facing Warlock since I've not played that much in this expansion, but my guess would be you want to SMOrc them down with early and midgame pressure (that's sort of been the traditional way to get them), so I think I'd keep Goody Two-Shields and probably the pure 4/2 equip a Truesilver guy if I have anything decent to do before turn 4. I'm surprised Paladin is doing as well as the stats say that it is against Control Warlock, though (51.8% on HSReplay - good, though not amazing)- I would think Cascading Disaster hard counters Libram and Pure Paladin's gameplan of making one or two big guys at a time to beat them up.
Thanks for the input, I'm starting to think it was the decklist I was using - no 2 drops (other than braggart which is useless as a 2 drop). 2 shotbots or shotbot + murgur seems to smooth things out a LOT. I probably should use HSReplay less as a guide for D5+ I think the win rates are highly skewed to lower ranks (without paying for breakdown by rank).
You can’t play pure liaram like an aggro deck. All about reducing the cost of cards use lady to gain them back for a second use refill hand with light forged
with MT ironforge this last weekend i was curious to give libroom a go, see what the fuss was all about.
Dam, this deck feels like a meme..dunno, its very possible i'm playing it wrong, maybe i got unlucky matchups, maybe its just not up my alley, but definitely i felt it weak. Only thing the deck consistently has is card draw, u can cycle through ur deck fast enough (i had just 1 game where i couldn't find any draw engine out of the several the deck has) and u would think that's enough but almost all the time the pieces didn't fell right... board was constantly wiped by mage/locks opponents (there's not much of a board to begin with given that this deck can't really go wide and hope to stick with it's 1 health minions) and apm'ing the sh1t out of dem flingers for what seemed minuscule dmg at a time is really not for me i guess... also had the unpleasant surprise to see my flingers not being returned to the hand after playing a libram of judgment (can't recall if corrupted or no).
So ye, after admitting that more practice is needed to form an accurate opinion, i can't say i enjoyed my time with this deck (list was Floki's libroom pally), but gl & hf out there tho ;)
'apm'ing the sh1t out of dem flingers' is actually how you win most of the time. The damage piles up real fast with 2 of them and a bunch of 0-cost librams. Even if you have to spend 2 mana to tap and get a dude to buff, that's 8 damage per turn in the late game if you spend all your mana on pens and have a bunch of 0-cost librams off liadrin.
As for libram of judgment, it's a weapon and not a spell, so of course it won't bounce the pens back to your hand
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Been trying to push to legend for the second time in standard, and having terrible luck. Right now I'm seeing about 40-45% warlock in D5 (not kidding, those are the actual stats - 35 of my last 80 games were vs warlock), so I thought libram paladin would be a good matchup. What I can't figure out is mulligans - most of my draws are terrible, and even hard mulligans rarely get me anything playable until turn 3. Every time I face another libram pally the other player curves out 100% of the time, usually aldor attendant turn 1 and hand of a'dal turn 2. Should I just hard mulligan every single time if I don't draw those 2 cards?
example - draw is libram of justice, blessing of authority, libram of hope. Hard mulligan, get devout pupil, liadrin, hand of a'dal (which is useless with no turn 1 or turn 2 play). Next game - draw is argent braggart, aldor truthseeker, blessing of authority. Hard mulligan again, get blessing of authority, consecration, libram of justice. This is basically how my last 10 games have gone.
Is this really bad RNG or am I completely missing something? I have a really good win rate with other decks (ETC warrior is what I used to hit D5 but it is pointless trying to play a control deck when 40-45% of your opponents are warlocks).
I play alot of Pure Paladin and let me tell you the early curve doesn't come to you often and that's normal for a deck that doesn't have alot of early game. I can't imagine you are facing alot of Libram/Pure Paladins but you're just unlucky to face the ones that happen to get a good mulligan.
Thanks. Was wondering how much my expectations were skewed by matchups with good opponents or just lucky ones. Small sample size so anything is possible :)
U have to tell us what kind of warlock u are facing. But even its aggro (zoo warlock) or Tick Warlock they are slightly better than Paladin. Tricky matchup for u
Depends on the matchup. Most of the time, yes, you're trying to get a 1-drop into Hand of A'dal. You never mulligan away Attendant and First Day of School. In matchups where early board control is super important (usually aggro decks) you throw away Hand of A'dal if you don't have a 1-drop to put it on (Attendant and First Day are the ones my version runs, I don't know if you've slotted in an extra one). I like to keep Consecration against classes that can run hyper-aggro or token BS, like Demon Hunter, Rogue or Druid - it usually buys you enough time to start stalling with taunts and healing yourself with Libram of Hope. I've not got that much experience facing Warlock since I've not played that much in this expansion, but my guess would be you want to SMOrc them down with early and midgame pressure (that's sort of been the traditional way to get them), so I think I'd keep Goody Two-Shields and probably the pure 4/2 equip a Truesilver guy if I have anything decent to do before turn 4. I'm surprised Paladin is doing as well as the stats say that it is against Control Warlock, though (51.8% on HSReplay - good, though not amazing)- I would think Cascading Disaster hard counters Libram and Pure Paladin's gameplan of making one or two big guys at a time to beat them up.
Thanks for the input, I'm starting to think it was the decklist I was using - no 2 drops (other than braggart which is useless as a 2 drop). 2 shotbots or shotbot + murgur seems to smooth things out a LOT. I probably should use HSReplay less as a guide for D5+ I think the win rates are highly skewed to lower ranks (without paying for breakdown by rank).
You can’t play pure liaram like an aggro deck. All about reducing the cost of cards use lady to gain them back for a second use refill hand with light forged
Broom pally
with MT ironforge this last weekend i was curious to give libroom a go, see what the fuss was all about.
Dam, this deck feels like a meme..dunno, its very possible i'm playing it wrong, maybe i got unlucky matchups, maybe its just not up my alley, but definitely i felt it weak. Only thing the deck consistently has is card draw, u can cycle through ur deck fast enough (i had just 1 game where i couldn't find any draw engine out of the several the deck has) and u would think that's enough but almost all the time the pieces didn't fell right... board was constantly wiped by mage/locks opponents (there's not much of a board to begin with given that this deck can't really go wide and hope to stick with it's 1 health minions) and apm'ing the sh1t out of dem flingers for what seemed minuscule dmg at a time is really not for me i guess... also had the unpleasant surprise to see my flingers not being returned to the hand after playing a libram of judgment (can't recall if corrupted or no).
So ye, after admitting that more practice is needed to form an accurate opinion, i can't say i enjoyed my time with this deck (list was Floki's libroom pally), but gl & hf out there tho ;)
'apm'ing the sh1t out of dem flingers' is actually how you win most of the time. The damage piles up real fast with 2 of them and a bunch of 0-cost librams. Even if you have to spend 2 mana to tap and get a dude to buff, that's 8 damage per turn in the late game if you spend all your mana on pens and have a bunch of 0-cost librams off liadrin.
As for libram of judgment, it's a weapon and not a spell, so of course it won't bounce the pens back to your hand