Far be it for me to get between Pherosizm and defusing an argument (my last attempt was a bit embarrassing), but SpaceTime started this whole shebang with an easily disprovable statement. It is reasonable to expect a bit of disdain.
Frankly, I don't know how to treat Ramp Paladin in the context of this discussion. Sure it uses many high-cost cards, but it also ramps harder than druid could ever dream of with Noz. Not sure if that's mana cheating or not, given that it gives your opponent a similar perk.
However, I just disregarded that deck, and we still found dozens of cards that are hard cast at 5 and above routinely.
I might add, there is a control shaman deck starting to appear more frequently that has a stellar performance against aggro, and that is sporting a good 40% of the deck over 4 mana. That deck struggles with Ramp Paladin if it draws the Alura, but just about everything struggles with the turn 4 Tip the Scales play, so not sure that's a disqualifying trait.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Community : "is there a reason to play 4+ mana cards hurrr durrr aggro op"
Game : Ramp paladin is a tier 1 deck
You could have easily brought the deck to my attention but not only you ignored to read my post you had to be rude about your writing your reply.
And the account was made today, for their first post, to do that.
Aren't people just amazing?
I've been on hearthpwn for almost a decade, this account is fresh because I just merged it with blizzard account and that made me a new profile on hearthpwn somehow.
Aren't people's assumptions just amazing ?
You could have easily brought the deck to my attention but not only you ignored to read my post you had to be rude about your writing your reply.
I did not ignore to read your post. Ramp paladin is tier 1 and showcases more 10 mana cards than any competitive control deck I've ever seen. However you treat ramp paladin as an aggro, control, combo, tempo, value, overpowered deck is up to you, it makes no difference to your question in the title, in most Hearthstone metas, most classes have a competitive reason to play cards that cost more than 5 mana, and it's not always related to mana cheating.
On this topic, mana cheating has now become almost a norm for (good) high cost cards, it's isn't anything special anymore like in the day of Mysterious Challenger cheating out 5 mana and cutting 5 cards from your deck. Yes, at the time, that was a rare occurence of actual mana "cheating" in a game ruled by the actual fairness of the mana system, but nowadays is entirely different and the whole point of the game is to find card combos that cheat out mana, most competitive high cost cards generate more mana than their "vanilla" cost, it is the actual reason to play higher cost cards and decks, you get better rewards for your mana, in exchange of spending your mana more slowly and having fewer combos at your disposal. Essentially mana cheating cards shouldn't be considered an exception anymore and excluded from the argument, there are many different ways to cheat mana/stats and it is the core of Hearthstone competitive game design, for both low and high cost cards. Name one T1 deck that didn't cheat mana. I didn't look it up but I'd be surprised if you could.
And ramp paladin is just one example of decks that play 10 mana cards, you can make the argument that since ramp paladin is tier 1, it's a good idea to play cards like brawl or chaos nova to counter meta, and plenty other arguments to play almost any card you'd like in at least a tier 2 deck.
Now your question might be, why are tier 1 decks in most metas aggressive decks, regardeless of the cost of the cards ? And the answer is simple, it's a design choice that Blizzard have made when they released Hearthstone and have followed ever since. They don't want the average game to last 30 minutes, that is understandable. Hearthstone is combo based, 30 max health is low, cards that combo faster than others are better on average and make players generate gold/xp faster, it's very logical and there aren't many things you can do about it, other than being at peace with the fact that you will lose your game and your dignity on turn 4 from time to time. As long as it's not turn 2, it's fine by me, there's enough time to recover and greed out the opponent.
Since the first release of Hearthstone, high cost cards have been vastly improved, supported and expanded, more so than low cost cards (cards like Clown, Guardian animal, Survival of the fittest, would have be obscene and very destructive in vanilla/naxxramas Hearthstone), now is the best of times to play greedy decks, occasionally losing on turn 4-5 is nothing compared to some old metas where the majority of your games were decided by turn 2-3, it's a massive difference in how you can build decks and react to massive board early without necessarily relying on mana cheating.
I apologize for being rude it wasn't my intention, I was just quickly dismissing your argument that I've heard every day since the Hearthstone beta, that you can't play high cost cards because of game design being favorable to aggro decks. It's wrong, always have been except in a few select metas.
I'll just stop editing and adding more stuff to my post now, I could talk about this for hours but as a non-native english speaker, this must be a pain to read.
Community : "is there a reason to play 4+ mana cards hurrr durrr aggro op"
Game : Ramp paladin is a tier 1 deck
You could have easily brought the deck to my attention but not only you ignored to read my post you had to be rude about your writing your reply.
And the account was made today, for their first post, to do that.
Aren't people just amazing?
I've been on hearthpwn for almost a decade, this account is fresh because I just merged it with blizzard account and that made me a new profile on hearthpwn somehow.
Aren't people's assumptions just amazing ?
Pardon my assumption. Your post did come off a bit rude, so I was just being sarcastic about it.
I appreciate your following post, though. Very thoughtful, and you make a lot of good points.
Realistically, there is a reason why people call high cost cards "greedy" and the design of the game definitely pushes everyone toward aggro-centric gameplay. It's unfortunate, because not everyone likes that style of play.
Personally, I've come to just accept that losing to a face hunter (or other, similar aggressive deck) is just going to happen once in a while and there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you jam a ton of defensive cards in your deck, you may still not draw what you need at the right moment. Such is Hearthstone.
But I can't help but be sad that some cards just feel too slow for most decks, unless they have a specific combo. Keymaster Alabaster seemed very cool to me when he was first shown off, but in standard there isn't much for him to do. I know there's some wild combos where he can do some cool stuff, but still in the realm of memery, I suppose.
Anyway, on another note... currently, my win rate with my highlander mage deck is 59%, with 29% of matches against paladin... and basically all of them seem to running some form of the new ramp paladin stuff. So if this keeps up, maybe there IS a reason to put high cost cards into your deck.
The paladin is going to give you 10 mana, so you better be ready to use it.
Community : "is there a reason to play 4+ mana cards hurrr durrr aggro op"
Game : Ramp paladin is a tier 1 deck
You could have easily brought the deck to my attention but not only you ignored to read my post you had to be rude about your writing your reply.
And the account was made today, for their first post, to do that.
Aren't people just amazing?
I've been on hearthpwn for almost a decade, this account is fresh because I just merged it with blizzard account and that made me a new profile on hearthpwn somehow.
Aren't people's assumptions just amazing ?
Pardon my assumption. Your post did come off a bit rude, so I was just being sarcastic about it.
I appreciate your following post, though. Very thoughtful, and you make a lot of good points.
Realistically, there is a reason why people call high cost cards "greedy" and the design of the game definitely pushes everyone toward aggro-centric gameplay. It's unfortunate, because not everyone likes that style of play.
Personally, I've come to just accept that losing to a face hunter (or other, similar aggressive deck) is just going to happen once in a while and there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you jam a ton of defensive cards in your deck, you may still not draw what you need at the right moment. Such is Hearthstone.
But I can't help but be sad that some cards just feel too slow for most decks, unless they have a specific combo. Keymaster Alabaster seemed very cool to me when he was first shown off, but in standard there isn't much for him to do. I know there's some wild combos where he can do some cool stuff, but still in the realm of memery, I suppose.
Anyway, on another note... currently, my win rate with my highlander mage deck is 59%, with 29% of matches against paladin... and basically all of them seem to running some form of the new ramp paladin stuff. So if this keeps up, maybe there IS a reason to put high cost cards into your deck.
The paladin is going to give you 10 mana, so you better be ready to use it.
I'm curious to see how your HL mage looks, if you don't mind sharing the list. I've played HL mage exclusively since Uldum released & I don't really see too many others playing it on ladder nowadays.
I always find it interesting to see how others have altered their lists to adapt to the current meta.
Community : "is there a reason to play 4+ mana cards hurrr durrr aggro op"
Game : Ramp paladin is a tier 1 deck
You could have easily brought the deck to my attention but not only you ignored to read my post you had to be rude about your writing your reply.
And the account was made today, for their first post, to do that.
Aren't people just amazing?
I've been on hearthpwn for almost a decade, this account is fresh because I just merged it with blizzard account and that made me a new profile on hearthpwn somehow.
Aren't people's assumptions just amazing ?
Pardon my assumption. Your post did come off a bit rude, so I was just being sarcastic about it.
I appreciate your following post, though. Very thoughtful, and you make a lot of good points.
Realistically, there is a reason why people call high cost cards "greedy" and the design of the game definitely pushes everyone toward aggro-centric gameplay. It's unfortunate, because not everyone likes that style of play.
Personally, I've come to just accept that losing to a face hunter (or other, similar aggressive deck) is just going to happen once in a while and there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you jam a ton of defensive cards in your deck, you may still not draw what you need at the right moment. Such is Hearthstone.
But I can't help but be sad that some cards just feel too slow for most decks, unless they have a specific combo. Keymaster Alabaster seemed very cool to me when he was first shown off, but in standard there isn't much for him to do. I know there's some wild combos where he can do some cool stuff, but still in the realm of memery, I suppose.
Anyway, on another note... currently, my win rate with my highlander mage deck is 59%, with 29% of matches against paladin... and basically all of them seem to running some form of the new ramp paladin stuff. So if this keeps up, maybe there IS a reason to put high cost cards into your deck.
The paladin is going to give you 10 mana, so you better be ready to use it.
I'm curious to see how your HL mage looks, if you don't mind sharing the list. I've played HL mage exclusively since Uldum released & I don't really see too many others playing it on ladder nowadays.
I always find it interesting to see how others have altered their lists to adapt to the current meta.
No problem. I just uploaded the list on my deck list.
It's nothing ground breaking, but it has been fun.
To connect this with the topic of the thread... I actually just realized, when I was building this on the website, it really does not have a ton of high cost cards, it is much leaner than the original builds were, but still has enough that it feels like it has good power in the late game. And with enough early game cards to get there, it has been pretty good to me.
But I suppose the fact remains, that you can't play high cost cards unless you survive long enough to do so, and unless you know your opponents will always try to out-greed you, you have to build your deck with tools to try and fight aggro, too.
But I suppose the fact remains, that you can't play high cost cards unless you survive long enough to do so, and unless you know your opponents will always try to out-greed you, you have to build your deck with tools to try and fight aggro, too.
Has the game ever not been like this? I’m not sure what this post is seeking to accomplish. So you don’t like high cost cards that cheat mana? But you also recognize that aggro is hard to deal with. So I ask, what is the problem with mana cheating? How else could you make a card worthwhile at high cost? The problem with high cost cards is drawing them in the early game and potentially dying in the process, so you have to cheat mana later on in order to catch up. Are you saying you wish aggro decks were slower, or you wish that high cost cards didn’t cheat mana? Because it has to be both, but slowing down aggro would just make people complain about expansions being bad and wouldn’t be good for the game. Some people like winning fast. As for cards not cheating mana, what do you want, a bunch of ogres running around? Hearthstone hasn’t existed as a “play card because good stats for the cost” game since vanilla and GvG days.
But I suppose the fact remains, that you can't play high cost cards unless you survive long enough to do so, and unless you know your opponents will always try to out-greed you, you have to build your deck with tools to try and fight aggro, too.
...So I ask, what is the problem with mana cheating? How else could you make a card worthwhile at high cost?
The problem with mana cheating is that it limits the design space on high cost cards. If mana cheating were limited then the power level of high cost cards could be buffed. If you played Big Warrior with Commencement you know that it isn't the greatest feeling in the world to spend 10 mana to play Scrapyard Colossus only for it to be quickly removed by a lower cost removal.
Scrapyard Colossus is one of the best examples of a minion worth 10 mana actually because it have a sticky element to it. N'Zoth, God of the Deep and Y'Shaarj, the Defiler are strong high cost cards but they require setup so mana cheating them isn't always ideal
Any complain or observation brings the juice drinking trolls out
This is the main problem I have with the hearthstone community. A large number seem absolutely incapable of having any kind of actual discussion. Click on any thread, no matter the subject, & you will see all the same comments.
"Quit whining/crying"
"Play aggro"
"Git gud"
Very few meaningful comments, if any at all. Just an absolute unwillingness to even attempt to put together a compelling argument. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but this is the primary reason I no longer visit the main subreddit at all.
Any complain or observation brings the juice drinking trolls out
This is the main problem I have with the hearthstone community. A large number seem absolutely incapable of having any kind of actual discussion. Click on any thread, no matter the subject, & you will see all the same comments.
"Quit whining/crying"
"Play aggro"
"Git gud"
Very few meaningful comments, if any at all. Just an absolute unwillingness to even attempt to put together a compelling argument. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but this is the primary reason I no longer visit the main subreddit at all.
Don't blame the masses, they are just victims of mindlessly aggressive card design. Just like the Trump-voter a victim of Trump. GOP the victim of Qanon. Ever heard any sense of that species of humanity?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Any complain or observation brings the juice drinking trolls out
This is the main problem I have with the hearthstone community. A large number seem absolutely incapable of having any kind of actual discussion. Click on any thread, no matter the subject, & you will see all the same comments.
"Quit whining/crying"
"Play aggro"
"Git gud"
Very few meaningful comments, if any at all. Just an absolute unwillingness to even attempt to put together a compelling argument. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but this is the primary reason I no longer visit the main subreddit at all.
Well, when no one on the opposing side will even respond to the repeated observations that control and combo decks DON'T lose to this deck at an oppressive rate, what else could possibly constitute a "meaningful comment"?
Anecdotes aren't meaningful comments either, with regards to compelling arguments. Despite the repeated assertions that facts are subjective and evidence is meaningless, I continue to point out the obvious. So far, I've seen nothing to support the notion that Tickatus is holding back what would otherwise be a slower and more control/combo oriented meta.
Furthermore, the actual premise of the OP remains as absurd as it was the day of posting. I tried being meaningful, and it was ignored. So I'll go with the language more people seem to engage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Any complain or observation brings the juice drinking trolls out
This is the main problem I have with the hearthstone community. A large number seem absolutely incapable of having any kind of actual discussion. Click on any thread, no matter the subject, & you will see all the same comments.
"Quit whining/crying"
"Play aggro"
"Git gud"
Very few meaningful comments, if any at all. Just an absolute unwillingness to even attempt to put together a compelling argument. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but this is the primary reason I no longer visit the main subreddit at all.
Well, when no one on the opposing side will even respond to the repeated observations that control and combo decks DON'T lose to this deck at an oppressive rate, what else could possibly constitute a "meaningful comment"?
Anecdotes aren't meaningful comments either, with regards to compelling arguments. Despite the repeated assertions that facts are subjective and evidence is meaningless, I continue to point out the obvious. So far, I've seen nothing to support the notion that Tickatus is holding back what would otherwise be a slower and more control/combo oriented meta.
Furthermore, the actual premise of the OP remains as absurd as it was the day of posting. I tried being meaningful, and it was ignored. So I'll go with the language more people seem to engage.
My comment was speaking more in a general sense, not necessarily about this particular topic. What I said certainly doesn't apply to you, as you seem to always respond with an actual thought out argument, as opposed to the typical troll type response I often see on here. That, in itself, is appreciated, whether we agree on a topic or not.
But just for the record, I don't agree that Tickatus, itself, is officially the death of control. I do think the cards' effect, is fundamentally flawed, & the epitome of lazy design. I personally, would prefer if the card had never been printed, but after reading Iksars response on Twitter, I now understand that they have essentially thrown caution to the wind as far as card design, to appease a niche audience.
Lol, fair enough. I was just laughing, reflecting on how "niche audience" is probably the nicest thing I've been called on these forums so far.
All other considerations aside, I've never understood how Ayala keeps his job.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Lol, fair enough. I was just laughing, reflecting on how "niche audience" is probably the nicest thing I've been called on these forums so far.
All other considerations aside, I've never understood how Ayala keeps his job.
This was his exact quote on Tickatus. It pretty much tells us all we need to know.
"The people that love disruption LOVE disruption though. It's the reason they play the game. To do mean stuff to people! (i know because i am this person)"
Yeah, that's about as moronic a statement as I've ever heard from a PR guy on a number of levels.
Actually, I suppose "do you guys not have phones?" still takes the cake, but this one is a distant but firm second.
EDIT: For the record, no clue whether Ayala's title includes PR anywhere, but he's de facto a PR guy when he's brought out to speak to the player base like this
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Lol, fair enough. I was just laughing, reflecting on how "niche audience" is probably the nicest thing I've been called on these forums so far.
All other considerations aside, I've never understood how Ayala keeps his job.
This was his exact quote on Tickatus. It pretty much tells us all we need to know.
"The people that love disruption LOVE disruption though. It's the reason they play the game. To do mean stuff to people! (i know because i am this person)"
"Disruption is fine as long as it sees fringe play. People like disruption, complaints only arise when it appears all the time."
I actually agree with his statement in the AMA, i guess ppl started complaining cuz in hearthstone, fringe = never sees play. Tickatus was the first time milling saw real play outside of meme mill decks, but the backlash rly doesnt match the cards wr at all. Same with Illucia, which is a MUCH worse disruption card than Tickatus imo, but its fine cuz no one plays priest lol.
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And the account was made today, for their first post, to do that.
Aren't people just amazing?
Far be it for me to get between Pherosizm and defusing an argument (my last attempt was a bit embarrassing), but SpaceTime started this whole shebang with an easily disprovable statement. It is reasonable to expect a bit of disdain.
Frankly, I don't know how to treat Ramp Paladin in the context of this discussion. Sure it uses many high-cost cards, but it also ramps harder than druid could ever dream of with Noz. Not sure if that's mana cheating or not, given that it gives your opponent a similar perk.
However, I just disregarded that deck, and we still found dozens of cards that are hard cast at 5 and above routinely.
I might add, there is a control shaman deck starting to appear more frequently that has a stellar performance against aggro, and that is sporting a good 40% of the deck over 4 mana. That deck struggles with Ramp Paladin if it draws the Alura, but just about everything struggles with the turn 4 Tip the Scales play, so not sure that's a disqualifying trait.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I've been on hearthpwn for almost a decade, this account is fresh because I just merged it with blizzard account and that made me a new profile on hearthpwn somehow.
Aren't people's assumptions just amazing ?
I did not ignore to read your post. Ramp paladin is tier 1 and showcases more 10 mana cards than any competitive control deck I've ever seen. However you treat ramp paladin as an aggro, control, combo, tempo, value, overpowered deck is up to you, it makes no difference to your question in the title, in most Hearthstone metas, most classes have a competitive reason to play cards that cost more than 5 mana, and it's not always related to mana cheating.
On this topic, mana cheating has now become almost a norm for (good) high cost cards, it's isn't anything special anymore like in the day of Mysterious Challenger cheating out 5 mana and cutting 5 cards from your deck. Yes, at the time, that was a rare occurence of actual mana "cheating" in a game ruled by the actual fairness of the mana system, but nowadays is entirely different and the whole point of the game is to find card combos that cheat out mana, most competitive high cost cards generate more mana than their "vanilla" cost, it is the actual reason to play higher cost cards and decks, you get better rewards for your mana, in exchange of spending your mana more slowly and having fewer combos at your disposal. Essentially mana cheating cards shouldn't be considered an exception anymore and excluded from the argument, there are many different ways to cheat mana/stats and it is the core of Hearthstone competitive game design, for both low and high cost cards. Name one T1 deck that didn't cheat mana. I didn't look it up but I'd be surprised if you could.
And ramp paladin is just one example of decks that play 10 mana cards, you can make the argument that since ramp paladin is tier 1, it's a good idea to play cards like brawl or chaos nova to counter meta, and plenty other arguments to play almost any card you'd like in at least a tier 2 deck.
Now your question might be, why are tier 1 decks in most metas aggressive decks, regardeless of the cost of the cards ? And the answer is simple, it's a design choice that Blizzard have made when they released Hearthstone and have followed ever since. They don't want the average game to last 30 minutes, that is understandable. Hearthstone is combo based, 30 max health is low, cards that combo faster than others are better on average and make players generate gold/xp faster, it's very logical and there aren't many things you can do about it, other than being at peace with the fact that you will lose your game and your dignity on turn 4 from time to time. As long as it's not turn 2, it's fine by me, there's enough time to recover and greed out the opponent.
Since the first release of Hearthstone, high cost cards have been vastly improved, supported and expanded, more so than low cost cards (cards like Clown, Guardian animal, Survival of the fittest, would have be obscene and very destructive in vanilla/naxxramas Hearthstone), now is the best of times to play greedy decks, occasionally losing on turn 4-5 is nothing compared to some old metas where the majority of your games were decided by turn 2-3, it's a massive difference in how you can build decks and react to massive board early without necessarily relying on mana cheating.
I apologize for being rude it wasn't my intention, I was just quickly dismissing your argument that I've heard every day since the Hearthstone beta, that you can't play high cost cards because of game design being favorable to aggro decks. It's wrong, always have been except in a few select metas.
I'll just stop editing and adding more stuff to my post now, I could talk about this for hours but as a non-native english speaker, this must be a pain to read.
Pardon my assumption. Your post did come off a bit rude, so I was just being sarcastic about it.
I appreciate your following post, though. Very thoughtful, and you make a lot of good points.
Realistically, there is a reason why people call high cost cards "greedy" and the design of the game definitely pushes everyone toward aggro-centric gameplay. It's unfortunate, because not everyone likes that style of play.
Personally, I've come to just accept that losing to a face hunter (or other, similar aggressive deck) is just going to happen once in a while and there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you jam a ton of defensive cards in your deck, you may still not draw what you need at the right moment. Such is Hearthstone.
But I can't help but be sad that some cards just feel too slow for most decks, unless they have a specific combo. Keymaster Alabaster seemed very cool to me when he was first shown off, but in standard there isn't much for him to do. I know there's some wild combos where he can do some cool stuff, but still in the realm of memery, I suppose.
Anyway, on another note... currently, my win rate with my highlander mage deck is 59%, with 29% of matches against paladin... and basically all of them seem to running some form of the new ramp paladin stuff. So if this keeps up, maybe there IS a reason to put high cost cards into your deck.
The paladin is going to give you 10 mana, so you better be ready to use it.
I'm curious to see how your HL mage looks, if you don't mind sharing the list. I've played HL mage exclusively since Uldum released & I don't really see too many others playing it on ladder nowadays.
I always find it interesting to see how others have altered their lists to adapt to the current meta.
No problem. I just uploaded the list on my deck list.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1377007-highlander-mage-dmr
It's nothing ground breaking, but it has been fun.
To connect this with the topic of the thread... I actually just realized, when I was building this on the website, it really does not have a ton of high cost cards, it is much leaner than the original builds were, but still has enough that it feels like it has good power in the late game. And with enough early game cards to get there, it has been pretty good to me.
But I suppose the fact remains, that you can't play high cost cards unless you survive long enough to do so, and unless you know your opponents will always try to out-greed you, you have to build your deck with tools to try and fight aggro, too.
Has the game ever not been like this? I’m not sure what this post is seeking to accomplish. So you don’t like high cost cards that cheat mana? But you also recognize that aggro is hard to deal with. So I ask, what is the problem with mana cheating? How else could you make a card worthwhile at high cost? The problem with high cost cards is drawing them in the early game and potentially dying in the process, so you have to cheat mana later on in order to catch up. Are you saying you wish aggro decks were slower, or you wish that high cost cards didn’t cheat mana? Because it has to be both, but slowing down aggro would just make people complain about expansions being bad and wouldn’t be good for the game. Some people like winning fast. As for cards not cheating mana, what do you want, a bunch of ogres running around? Hearthstone hasn’t existed as a “play card because good stats for the cost” game since vanilla and GvG days.
The problem with mana cheating is that it limits the design space on high cost cards. If mana cheating were limited then the power level of high cost cards could be buffed. If you played Big Warrior with Commencement you know that it isn't the greatest feeling in the world to spend 10 mana to play Scrapyard Colossus only for it to be quickly removed by a lower cost removal.
Scrapyard Colossus is one of the best examples of a minion worth 10 mana actually because it have a sticky element to it. N'Zoth, God of the Deep and Y'Shaarj, the Defiler are strong high cost cards but they require setup so mana cheating them isn't always ideal
Sign Here
Any complain or observation brings the juice drinking trolls out
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Is there a reason to put any card that cost more than 4 in todays meta?
Definitely YES! Be sure to use two Arbor Ups with Druid and Cloud Prince works really well with Secret Mage decks.
This is the main problem I have with the hearthstone community. A large number seem absolutely incapable of having any kind of actual discussion. Click on any thread, no matter the subject, & you will see all the same comments.
"Quit whining/crying"
"Play aggro"
"Git gud"
Very few meaningful comments, if any at all. Just an absolute unwillingness to even attempt to put together a compelling argument. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but this is the primary reason I no longer visit the main subreddit at all.
Don't blame the masses, they are just victims of mindlessly aggressive card design. Just like the Trump-voter a victim of Trump. GOP the victim of Qanon. Ever heard any sense of that species of humanity?
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Well, when no one on the opposing side will even respond to the repeated observations that control and combo decks DON'T lose to this deck at an oppressive rate, what else could possibly constitute a "meaningful comment"?
Anecdotes aren't meaningful comments either, with regards to compelling arguments. Despite the repeated assertions that facts are subjective and evidence is meaningless, I continue to point out the obvious. So far, I've seen nothing to support the notion that Tickatus is holding back what would otherwise be a slower and more control/combo oriented meta.
Furthermore, the actual premise of the OP remains as absurd as it was the day of posting. I tried being meaningful, and it was ignored. So I'll go with the language more people seem to engage.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
My comment was speaking more in a general sense, not necessarily about this particular topic. What I said certainly doesn't apply to you, as you seem to always respond with an actual thought out argument, as opposed to the typical troll type response I often see on here. That, in itself, is appreciated, whether we agree on a topic or not.
But just for the record, I don't agree that Tickatus, itself, is officially the death of control. I do think the cards' effect, is fundamentally flawed, & the epitome of lazy design. I personally, would prefer if the card had never been printed, but after reading Iksars response on Twitter, I now understand that they have essentially thrown caution to the wind as far as card design, to appease a niche audience.
Lol, fair enough. I was just laughing, reflecting on how "niche audience" is probably the nicest thing I've been called on these forums so far.
All other considerations aside, I've never understood how Ayala keeps his job.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
This was his exact quote on Tickatus. It pretty much tells us all we need to know.
"The people that love disruption LOVE disruption though. It's the reason they play the game. To do mean stuff to people! (i know because i am this person)"
Yeah, that's about as moronic a statement as I've ever heard from a PR guy on a number of levels.
Actually, I suppose "do you guys not have phones?" still takes the cake, but this one is a distant but firm second.
EDIT: For the record, no clue whether Ayala's title includes PR anywhere, but he's de facto a PR guy when he's brought out to speak to the player base like this
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
"Disruption is fine as long as it sees fringe play. People like disruption, complaints only arise when it appears all the time."
I actually agree with his statement in the AMA, i guess ppl started complaining cuz in hearthstone, fringe = never sees play. Tickatus was the first time milling saw real play outside of meme mill decks, but the backlash rly doesnt match the cards wr at all. Same with Illucia, which is a MUCH worse disruption card than Tickatus imo, but its fine cuz no one plays priest lol.