I don't know about you folks, but I tend to keep a cheap removal/silence in my opening hand when facing Rogue. Just in case.
But, then I mostly play control decks, so I usually have something to hold onto. I guess if you deck doesn't have any removal this seems a lot more scary. But, there is quite a bit of silence in the meta right now. So, eh. Even when this does go off it is probably countered half the time.
THIS!!!
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EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63/ DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
This is just a nice opener and an unlucky opponent. He takes risk while doing this—> mulliganing this+ sacrificing other cards to gain tempo against his opponent. If you don’t have a response to that you are an aggro player and that’s one of the risks you’re taking while playing aggro. Just embrace it and move on.
I did that too in a game Turn 1 12/12 Edwin vs a Mage and then he played Devolving Missiles.
So I conceded...
So no Big Edwin is not a problem.
flawless logic...
Same logic can be applied to every single card that ever existed.
the logic behind this is fitting. there are enough counters in enough decks, which aren't put there to specifically counter edwin, but other cards which work similar
This is all out of control and ridiculous. When Edwin is in the meta, hard mulligan for single target removal. Galakrond warrior isn’t a viable deck in this meta because it has to run bad cards like ritual chopper. There are numerous 2 cost removals or silence and even more 3 cost, you can even get faced one turn and probably be ok. Instead of having 30 threads about HoF a card that is just stats, put some single target removals in your decks and quit playing solitaire. He isn’t an OTK, he doesn’t have a game breaking battlecry, he burns every card in their hand on the first turn... in a meta where Edwin shines, removal is premium.
This is all out of control and ridiculous. When Edwin is in the meta, hard mulligan for single target removal. Galakrond warrior isn’t a viable deck in this meta because it has to run bad cards like ritual chopper. There are numerous 2 cost removals or silence and even more 3 cost, you can even get faced one turn and probably be ok. Instead of having 30 threads about HoF a card that is just stats, put some single target removals in your decks and quit playing solitaire. He isn’t an OTK, he doesn’t have a game breaking battlecry, he burns every card in their hand on the first turn... in a meta where Edwin shines, removal is premium.
Although I like to play combo rogue - a match should not be decided like this,
it's a bad design. Edwin size should be limited somehow since the card draw and combo options have been improved over the years. so now it's broken...
It’s not broken. This is how it always has been. Even with improved draw and combo packages, you remove the one big card then what? What combo package and draw improvements are going to save that rogue if OP wasn’t running trash cards and instead had removal? Edwin is high risk high reward. If he rogue over extends themself turn one they are screwed if you remove it. They don’t have any more shadowsteps, one of their foxy fraud combo triggers is spent. Edwin is absolutely fine, running removal is harder than complaining.
Do you guys not think that the fact there's an evergreen card out there that forces you to always keep hard removal against a class is something that deserves a HoF? HoF isn't about removing cards that are too powerful, it's about keeping the meta fresh. Holding Shadow Word Death or a Silence effect against Rogues (and sometimes just insta-losing if my deck doesn't run it/I don't draw it and they get lucky) isn't an interesting gameplay scenario anymore. If a card is so game winning early that you have to mulligan for it every single game... that can be fine, but only because if that card will rotate. Edwin won't. We'll be keeping big removal against Rogue FOREVER. Unless I'm brainfarting hard, there's currently no other class in the game where you always hold a specific type of card against them just in case they highroll you with an evergreen card early.
Do you guys not think that the fact there's an evergreen card out there that forces you to always keep hard removal against a class is something that deserves a HoF? HoF isn't about removing cards that are too powerful, it's about keeping the meta fresh. Holding Shadow Word Death or a Silence effect against Rogues (and sometimes just insta-losing if my deck doesn't run it/I don't draw it and they get lucky) isn't an interesting gameplay scenario anymore. If a card is so game winning early that you have to mulligan for it every single game... that can be fine, but only because if that card will rotate. Edwin won't. We'll be keeping big removal against Rogue FOREVER. Unless I'm brainfarting hard, there's currently no other class in the game where you always hold a specific type of card against them just in case they highroll you with an evergreen card early.
No, I think that is perfectly fine. Shadow word: Death is a great card, why wouldn’t you be running it? Silence is an excellent mechanic that is useful against many decks. There have even been silence metas. If you aren’t running cheap single target removal in any deck, you’re doing it wrong. I’ll repeat that. Every single deck benefits from cheap single target removal. When you face rogue, you know they have a low mana curve and lots of ways to get a big scary out. You absolutely should hard mulligan for removal when you match rogue, more than any other class. I can think of ten cards that would have won the game on the spot.
Do you guys not think that the fact there's an evergreen card out there that forces you to always keep hard removal against a class is something that deserves a HoF? HoF isn't about removing cards that are too powerful, it's about keeping the meta fresh. Holding Shadow Word Death or a Silence effect against Rogues (and sometimes just insta-losing if my deck doesn't run it/I don't draw it and they get lucky) isn't an interesting gameplay scenario anymore. If a card is so game winning early that you have to mulligan for it every single game... that can be fine, but only because if that card will rotate. Edwin won't. We'll be keeping big removal against Rogue FOREVER. Unless I'm brainfarting hard, there's currently no other class in the game where you always hold a specific type of card against them just in case they highroll you with an evergreen card early.
No, I think that is perfectly fine. Shadow word: Death is a great card, why wouldn’t you be running it? Silence is an excellent mechanic that is useful against many decks. There have even been silence metas. If you aren’t running cheap single target removal in any deck, you’re doing it wrong. I’ll repeat that. Every single deck benefits from cheap single target removal. When you face rogue, you know they have a low mana curve and lots of ways to get a big scary out. You absolutely should hard mulligan for removal when you match rogue, more than any other class. I can think of ten cards that would have won the game on the spot.
Of course I'm running the removal. The problem is that every game I play against Rogue starts with me mulliganing for removal. That's fine in the short run, but I would like for my interactions with the class to be different in different metas, which Edwin ensures they're not. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I Silence it and they concede enough times. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I can't draw removal for the life of me and they hit me for 24 before I can respond enough times. It's a card that creates the same rather shallow play scenario ad nauseam. The decision to keep a big removal VS Rogue isn't an interesting one. As much as I loved playing Handlock, neither was having to keep removal against early Mountain Giant and Molten Giant, so the cards were HoFed and the game is healthier for it. This is the problem with having a non-rotating classic set. Any card in it that can consistently warp the game around itself this much is going to get tiring.
Do you guys not think that the fact there's an evergreen card out there that forces you to always keep hard removal against a class is something that deserves a HoF? HoF isn't about removing cards that are too powerful, it's about keeping the meta fresh. Holding Shadow Word Death or a Silence effect against Rogues (and sometimes just insta-losing if my deck doesn't run it/I don't draw it and they get lucky) isn't an interesting gameplay scenario anymore. If a card is so game winning early that you have to mulligan for it every single game... that can be fine, but only because if that card will rotate. Edwin won't. We'll be keeping big removal against Rogue FOREVER. Unless I'm brainfarting hard, there's currently no other class in the game where you always hold a specific type of card against them just in case they highroll you with an evergreen card early.
No, I think that is perfectly fine. Shadow word: Death is a great card, why wouldn’t you be running it? Silence is an excellent mechanic that is useful against many decks. There have even been silence metas. If you aren’t running cheap single target removal in any deck, you’re doing it wrong. I’ll repeat that. Every single deck benefits from cheap single target removal. When you face rogue, you know they have a low mana curve and lots of ways to get a big scary out. You absolutely should hard mulligan for removal when you match rogue, more than any other class. I can think of ten cards that would have won the game on the spot.
Of course I'm running the removal. The problem is that every game I play against Rogue starts with me mulliganing for removal. That's fine in the short run, but I would like for my interactions with the class to be different in different metas, which Edwin ensures they're not. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I Silence it and they concede enough times. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I can't draw removal for the life of me and they hit me for 24 before I can respond enough times. It's a card that creates the same rather shallow play scenario ad nauseam. The decision to keep a big removal VS Rogue isn't an interesting one. As much as I loved playing Handlock, neither was having to keep removal against early Mountain Giant and Molten Giant, so the cards were HoFed and the game is healthier for it. This is the problem with having a non-rotating classic set. Any card in it that can consistently warp the game around itself this much is going to get tiring.
So you win when they play it, but it should be HoFed because rogue consistently loses with it? You don’t think mulliganing for removal when you play a against class with early minions is exactly how the game should be played? I really don’t see your point. He isn’t warping a meta around him, he is 4 card combo high rolling and is easily removed. The bigger problem for combo rogue is whirlkick, whirlkick becomes free with shadowstep and provides near infinite value.
Of course I'm running the removal. The problem is that every game I play against Rogue starts with me mulliganing for removal. That's fine in the short run, but I would like for my interactions with the class to be different in different metas, which Edwin ensures they're not. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I Silence it and they concede enough times. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I can't draw removal for the life of me and they hit me for 24 before I can respond enough times. It's a card that creates the same rather shallow play scenario ad nauseam. The decision to keep a big removal VS Rogue isn't an interesting one. As much as I loved playing Handlock, neither was having to keep removal against early Mountain Giant and Molten Giant, so the cards were HoFed and the game is healthier for it. This is the problem with having a non-rotating classic set. Any card in it that can consistently warp the game around itself this much is going to get tiring.
So you win when they play it, but it should be HoFed because rogue consistently loses with it? You don’t think mulliganing for removal when you play a against class with early minions is exactly how the game should be played? I really don’t see your point. He isn’t warping a meta around him, he is 4 card combo high rolling and is easily removed. The bigger problem for combo rogue is whirlkick, whirlkick becomes free with shadowstep and provides near infinite value.
No. I'm not bitching about winning to Edwin. I'm not bitching about losing to Edwin. He could be a perfectly balanced 50/50 and I'd have the exact same issue. My problem is that Edwin consistently makes me play the exact same damn game of Hearthstone over and over and over. I don't care whether he's a strong card, nor do I care that there's better things Rogue does at the moment. Whirlkick Master leaves Standard next expansion. Edwin stays in Standard forever. I've been facing early big Edwins since vanilla. It's not about win or lose, it's about having the game be fun.
Edwin is the only classic legendary that has seen play in months, if not years, which tells you everything you need to know about his power level. As Andrea Bocelli one said, time to say goodbye.
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THIS!!!
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
Every class has a way to deal with this except maybe warrior and Druid.
such salt much BM.
I did that too in a game Turn 1 12/12 Edwin vs a Mage and then he played Devolving Missiles.
So I conceded...
So no Big Edwin is not a problem.
This is just a nice opener and an unlucky opponent. He takes risk while doing this—> mulliganing this+ sacrificing other cards to gain tempo against his opponent. If you don’t have a response to that you are an aggro player and that’s one of the risks you’re taking while playing aggro. Just embrace it and move on.
except quest rogue (which was nerfed twice if i remember correctly) which Rogue deck DIDNT play that stupid card?
If you cant survive this situation, the joke is on you..
flawless logic...
Same logic can be applied to every single card that ever existed.
the logic behind this is fitting. there are enough counters in enough decks, which aren't put there to specifically counter edwin, but other cards which work similar
This is all out of control and ridiculous. When Edwin is in the meta, hard mulligan for single target removal. Galakrond warrior isn’t a viable deck in this meta because it has to run bad cards like ritual chopper. There are numerous 2 cost removals or silence and even more 3 cost, you can even get faced one turn and probably be ok. Instead of having 30 threads about HoF a card that is just stats, put some single target removals in your decks and quit playing solitaire. He isn’t an OTK, he doesn’t have a game breaking battlecry, he burns every card in their hand on the first turn... in a meta where Edwin shines, removal is premium.
Although I like to play combo rogue - a match should not be decided like this,
it's a bad design. Edwin size should be limited somehow since the card draw and combo options have been improved over the years.
so now it's broken...
It’s not broken. This is how it always has been. Even with improved draw and combo packages, you remove the one big card then what? What combo package and draw improvements are going to save that rogue if OP wasn’t running trash cards and instead had removal? Edwin is high risk high reward. If he rogue over extends themself turn one they are screwed if you remove it. They don’t have any more shadowsteps, one of their foxy fraud combo triggers is spent. Edwin is absolutely fine, running removal is harder than complaining.
Do you guys not think that the fact there's an evergreen card out there that forces you to always keep hard removal against a class is something that deserves a HoF? HoF isn't about removing cards that are too powerful, it's about keeping the meta fresh. Holding Shadow Word Death or a Silence effect against Rogues (and sometimes just insta-losing if my deck doesn't run it/I don't draw it and they get lucky) isn't an interesting gameplay scenario anymore. If a card is so game winning early that you have to mulligan for it every single game... that can be fine, but only because if that card will rotate. Edwin won't. We'll be keeping big removal against Rogue FOREVER. Unless I'm brainfarting hard, there's currently no other class in the game where you always hold a specific type of card against them just in case they highroll you with an evergreen card early.
No, I think that is perfectly fine. Shadow word: Death is a great card, why wouldn’t you be running it? Silence is an excellent mechanic that is useful against many decks. There have even been silence metas. If you aren’t running cheap single target removal in any deck, you’re doing it wrong. I’ll repeat that. Every single deck benefits from cheap single target removal. When you face rogue, you know they have a low mana curve and lots of ways to get a big scary out. You absolutely should hard mulligan for removal when you match rogue, more than any other class. I can think of ten cards that would have won the game on the spot.
Of course I'm running the removal. The problem is that every game I play against Rogue starts with me mulliganing for removal. That's fine in the short run, but I would like for my interactions with the class to be different in different metas, which Edwin ensures they're not. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I Silence it and they concede enough times. I've done the scenario where they drop a 12/12 Edwin on 2 and I can't draw removal for the life of me and they hit me for 24 before I can respond enough times. It's a card that creates the same rather shallow play scenario ad nauseam. The decision to keep a big removal VS Rogue isn't an interesting one. As much as I loved playing Handlock, neither was having to keep removal against early Mountain Giant and Molten Giant, so the cards were HoFed and the game is healthier for it. This is the problem with having a non-rotating classic set. Any card in it that can consistently warp the game around itself this much is going to get tiring.
So you win when they play it, but it should be HoFed because rogue consistently loses with it? You don’t think mulliganing for removal when you play a against class with early minions is exactly how the game should be played? I really don’t see your point. He isn’t warping a meta around him, he is 4 card combo high rolling and is easily removed. The bigger problem for combo rogue is whirlkick, whirlkick becomes free with shadowstep and provides near infinite value.
If u can’t remove him tuff shit conceed and go to the next game. Stop your bitching.
Lol complaining bout a card that is now seeing play when it normally sets in collecting dust lol
No elo or mode in the picture.
No. I'm not bitching about winning to Edwin. I'm not bitching about losing to Edwin. He could be a perfectly balanced 50/50 and I'd have the exact same issue. My problem is that Edwin consistently makes me play the exact same damn game of Hearthstone over and over and over. I don't care whether he's a strong card, nor do I care that there's better things Rogue does at the moment. Whirlkick Master leaves Standard next expansion. Edwin stays in Standard forever. I've been facing early big Edwins since vanilla. It's not about win or lose, it's about having the game be fun.
Edwin is the only classic legendary that has seen play in months, if not years, which tells you everything you need to know about his power level. As Andrea Bocelli one said, time to say goodbye.