Yeah, Mana Biscuit and the new dormant Phoenix brought the deck's win rate up to a whopping . . . oh wait.
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In reality. It barely wins. It's under 50 percent.
Also, Check out the health of people that win...they usually are close to death. It's a risky deck (risk it for the biscuit)
Wins feel really satisfying though.
As someone who has tried this deck, I agree.
Risky, not consistent. But feels cool when it works.
When Mozaki, Master Duelist is played, she does say... "who's ready for a show?" And a show is exactly what she puts on.
...and as I'm typing this, I actually just finished a game against someone playing this deck... he got his combo, but didn't have enough spells to bring his spell damage up and missed lethal, and well... after that, there's nothing left. So I doubt this deck is going to be next on the nerffing-block.
lol I’ll try this deck, not sure if it will be effective, Mage decks in standard are not so good compared to others, hyper aggro decks seems to kill mage easily
I've seen a few decks using incanter's flow, which strikes me as just another spell you have to draw early to make it work, but even assuming the cost of spells gets reduced as planned, You still have to have Mozaki, an Apprentice, a cram session or the luckiest Evocation ever (happened to Kibler on his latest video). To even attempt it on turn 7, you'd need a mana biscuit precast.
Meanwhile, the decks I've seen have 2 Arcane Int, 2 Elemental Allies, and 2 Cram Sessions. Assuming you're using the dormant phoenix, you might get 3 cards off your first cram session. You only have 4 elementals plus maybe two primordial studies to hopefully snag another elemental for the Allies trigger. It's not a warlock deck, so you can't rely on hero power to get you to some of these tools. Basically, you have to draw into your draw cards, Mozaki and apprentices have to show up in a timely fashion with no way to tutor for them. . . .
Come to think of it . . . 33% of the time, Mozaki will be in the bottom ten cards of your deck. Against anything with the ability to attack, that's nearly an auto loss. I'd have to crunch the numbers, but off the top of my head, I think somewhere upwards of 42% of all games are unwinnable from the start. That's disregarding matches against decks that just do nothing for the first 12 turns, because frankly, they deserve to lose to everything. But this deck has very little removal; it can't afford to use many frostbolts or arcane missiles on minions. So even a small amount of damage per turn will get the job done before they can get to their win condition.
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The build has been optimized. No Elemental Allies, none of this new dormant spell damage minion etc... These are part of the 'Cyclone Mage' deck.
Mozaki runs pretty much all the 1-mana spells, Evocation, Incanter's Flow, Frostbolt, Cram Session, the Biscuit, Arcane Intellect, maybe Frost Novas (or 1x) and then Apprentices, Mozaki and Auctioneers. If you manage to draw and play Incanter's Flow early enough then on t7 an Auctioneer can draw you pretty much your whole deck (or until you draw all the key pieces), earlier if you also played a cookie already. So next turn you are ready to go for the kill, if you survive. It is quite consistent vs decks that cannot kill you by t8
Not that bad. It's a high skill deck. I've played against people that died to fatigue. milled their combo piece, or just couldn't pull it off because they had to spend too many resources to deal with pressure.
Fair enough if that is a better performing version, I definitely haven't been spending time testing different versions of Mozaki mage.
On the subject of consistency, all I know is in the last 3 days among players who have played at least 25 games (about the lowest settings one can require while looking for some semblance of a real sample size) no version of Mozaki has managed to maintain a 50% win rate on HSReplay. And while I'm fully aware of the limitations of that site, it is fairly rare that ZERO decks break that threshold. 25 games is not a huge requirement.
I think the deck is as amusing as the next guy, and certainly there are decks slow enough to have to worry about it, but I take a very jaundiced view of any thread calling for nerfs unless there is meta-wide oppression taking place.
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Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Sorry but this is not normal... if Team5 doesn't nerf hard some cards then I don't know what they do on their brainstorming meetings, is it normal to allow deck to have Ice blocks, freezes and if you aren't "fast" enough you lose on turn 6? Common man, no matter what some say it is getting way too ridiculous with this cheating mana, ultimate swing turns with any deck. For a game with no insta interaction some things shouldn't be allowed.
The basic premise of miracle decks in turn based game is pretty funny anyway... no way of distrupting opponents combo.
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"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
dude, this thread is on "standard format". Wild is full of broken things, what do u expect?
Oh sorry didn't notice this was Standard thread, didn't want to start another when there already was one about Mozaki.
And the argument for wild really doesn't stand out, that doesn't mean it should still be allowed total degenerate things to happen. Wild should be place to awesome combos due to many cards but seriously turn 6 lethals is bit too much, not to mention from HAND. Free cards swing turns shouldn't be really common and mana cheating could be tuned down as well.
HS is a online game, in local group simple rules would be made to not play OP combos that are not moderated by Team5. Wild is only place you can play all of your cards... well also casual but that is no different than ranked anyway. Not all cards would be ever played or put into deck but you literally see only few decks. That's because those decks are pushing every other bit worse deck out of the way. They are overtuned and Team5 prints more and more support for those archetypes. Not ever allowing other shine.
For a format that is tagged as "wild has many crazy combos" it has pretty low number of different decks with such crazy combos as other cards are completely unplayable because of these decks. Simply put, for such statement, not many broken decks there, only handful that dominate. It is simply boring that it is allowed.
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"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
Bear in mind that 10 mana is distinctly nontrivial to get to in STD, even against "slow" decks. Why would you assume that Wild would not be notably faster?
Videos people post online show the best games.
In reality. It barely wins. It's under 50 percent.
Also, Check out the health of people that win...they usually are close to death. It's a risky deck (risk it for the biscuit)
Wins feel really satisfying though.
Yeah, Mana Biscuit and the new dormant Phoenix brought the deck's win rate up to a whopping . . . oh wait.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
As someone who has tried this deck, I agree.
Risky, not consistent. But feels cool when it works.
When Mozaki, Master Duelist is played, she does say... "who's ready for a show?" And a show is exactly what she puts on.
...and as I'm typing this, I actually just finished a game against someone playing this deck... he got his combo, but didn't have enough spells to bring his spell damage up and missed lethal, and well... after that, there's nothing left. So I doubt this deck is going to be next on the nerffing-block.
The mage has to survive long enough to do his combo u can do enough dmg that he would just conceed
lol I’ll try this deck, not sure if it will be effective, Mage decks in standard are not so good compared to others, hyper aggro decks seems to kill mage easily
I've seen a few decks using incanter's flow, which strikes me as just another spell you have to draw early to make it work, but even assuming the cost of spells gets reduced as planned, You still have to have Mozaki, an Apprentice, a cram session or the luckiest Evocation ever (happened to Kibler on his latest video). To even attempt it on turn 7, you'd need a mana biscuit precast.
Meanwhile, the decks I've seen have 2 Arcane Int, 2 Elemental Allies, and 2 Cram Sessions. Assuming you're using the dormant phoenix, you might get 3 cards off your first cram session. You only have 4 elementals plus maybe two primordial studies to hopefully snag another elemental for the Allies trigger. It's not a warlock deck, so you can't rely on hero power to get you to some of these tools. Basically, you have to draw into your draw cards, Mozaki and apprentices have to show up in a timely fashion with no way to tutor for them. . . .
Come to think of it . . . 33% of the time, Mozaki will be in the bottom ten cards of your deck. Against anything with the ability to attack, that's nearly an auto loss. I'd have to crunch the numbers, but off the top of my head, I think somewhere upwards of 42% of all games are unwinnable from the start. That's disregarding matches against decks that just do nothing for the first 12 turns, because frankly, they deserve to lose to everything. But this deck has very little removal; it can't afford to use many frostbolts or arcane missiles on minions. So even a small amount of damage per turn will get the job done before they can get to their win condition.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Play hunter, or demon hunter, or zoo warlock, or any deck that plays minions turn 1 through 7 and bam you win. Deep derp, and may I add a herp.
such salt much BM.
The build has been optimized. No Elemental Allies, none of this new dormant spell damage minion etc... These are part of the 'Cyclone Mage' deck.
Mozaki runs pretty much all the 1-mana spells, Evocation, Incanter's Flow, Frostbolt, Cram Session, the Biscuit, Arcane Intellect, maybe Frost Novas (or 1x) and then Apprentices, Mozaki and Auctioneers. If you manage to draw and play Incanter's Flow early enough then on t7 an Auctioneer can draw you pretty much your whole deck (or until you draw all the key pieces), earlier if you also played a cookie already. So next turn you are ready to go for the kill, if you survive. It is quite consistent vs decks that cannot kill you by t8
Not that bad. It's a high skill deck. I've played against people that died to fatigue. milled their combo piece, or just couldn't pull it off because they had to spend too many resources to deal with pressure.
Fair enough if that is a better performing version, I definitely haven't been spending time testing different versions of Mozaki mage.
On the subject of consistency, all I know is in the last 3 days among players who have played at least 25 games (about the lowest settings one can require while looking for some semblance of a real sample size) no version of Mozaki has managed to maintain a 50% win rate on HSReplay. And while I'm fully aware of the limitations of that site, it is fairly rare that ZERO decks break that threshold. 25 games is not a huge requirement.
I think the deck is as amusing as the next guy, and certainly there are decks slow enough to have to worry about it, but I take a very jaundiced view of any thread calling for nerfs unless there is meta-wide oppression taking place.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
If Mozaki rises in numbers, just play Priest. Illucia destroys this deck.
Btw. rogue can draw 8-12 cards a turn consistently and nobody says a thing...
It was not nerfed because it is not needed and we need him in Wild mode, thanks for asking.
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Sorry but this is not normal... if Team5 doesn't nerf hard some cards then I don't know what they do on their brainstorming meetings, is it normal to allow deck to have Ice blocks, freezes and if you aren't "fast" enough you lose on turn 6? Common man, no matter what some say it is getting way too ridiculous with this cheating mana, ultimate swing turns with any deck. For a game with no insta interaction some things shouldn't be allowed.
The basic premise of miracle decks in turn based game is pretty funny anyway... no way of distrupting opponents combo.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
And again turn 6! Who ever tells the deck doesn't need hammer is foolish.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
dude, this thread is on "standard format". Wild is full of broken things, what do u expect?
Oh sorry didn't notice this was Standard thread, didn't want to start another when there already was one about Mozaki.
And the argument for wild really doesn't stand out, that doesn't mean it should still be allowed total degenerate things to happen. Wild should be place to awesome combos due to many cards but seriously turn 6 lethals is bit too much, not to mention from HAND. Free cards swing turns shouldn't be really common and mana cheating could be tuned down as well.
HS is a online game, in local group simple rules would be made to not play OP combos that are not moderated by Team5. Wild is only place you can play all of your cards... well also casual but that is no different than ranked anyway. Not all cards would be ever played or put into deck but you literally see only few decks. That's because those decks are pushing every other bit worse deck out of the way. They are overtuned and Team5 prints more and more support for those archetypes. Not ever allowing other shine.
For a format that is tagged as "wild has many crazy combos" it has pretty low number of different decks with such crazy combos as other cards are completely unplayable because of these decks. Simply put, for such statement, not many broken decks there, only handful that dominate. It is simply boring that it is allowed.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
Bear in mind that 10 mana is distinctly nontrivial to get to in STD, even against "slow" decks. Why would you assume that Wild would not be notably faster?
well I said it long time ago but maybe now people enjoy getting destroyed by Mozaki more often..so much fun, great mechanic just like ignite
They do same shit with mage deck.