They nerfed Gala Rogue that Literaly No ONE was complaining about because the say 0 mana cards are not fun for the game.
The nerf DQA to punish HL hunter ==> YA RIGHT!!! Hunter is not gona even feel this change , instead it HURTS HL Mage alot and I'm sorry if you got rekt by some random box or DQA but ASK Mage players how many times they were fked by RENO / Box .. this deck is supposed to be kinda random thats what's fun about it. It doesn't havea high win ratio but when it wins it feels good and you had fun doing some random shit so why not? Anyway fine we will see how it actually all plays out this week.
But now getting to my point!
They buffed Libram Paladin before because it was unplayable I agree fine lets give it a spot in the Meta..
BUT NOW with all the talk about 0 mana cost cards and how they ruin the gameplay, Paladin is the only class that has 0 mana cost Librams and with Lady Liadrin and Libram of Hope this deck is gona be insane ...
So what about that why does palading deserve to have 0 mana cards? Just because he isn't tier 1 ?
Lowkey Paladin's 0 mana cards which take multiply turns to set up, draw and your opponents know what they are does not seems anywhere near as bad as four 0 mana cards from Rogue in 1 turn which can be anything and can swing the game.
Paladin having insane mana discount on Librams is as bad Rogue having 7+ 0 mana cards but you won't be able to convince many people of it because Paladin sucks right now. Once Paladin becomes tier 1, all these people will be spamming here asking for nerfs on Librams.
HS community: Everything is good design until it's meta and everything meta is bad game design.
because libram decks are pretty balanced. 0 mana libram buff card is perhaps pretty strong when you think of it alone, however, that 0 mana card is just a part of a set. You need the libram cost reduction cards to make it cost 0, then you add the other libram spells to make use of the cost reduction guys as well, hence, they are also quite useful spells: heal, taunt, clear.
My point is; you need to consider the libram cards as a whole set-package and not alone. And the whole set is quite balanced. Would an infinite +1 +1 buff be OP in a token druid deck? pirate warrior deck? murloc shaman deck? Absolutely.. But the libram package stays as a control package with balanced power.
That said, the libram package limits the deck building strategy of whichever archetype you put them into, which makes them even more balanced. You might probably include Crystology in your deck in order to tutor your 1 mana librams. Probably Liadrin in order to get even better value. But what happens when you are facing aggro and you draw Libram of Hope Lady Liadrin or even the 4-5 taunt in your starting hand.. This is called deck balance. You dont directly get your 0 cost books at the start of the game. You need to do certain things in order to get to the point where you have a good synergy, which is the idea of most decks in hearthstone.
Thats what i said because pala is not tier 1 No one complains . Soon this will change :)
Also Rogue has the same setup or even slower than palading with the invoke mechanic which you need to make all of the invokes to draw 4 cards which doesnt happen in all games. Also Rogue can draw 4 cards which most of the time are irrelevant only 1 or 2 good drops dont tell me about once that someone did something crazy lucky and all of 4 op cards from their deck that happens1 % of time.
Compare the 4 free cards of rogue to the 7+ pala can get yea i think paladins librams are worse than rogue.
The difference is that all the of the Librams (Libram of Wisdom, Libram of Justice, and Libram of Hope) are designed around the fact that they can be reduced by 6 mana (using 2x Aldor Attendant and 2x Aldor Truthseeker) over the course of a game. They are also typically played over multiple turns rather than all at once in one turn. They require specific setup and the power level of the payoff is known and consistent.
With DQA and Galakrond, the variance and the potential payoff is dramatically higher. You are reducing the cost of cards that were not designed around the fact that they could cost 0. Alexstrasza isn't supposed to cost 0, Nozari isn't supposed to cost 0, Kronx Dragonhoof isn't supposed to cost 0. The vast majority of cards in the game aren't designed to cost 0. But Libram of Wisdom IS designed to cost 0, so its effect is much much weaker in comparison.
Thats what i said because pala is not tier 1 No one complains . Soon this will change :)
Also Rogue has the same setup or even slower than palading with the invoke mechanic which you need to make all of the invokes to draw 4 cards which doesnt happen in all games. Also Rogue can draw 4 cards which most of the time are irrelevant only 1 or 2 good drops dont tell me about once that someone did something crazy lucky and all of 4 op cards from their deck that happens1 % of time.
Compare the 4 free cards of rogue to the 7+ pala can get yea i think paladins librams are worse than rogue.
I don't think Paladin should have 0 cost cards, but They are very controlled and very few at this current time which require a much harder set up and a less swingy set up than Rogue.
Like you may not even draw all your librams as paladin card draw is so bad. However, You almost are always going to draw Gala as a rogue.
The purpose of the nerfs wasnt to hurt hunter. This card was too strong on its own thats it. And i don‘t know on which planet you live my friend but there are enough voices conplaining about gala rogue for quite some time now. Just look at the threads on this forum alone.
And yes, libram paladin becomes 0 mana cards: first they have to „work“ for them and second....they suck. Period.
Paladin won’t be An issue although it he Ta a bit better with the other changes. No one is talking about Quest Warlock either and that one is still viable Pumping out 0 mana malygos and Alex’s. Lol
The purpose of the nerfs wasnt to hurt hunter. This card was too strong on its own thats it. And i don‘t know on which planet you live my friend but there are enough voices conplaining about gala rogue for quite some time now. Just look at the threads on this forum alone.
And yes, libram paladin becomes 0 mana cards: first they have to „work“ for them and second....they suck. Period.
1st of all no one plays gala rogue competively and 2nd Rogue has to WORK the same way for the free cards by needing 4 invokes and no one guarantess that you will draw good cards most of the time it draws 1 or 2 mana cards.
paladin only needs to play 2 cards to get free librams.
The difference is that all the of the Librams (Libram of Wisdom, Libram of Justice, and Libram of Hope) are designed around the fact that they can be reduced by 6 mana (using 2x Aldor Attendant and 2x Aldor Truthseeker) over the course of a game. They are also typically played over multiple turns rather than all at once in one turn. They require specific setup and the power level of the payoff is known and consistent.
With DQA and Galakrond, the variance and the potential payoff is dramatically higher. You are reducing the cost of cards that were not designed around the fact that they could cost 0. Alexstrasza isn't supposed to cost 0, Nozari isn't supposed to cost 0, Kronx Dragonhoof isn't supposed to cost 0. The vast majority of cards in the game aren't designed to cost 0. But Libram of Wisdom IS designed to cost 0, so its effect is much much weaker in comparison.
So what you are saying is that playing DQA and having 0 mana Alex the same turn is busted. I agree with you.
Just tell me now are you satisfied with your opponent after patch playing DQA on turn 10 and then alex or malygos for 1 mana ? Does this make it not broken somehow ? is alex ok to be played as a 1 mana card ? NO! Do you think one turn will change anything? I don't. But I dont care about DQA nerf I just referenced it for 0 mana cost cards.
Also the work rogues has to do is the same he needs to invoke the gala and no one guarantees you will draw your good minions for free.
Actually already thought about that before the newest nerfs, simply because I performed extremely well with that before, too. Pure Paladin has so many tools to stay alive until they can end their opponent, hard control tools, massive heals, etc. Now they are on top of the winrate with Hunters.
And before the nerfs it was my easy tool to stop Demonhunters, had over 90% winrate with that against them. Also no real problems against rogues etc.
I think this will define the meta in some days/weeks until the new xpax.
BTW, the streamer could already playtest and Libram paladin is getting more support and there will be nerfs incoming. With the next expansion this deck is beyond broken so far. ANd it is not even released. YOu could say "let the meta settle", but it's safe to say that Pure Paladin is gonna be broken.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So the new patch is on its way...
They nerfed Gala Rogue that Literaly No ONE was complaining about because the say 0 mana cards are not fun for the game.
The nerf DQA to punish HL hunter ==> YA RIGHT!!! Hunter is not gona even feel this change , instead it HURTS HL Mage alot and I'm sorry if you got rekt by some random box or DQA but ASK Mage players how many times they were fked by RENO / Box .. this deck is supposed to be kinda random thats what's fun about it. It doesn't havea high win ratio but when it wins it feels good and you had fun doing some random shit so why not? Anyway fine we will see how it actually all plays out this week.
But now getting to my point!
They buffed Libram Paladin before because it was unplayable I agree fine lets give it a spot in the Meta..
BUT NOW with all the talk about 0 mana cost cards and how they ruin the gameplay, Paladin is the only class that has 0 mana cost Librams and with Lady Liadrin and Libram of Hope this deck is gona be insane ...
So what about that why does palading deserve to have 0 mana cards? Just because he isn't tier 1 ?
Lowkey Paladin's 0 mana cards which take multiply turns to set up, draw and your opponents know what they are does not seems anywhere near as bad as four 0 mana cards from Rogue in 1 turn which can be anything and can swing the game.
Paladin having insane mana discount on Librams is as bad Rogue having 7+ 0 mana cards but you won't be able to convince many people of it because Paladin sucks right now. Once Paladin becomes tier 1, all these people will be spamming here asking for nerfs on Librams.
HS community: Everything is good design until it's meta and everything meta is bad game design.
because libram decks are pretty balanced. 0 mana libram buff card is perhaps pretty strong when you think of it alone, however, that 0 mana card is just a part of a set. You need the libram cost reduction cards to make it cost 0, then you add the other libram spells to make use of the cost reduction guys as well, hence, they are also quite useful spells: heal, taunt, clear.
My point is; you need to consider the libram cards as a whole set-package and not alone. And the whole set is quite balanced. Would an infinite +1 +1 buff be OP in a token druid deck? pirate warrior deck? murloc shaman deck? Absolutely.. But the libram package stays as a control package with balanced power.
That said, the libram package limits the deck building strategy of whichever archetype you put them into, which makes them even more balanced. You might probably include Crystology in your deck in order to tutor your 1 mana librams. Probably Liadrin in order to get even better value. But what happens when you are facing aggro and you draw Libram of Hope Lady Liadrin or even the 4-5 taunt in your starting hand.. This is called deck balance. You dont directly get your 0 cost books at the start of the game. You need to do certain things in order to get to the point where you have a good synergy, which is the idea of most decks in hearthstone.
Thats what i said because pala is not tier 1 No one complains . Soon this will change :)
Also Rogue has the same setup or even slower than palading with the invoke mechanic which you need to make all of the invokes to draw 4 cards which doesnt happen in all games. Also Rogue can draw 4 cards which most of the time are irrelevant only 1 or 2 good drops dont tell me about once that someone did something crazy lucky and all of 4 op cards from their deck that happens1 % of time.
Compare the 4 free cards of rogue to the 7+ pala can get yea i think paladins librams are worse than rogue.
The difference is that all the of the Librams (Libram of Wisdom, Libram of Justice, and Libram of Hope) are designed around the fact that they can be reduced by 6 mana (using 2x Aldor Attendant and 2x Aldor Truthseeker) over the course of a game. They are also typically played over multiple turns rather than all at once in one turn. They require specific setup and the power level of the payoff is known and consistent.
With DQA and Galakrond, the variance and the potential payoff is dramatically higher. You are reducing the cost of cards that were not designed around the fact that they could cost 0. Alexstrasza isn't supposed to cost 0, Nozari isn't supposed to cost 0, Kronx Dragonhoof isn't supposed to cost 0. The vast majority of cards in the game aren't designed to cost 0. But Libram of Wisdom IS designed to cost 0, so its effect is much much weaker in comparison.
I don't think Paladin should have 0 cost cards, but They are very controlled and very few at this current time which require a much harder set up and a less swingy set up than Rogue.
Like you may not even draw all your librams as paladin card draw is so bad. However, You almost are always going to draw Gala as a rogue.
The purpose of the nerfs wasnt to hurt hunter. This card was too strong on its own thats it. And i don‘t know on which planet you live my friend but there are enough voices conplaining about gala rogue for quite some time now. Just look at the threads on this forum alone.
And yes, libram paladin becomes 0 mana cards: first they have to „work“ for them and second....they suck. Period.
A +1/+1 buff on it's own wouldn't be worth anywhere near 1 mana, making it 0 with some work should be an issue.
While it appears that 0 mana cards is now a philosophy they shy away from, they said the nerfs were to prep the classes for future expansions.
Paladin won’t be An issue although it he Ta a bit better with the other changes. No one is talking about Quest Warlock either and that one is still viable Pumping out 0 mana malygos and Alex’s. Lol
There's literally a hunter card that cost 2 and does exact same thing lmao
Fun > Meta
1st of all no one plays gala rogue competively and 2nd Rogue has to WORK the same way for the free cards by needing 4 invokes and no one guarantess that you will draw good cards most of the time it draws 1 or 2 mana cards.
paladin only needs to play 2 cards to get free librams.
So what you are saying is that playing DQA and having 0 mana Alex the same turn is busted. I agree with you.
Just tell me now are you satisfied with your opponent after patch playing DQA on turn 10 and then alex or malygos for 1 mana ? Does this make it not broken somehow ? is alex ok to be played as a 1 mana card ? NO! Do you think one turn will change anything? I don't. But I dont care about DQA nerf I just referenced it for 0 mana cost cards.
Also the work rogues has to do is the same he needs to invoke the gala and no one guarantees you will draw your good minions for free.
Best idea. Tech silence. Win game.
No. Because nothing needs to be said.
Libram Paladin is 1-2 cards away from becoming Tier 1, even broken I would say.
..playing Libram of Hope at 6 mana for example is extremely strong..If paladin becomes consistent it will definitely have to be re-balanced..
Silence is not going to "Win" you the game and you also forget that Lady Liadrin is a thing
Actually already thought about that before the newest nerfs, simply because I performed extremely well with that before, too.
Pure Paladin has so many tools to stay alive until they can end their opponent, hard control tools, massive heals, etc.
Now they are on top of the winrate with Hunters.
And before the nerfs it was my easy tool to stop Demonhunters, had over 90% winrate with that against them. Also no real problems against rogues etc.
I think this will define the meta in some days/weeks until the new xpax.
BTW, the streamer could already playtest and Libram paladin is getting more support and there will be nerfs incoming. With the next expansion this deck is beyond broken so far. ANd it is not even released. YOu could say "let the meta settle", but it's safe to say that Pure Paladin is gonna be broken.