It's not the best. It's not the worst. A lot of decks just don't "feel" good, and that's the sticking point for a lot of people. I know it is for me.
The only playable classes that aren't heavily reliant on various forms of RNG are Warrior and Demon Hunter.
Highlander decks are singletons and DQA is one of the biggest RNG problems in the game. Druid is incredibly dependent on hitting ramp early. Priest, Rogue, and Mage are RNG fiestas.
Paladin, Shaman, and recently Warlock are really underpowered compared to the other classes.
It's not the best. It's not the worst. A lot of decks just don't "feel" good, and that's the sticking point for a lot of people. I know it is for me.
The only playable classes that aren't heavily reliant on various forms of RNG are Warrior and Demon Hunter.
Highlander decks are singletons and DQA is one of the biggest RNG problems in the game. Druid is incredibly dependent on hitting ramp early. Priest, Rogue, and Mage are RNG fiestas.
Paladin, Shaman, and recently Warlock are really underpowered compared to the other classes
I agree with most of what you said but I think you are wrong to confuse random card generation with luck. That may seem oxymoronic, but as in all games with chance, it is about manipulating randomness to favor you more often than not. Rogue requires dozens of seemingly insignificant decisions and orderings that quickly separate skill ranges amongst players. While there is random generation, I think it requires a great deal of skill to play at an elite level.
Having said that, Mage is far gone. Once you are able to play it optimally, it becomes complete chance. Basically, at high legend, Mage is crapshoot because for a very good player it is easy to play outside of one or two big decisions throughout a game.
Druid is an understandable complaint, I'm indifferent about it but I can accept that it is not very fun to play against.
Priest is certainly heavily RNG based, but the class as a whole is not too strong that it's a significant issue for me.
Paladin has a lot of hidden gems in standard. I think it's one set away from being very good. Shaman... seems hopeless at the moment. If they decide to commit to totems or control then it could be very powerful, but like Paladin, it seems like they're doing too many different things with the class and that's preventing it from being strong in one particular area. Warlock misses Mountain Giant!
I agree with most of what you said but I think you are wrong to confuse random card generation with luck. That may seem oxymoronic, but as in all games with chance, it is about manipulating randomness to favor you more often than not. Rogue requires dozens of seemingly insignificant decisions and orderings that quickly separate skill ranges amongst players. While there is random generation, I think it requires a great deal of skill to play at an elite level.
Having said that, Mage is far gone. Once you are able to play it optimally, it becomes complete chance. Basically, at high legend, Mage is crapshoot because for a very good player it is easy to play outside of one or two big decisions throughout a game.
Druid is an understandable complaint, I'm indifferent about it but I can accept that it is not very fun to play against.
Priest is certainly heavily RNG based, but the class as a whole is not too strong that it's a significant issue for me.
FWIW, I actually didn't use the word luck at all. I think you are reading it into what I said.
Managing RNG is always going to be a part of this game, and it is important. But it's all a spectrum. And right now, myself and many others feel that many classes in the game are too far on the Lots of Game-Deciding RNG side of the spectrum.
I think what vS said in their most recent podcast is true: many of these classes are so dependent on random card generation because they don't actually have a way to kill their opponents. Actions like HOF-ing Leeroy and Mind Blast, and nerfing Cold Blood exacerbated this problem. Getting rid of them was fine, but they didn't replace those cards (yet) with ones that actually do things to end games.
This meta and expansion has basically done the impossible for me. It has managed to bore me so much that I dont even want to play nor do I feel a desire to even open the game. I cant believe how stale the game feels right now, its almost insulting. It actually makes me long for the days of pirate warrior. That's how dull it is
As I said above somwhere I don't think it is the worst, but there were definetly a lot of extremely terrible decisions in the game since the rotation.
This reaches beyond the actual meta. And I seriously hope that some heads rolled in the lead design team. Because If the first expansion is the way to go for the rest of the year it will be terrible (also the terrible last patch for battlegrounds).
I actually have to Edit after I treid to get to the next bracket for the end of the season: Corona shall wipe the team :)
The worst by far was either pirate warrior vs reno mage meta (horrible because the polarisation removed all skill, it was all down to mulligans), or the face hunter meta, where once I actually face 11 face hunters in a row. Jade Druid and Shamanstone were also kinda memorably horrible.
So I don't think it's as bad as it could be, but clownfiesta mage is bad for the game right now, along with the insane value and also heavy RNG Rogue and Priest. The heavy power creep has made the game very swingy as well. Some cards indivually high-roll you the game, which just feels bad. They still seem to think res priest is valid identity when they've been told repeatedly that no one likes this kind of archetype in hearthstone with the graveyard system as it stands.
FWIW, I actually didn't use the word luck at all. I think you are reading it into what I said.
Managing RNG is always going to be a part of this game, and it is important. But it's all a spectrum. And right now, myself and many others feel that many classes in the game are too far on the Lots of Game-Deciding RNG side of the spectrum.
I think what vS said in their most recent podcast is true: many of these classes are so dependent on random card generation because they don't actually have a way to kill their opponents. Actions like HOF-ing Leeroy and Mind Blast, and nerfing Cold Blood exacerbated this problem. Getting rid of them was fine, but they didn't replace those cards (yet) with ones that actually do things to end games.
I think that you are implying luck when you suppose a dependency on RNG. I personally don't think it is a problem with Rogue, but I agree that it is with classes like Mage and highlander DQA rolls. Priest I'm not fond of but it's not particularly strong, though I imagine it will be a significant problem going forward.
That is true. Nothing was more oppressive than Undertaker, the most powerful early game card of all time. The only defense was being lucky enough to draw your counter in your opening hand to even have a chance.
As always, it depends. If any of decks that you like to play is good, then you'll like the meta. If not, then you won't, it's simple as that. Personally I don't like it since I play Warlock almost exclusively and he sucks now (he's probably worst since beta).
Far from the worst, but to be fair, it is far from the best too.
Far from the worst indeed, but boring as hell.
Also still no place to play fun / janky decks. If i had a place to play fun decks it would be alright, but there isn't.
You can play any deck you like in casual or on ladder, you're not lacking a place to play them. You can also play private games with like minded players or friends.
What you seem to be wanting is a game mode where you can play 'janky' decks and remain competitive but the problem with that is if it is a competitive deck, you can't also describe it as janky.
What you're wanting is for modes or rules that are designed to suit what you personally see as fun, which is subjective.
The players control what decks are being played, you can make all the game modes you like, add in all the restrictions to ban the most powerful cards or legendary cards etc and that mode would still develop a META. The META is the Most Effective Tactic Available. Everything has a META of some description, you aren't describing something specifically, you're just referring to the best tactic of achieving whatever it is you're wanting to achieve. Any game mode in Hearthstone will ultimately boil down to players wanting to win, that's literally the point of firing up the game.
There's no guarantee that a further 10 game modes would give you what you're looking for because you want to play poorly performing decks and win, you can't have your cake and eat it though so you're going to leave yourself pretty disappointed.
Is it easier for you to wait for Blizzard to create a mode that suits your niche requirements or for you to create a forum post, maybe a thread on the HS sub reddit etc and ask for like minded players which you can add as friends and play with the pre agreement of using lower performing decks than you'll find in casual or standard? You can literally agree whatever rules you want in that instance.
Honestly, while there are certainly things to fix (there was a balance patch announcement where hopefully they'll get some of the problem cards) I think that this meta is better than some we've had in awhile. Some of the more problematic cards have been nerfed in recent months, though there is still work to do, notably on some of the uninteractive combos that exist to make them less braindead in execution, like Open The Waygate or warlock Mecha'thun.
Now MTGA right now... ugh. That IS the worst meta I've ever seen in that game, lol. Hearthstoners have nothing to complain about compared to Magic players right now, hehe.
Honestly, while there are certainly things to fix (there was a balance patch announcement where hopefully they'll get some of the problem cards) I think that this meta is better than some we've had in awhile. Some of the more problematic cards have been nerfed in recent months, though there is still work to do, notably on some of the uninteractive combos that exist to make them less braindead in execution, like Open The Waygate or warlock Mecha'thun.
Now MTGA right now... ugh. That IS the worst meta I've ever seen in that game, lol. Hearthstoners have nothing to complain about compared to Magic players right now, hehe.
It's not the best. It's not the worst. A lot of decks just don't "feel" good, and that's the sticking point for a lot of people. I know it is for me.
The only playable classes that aren't heavily reliant on various forms of RNG are Warrior and Demon Hunter.
Highlander decks are singletons and DQA is one of the biggest RNG problems in the game.
Druid is incredibly dependent on hitting ramp early.
Priest, Rogue, and Mage are RNG fiestas.
Paladin, Shaman, and recently Warlock are really underpowered compared to the other classes.
I agree with most of what you said but I think you are wrong to confuse random card generation with luck. That may seem oxymoronic, but as in all games with chance, it is about manipulating randomness to favor you more often than not. Rogue requires dozens of seemingly insignificant decisions and orderings that quickly separate skill ranges amongst players. While there is random generation, I think it requires a great deal of skill to play at an elite level.
Having said that, Mage is far gone. Once you are able to play it optimally, it becomes complete chance. Basically, at high legend, Mage is crapshoot because for a very good player it is easy to play outside of one or two big decisions throughout a game.
Druid is an understandable complaint, I'm indifferent about it but I can accept that it is not very fun to play against.
Priest is certainly heavily RNG based, but the class as a whole is not too strong that it's a significant issue for me.
Paladin has a lot of hidden gems in standard. I think it's one set away from being very good. Shaman... seems hopeless at the moment. If they decide to commit to totems or control then it could be very powerful, but like Paladin, it seems like they're doing too many different things with the class and that's preventing it from being strong in one particular area. Warlock misses Mountain Giant!
FWIW, I actually didn't use the word luck at all. I think you are reading it into what I said.
Managing RNG is always going to be a part of this game, and it is important. But it's all a spectrum. And right now, myself and many others feel that many classes in the game are too far on the Lots of Game-Deciding RNG side of the spectrum.
I think what vS said in their most recent podcast is true: many of these classes are so dependent on random card generation because they don't actually have a way to kill their opponents. Actions like HOF-ing Leeroy and Mind Blast, and nerfing Cold Blood exacerbated this problem. Getting rid of them was fine, but they didn't replace those cards (yet) with ones that actually do things to end games.
Demon Hunters (with a few cards) are dominating meta.
This is the worst thing in HS history
Literally every single expansion since Naxx, someone has been going ''Is this the worse meta?'' Someone will always think so.
We are getting tired of answering this question every goddamn meta
Far from the worst indeed, but boring as hell.
Also still no place to play fun / janky decks. If i had a place to play fun decks it would be alright, but there isn't.
This meta and expansion has basically done the impossible for me. It has managed to bore me so much that I dont even want to play nor do I feel a desire to even open the game. I cant believe how stale the game feels right now, its almost insulting. It actually makes me long for the days of pirate warrior. That's how dull it is
As I said above somwhere I don't think it is the worst, but there were definetly a lot of extremely terrible decisions in the game since the rotation.
This reaches beyond the actual meta. And I seriously hope that some heads rolled in the lead design team. Because If the first expansion is the way to go for the rest of the year it will be terrible (also the terrible last patch for battlegrounds).
I actually have to Edit after I treid to get to the next bracket for the end of the season: Corona shall wipe the team :)
The worst by far was either pirate warrior vs reno mage meta (horrible because the polarisation removed all skill, it was all down to mulligans), or the face hunter meta, where once I actually face 11 face hunters in a row. Jade Druid and Shamanstone were also kinda memorably horrible.
So I don't think it's as bad as it could be, but clownfiesta mage is bad for the game right now, along with the insane value and also heavy RNG Rogue and Priest. The heavy power creep has made the game very swingy as well. Some cards indivually high-roll you the game, which just feels bad. They still seem to think res priest is valid identity when they've been told repeatedly that no one likes this kind of archetype in hearthstone with the graveyard system as it stands.
I think that you are implying luck when you suppose a dependency on RNG. I personally don't think it is a problem with Rogue, but I agree that it is with classes like Mage and highlander DQA rolls. Priest I'm not fond of but it's not particularly strong, though I imagine it will be a significant problem going forward.
Oh, boy, those sweet memories of deathrattle face hunter in Naxxramas and Jade Druid vs Razakus Priest in Frozen Throne.
Those were the days I actually thought on quitting this for good.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
That is true. Nothing was more oppressive than Undertaker, the most powerful early game card of all time. The only defense was being lucky enough to draw your counter in your opening hand to even have a chance.
Every Meta is stale and boring after 2 months.
As always, it depends. If any of decks that you like to play is good, then you'll like the meta. If not, then you won't, it's simple as that. Personally I don't like it since I play Warlock almost exclusively and he sucks now (he's probably worst since beta).
You can play any deck you like in casual or on ladder, you're not lacking a place to play them. You can also play private games with like minded players or friends.
What you seem to be wanting is a game mode where you can play 'janky' decks and remain competitive but the problem with that is if it is a competitive deck, you can't also describe it as janky.
What you're wanting is for modes or rules that are designed to suit what you personally see as fun, which is subjective.
The players control what decks are being played, you can make all the game modes you like, add in all the restrictions to ban the most powerful cards or legendary cards etc and that mode would still develop a META. The META is the Most Effective Tactic Available. Everything has a META of some description, you aren't describing something specifically, you're just referring to the best tactic of achieving whatever it is you're wanting to achieve. Any game mode in Hearthstone will ultimately boil down to players wanting to win, that's literally the point of firing up the game.
There's no guarantee that a further 10 game modes would give you what you're looking for because you want to play poorly performing decks and win, you can't have your cake and eat it though so you're going to leave yourself pretty disappointed.
Is it easier for you to wait for Blizzard to create a mode that suits your niche requirements or for you to create a forum post, maybe a thread on the HS sub reddit etc and ask for like minded players which you can add as friends and play with the pre agreement of using lower performing decks than you'll find in casual or standard? You can literally agree whatever rules you want in that instance.
Honestly, while there are certainly things to fix (there was a balance patch announcement where hopefully they'll get some of the problem cards) I think that this meta is better than some we've had in awhile. Some of the more problematic cards have been nerfed in recent months, though there is still work to do, notably on some of the uninteractive combos that exist to make them less braindead in execution, like Open The Waygate or warlock Mecha'thun.
Now MTGA right now... ugh. That IS the worst meta I've ever seen in that game, lol. Hearthstoners have nothing to complain about compared to Magic players right now, hehe.
They already announced the balance changes.
Not the worst meta, but 100% the worst decks and cards ever printed.