So I've been playing HS on and off since beta (every new two expansions I get back for like 2 weeks). This time I chose to play Embiggen Druid, I got to platinum quite fast and then reached a wall. I've also played Treant Druid last expansion.
My problem is: how do I enjoy this game, if half of the decks are arbitrary and you straight up can't win against them with some classes? How are both players to enjoy the game, if only one of them wins and the round itself may get frustrating towards the end?
What's Blizzard's idea on dealing with 5 secrets from all classes? Do they think as a casual player I'll memorize them, or am I OBLIGATED to use Hearhtpwn's secrets calculator? Or am I to play into them knowingly and enjoy it? Remember how they nerfed Mind Control, not because it was OP, but because you couldn't play around it and it was emotionally unfun? Did they forget it?
I can put on board two 10/12 Flying Guardians spending ten mana, and then face multiple Convicing Infiltrators. What's the point? My play is arbitrary and easily set up, their play is even more arbitrary. Blizzard just prints more over the top removals (how many silence+remove card are there?) and more overpowered cards, realistically you are getting less and less ways to play directly around other decks, because you can't dillute your deck with counter-cards. You are SET to lose quite early in the game, when your opponent meets his win condition in 4th turn, or you lose by crazy RNG.
I know it's not 2013 when playing a Yeti and a Boulderfirst Ogre was the best play, but these decks are just SO gimmicky you can no longer use your deck against them. Some decks you just can't virtually beat unless they draw shit for 10 turns straight. It's scissor-rock-paper instead of picking the right decision with your deck. How did they fck up so bad? Ok, so I'm supposed to fix my deck or ditch it entirely - so there's no place in this game to play a fun but unviable deck?
Maybe not the best example, but playing LoL - you may lose, you may have a leaver on your team, but there's a potential for scoring a skillful kill that will satisfy you etc., you will remember it, I remember my OldKarma plays from 2012. How is outplaying a Secret Rogue satisfying, if after I deal with all their BS they just draw 10 spell damage to face? Seeing Kayn Sunfury after dealing with all the face damage from DH and setting up taunts?
I'm open to hearing I'm a noob, but I'm interested in getting to know what's their goal as a game designer team, what is the player to feel and do in order to have fun.
Well, it's basically what I write under every post like this, but I will repeat for you. In every existing card game there are meme, bad, Ok and good decks. If you expect to see a game where every possible deck is on the same power level... well, try in a dream. Let me explain you this using Hearthstone though. There have never been "times" when every deck was fun and competetive. Basically what we are talking about is called meta. It has always existed and will always exist. Meta simply determines power level of played decks by looking at their overall winrate. If you wanna win with a deck like Mogu Cultist OTK, well it's possible but it will never be in the meta. Unfortunately meta makes it impossible to main a class, as sometimes certain classes are just unplayeable. However, this is normal. Nothing more to explain, I guess.
I think it is normal to come to this point. How many cards can you print without creating unbalanced and gimmicky decks? So... I guess this is the beginning of end for Hearthstone. But until the end, there will be a long agony before all people who play it for the love of skillful plays leave.
Well, it's basically what I write under every post like this, but I will repeat for you. In every existing card game there are meme, bad, Ok and good decks. If you expect to see a game where every possible deck is on the same power level... well, try in a dream. Let me explain you this using Hearthstone though. There have never been "times" when every deck was fun and competetive. Basically what we are talking about is called meta. It has always existed and will always exist. Meta simply determines power level of played decks by looking at their overall winrate. If you wanna win with a deck like Mogu Cultist OTK, well it's possible but it will never be in the meta. Unfortunately meta makes it impossible to main a class, as sometimes certain classes are just unplayeable. However, this is normal. Nothing more to explain, I guess.
Usually TCGs aim to having a handful of viable meta decks, usually around 10-15 of a similar winrate is ideal.
The problem in HS is they absolutely gutted card draw for Paladins, Priests, Shamans and Warriors. So they're all terrible classes. Priests have viability in Res, but that's it. So class diversity is down by a whopping 4 classes. It doesn't help that DH dethroned Hunter as being better at aggro and midrange, either.
They could fix the issue by rotating cards like Crystology back into standard. But Blizzard is terrible at balancing Hearthstone.
Well, it's basically what I write under every post like this, but I will repeat for you. In every existing card game there are meme, bad, Ok and good decks. If you expect to see a game where every possible deck is on the same power level... well, try in a dream. Let me explain you this using Hearthstone though. There have never been "times" when every deck was fun and competetive. Basically what we are talking about is called meta. It has always existed and will always exist. Meta simply determines power level of played decks by looking at their overall winrate. If you wanna win with a deck like Mogu Cultist OTK, well it's possible but it will never be in the meta. Unfortunately meta makes it impossible to main a class, as sometimes certain classes are just unplayeable. However, this is normal. Nothing more to explain, I guess.
Usually TCGs aim to having a handful of viable meta decks, usually around 10-15 of a similar winrate is ideal.
The problem in HS is they absolutely gutted card draw for Paladins, Priests, Shamans and Warriors. So they're all terrible classes. Priests have viability in Res, but that's it. So class diversity is down by a whopping 4 classes. It doesn't help that DH dethroned Hunter as being better at aggro and midrange, either.
They could fix the issue by rotating cards like Crystology back into standard. But Blizzard is terrible at balancing Hearthstone.
Yes that's correct. I think there are many possible improvements, but if they wanted to add them, Blizzard would have to create a new game. First of all, many legendaries are not really so "legendary". Usually it's about most of the classic legendaries. I think it's not a good thing that some legendaries are simply much more powerful than the others. But in my opionion it would be better to simply create a new game - "Hearthstone 2" with new cards and work from 0. Because for now there is simply no way to balance the game. It's not Blizzard's fault - it's normal for all games.
Here is a honest opinion from an experienced player, Hearthstone is not fun anymore, and never will be. Sure you will find a bit of fun here and there, for example at the beginning of a new expansion when people are trying out new cool stuff. But then people make some cancer deck thats not fun to play against and everyone is gonna spam it till it gets nerfed. People argue "well thats how card games work", i mean there is always gonna be op decks in a meta, but if got a card game where you end up with 3 broken decks that drain every essence of fun from the game something is wrong. Had tons of friends that used to play HS, guess what? Im the only guy left playing it and im probably gonna stop playing too. Just look at HS on twitch, 90% of streamers are playing battlegrounds, a side mode of the game thats kinda ok, barely anyone plays constructed or arena. The game is dying and rightfully so.
When you stated wondering if they expect you to know the secrets, I lost all interest immediately.
This game is very simplistic compared to many other tcgs, but yes there are some facets that you’re expected to actually know. Like the cards, including secrets, the meta, etc.
Secrets aside, what success do you think you’ll have if you try playing knowing only what 20-30% of the standard card pool is? You won’t even know what spells/battlecries to play around. You need to do some due diligence and actually learn what the cards do that are in the format.
Its crazy to me that you even made this point, because learning is a part of ANY video game.
This is a little bit of an over the top rant, but I will agree that it feels pretty rare when a game I play is actually decided by actual gameplay. I would like to see the game figure out a way to build a meta where more decks can actually compete against one another, rather than having most games decided by matchup and draw luck. I just played a casual match, and we were both playing janky stuff (him/her : shaman, me : warlock), and it dragged thru into multiple fatigue turns, with all sorts of bananas twists and turns, and I suddenly remembered for a moment what fun felt like in Hearthstone :)
the number one culprit of making hearthstone into a garbage game is sites like this one and hs replay. there i said it. the information travels to quick and god forbid someone actually took the time and made their own deck. remember when secret paladin was super op back in the day. try playing the same deck today it just doesn't stand up anymore. the game is broken. there is no fixing it and it's not blizzards fault either. it's the spread of information is to quick these days. you wanna make hearthstone a better place to have fun stop posting your decks. even though it's super cool and all that shit just don't. keep it to yourself and just know that you didn't contribute to this garabge. now bring on the salt thread comments fuckin dickheads
What's Blizzard's idea on dealing with 5 secrets from all classes? Do they think as a casual player I'll memorize them, or am I OBLIGATED to use Hearhtpwn's secrets calculator?
Umm, yes? It's a competitive card game in a ranked mode. You are absolutely meant to know the secrets your opponent could have played and which ones are currently viable in the meta. The fact that you would think having to learn some aspects of the actual game to get past PLATINUM ranked mode is unreasonable is asinine.
Hearthstone is not a difficult game but having knowledge about the cards and decks currently being played is kind of mandatory if you want to continue progressing in ranked mode. Would you play World of Warcraft and expect to do well in raid content if you didn't know your own classes rotation or the mechanics of the fight?
The game does have issues with balance and the design philosophy that Team5 employs is often inexplicable. There are valid reasons to be annoyed with the state of the game but I think your complaints are aimed at some really unavoidable features of CCG's.
To solve this "unbalance" people are complaining about, or even "death of hearthstone": Maby stop making more powerful cards, thats what leads to "death of hearthstone". Make more cards, and not more powerful cards just more cards and more features to play around tings. More abilities more cards more brain to use ! But, of course there always going to be someone whining about loosing with their meta deck that was supposed to make thair year!
The problem in HS is they absolutely gutted card draw for Paladins, Priests, Shamans and Warriors. So they're all terrible classes. Priests have viability in Res, but that's it. So class diversity is down by a whopping 4 classes. It doesn't help that DH dethroned Hunter as being better at aggro and midrange, either.
What are you talking about? Both Galakrond Priest and especially Pirate/Bomb Warrior are doing very well at the moment - but of course, those decks are harder to pilot than say Spell Druid and Highlander Hunter, which might drive down their winrate in lower ranks.
Hearthstone is a great game, in my opinion much better than other card games. The cool thing in hearthstone is that even a meta deck can lose to a regular one. It has it pros and cons, but it has evolved goodly in the last years. Have fun and try to not look to things that make you sad or angry
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I've been playing HS on and off since beta (every new two expansions I get back for like 2 weeks). This time I chose to play Embiggen Druid, I got to platinum quite fast and then reached a wall. I've also played Treant Druid last expansion.
My problem is: how do I enjoy this game, if half of the decks are arbitrary and you straight up can't win against them with some classes? How are both players to enjoy the game, if only one of them wins and the round itself may get frustrating towards the end?
What's Blizzard's idea on dealing with 5 secrets from all classes? Do they think as a casual player I'll memorize them, or am I OBLIGATED to use Hearhtpwn's secrets calculator? Or am I to play into them knowingly and enjoy it? Remember how they nerfed Mind Control, not because it was OP, but because you couldn't play around it and it was emotionally unfun? Did they forget it?
I can put on board two 10/12 Flying Guardians spending ten mana, and then face multiple Convicing Infiltrators. What's the point? My play is arbitrary and easily set up, their play is even more arbitrary. Blizzard just prints more over the top removals (how many silence+remove card are there?) and more overpowered cards, realistically you are getting less and less ways to play directly around other decks, because you can't dillute your deck with counter-cards. You are SET to lose quite early in the game, when your opponent meets his win condition in 4th turn, or you lose by crazy RNG.
I know it's not 2013 when playing a Yeti and a Boulderfirst Ogre was the best play, but these decks are just SO gimmicky you can no longer use your deck against them. Some decks you just can't virtually beat unless they draw shit for 10 turns straight. It's scissor-rock-paper instead of picking the right decision with your deck. How did they fck up so bad? Ok, so I'm supposed to fix my deck or ditch it entirely - so there's no place in this game to play a fun but unviable deck?
Maybe not the best example, but playing LoL - you may lose, you may have a leaver on your team, but there's a potential for scoring a skillful kill that will satisfy you etc., you will remember it, I remember my OldKarma plays from 2012. How is outplaying a Secret Rogue satisfying, if after I deal with all their BS they just draw 10 spell damage to face? Seeing Kayn Sunfury after dealing with all the face damage from DH and setting up taunts?
I'm open to hearing I'm a noob, but I'm interested in getting to know what's their goal as a game designer team, what is the player to feel and do in order to have fun.
tldr: salt
Well, it's basically what I write under every post like this, but I will repeat for you. In every existing card game there are meme, bad, Ok and good decks. If you expect to see a game where every possible deck is on the same power level... well, try in a dream. Let me explain you this using Hearthstone though. There have never been "times" when every deck was fun and competetive. Basically what we are talking about is called meta. It has always existed and will always exist. Meta simply determines power level of played decks by looking at their overall winrate. If you wanna win with a deck like Mogu Cultist OTK, well it's possible but it will never be in the meta. Unfortunately meta makes it impossible to main a class, as sometimes certain classes are just unplayeable. However, this is normal. Nothing more to explain, I guess.
I think it is normal to come to this point. How many cards can you print without creating unbalanced and gimmicky decks? So... I guess this is the beginning of end for Hearthstone. But until the end, there will be a long agony before all people who play it for the love of skillful plays leave.
Usually TCGs aim to having a handful of viable meta decks, usually around 10-15 of a similar winrate is ideal.
The problem in HS is they absolutely gutted card draw for Paladins, Priests, Shamans and Warriors. So they're all terrible classes. Priests have viability in Res, but that's it. So class diversity is down by a whopping 4 classes. It doesn't help that DH dethroned Hunter as being better at aggro and midrange, either.
They could fix the issue by rotating cards like Crystology back into standard. But Blizzard is terrible at balancing Hearthstone.
Yes that's correct. I think there are many possible improvements, but if they wanted to add them, Blizzard would have to create a new game. First of all, many legendaries are not really so "legendary". Usually it's about most of the classic legendaries. I think it's not a good thing that some legendaries are simply much more powerful than the others. But in my opionion it would be better to simply create a new game - "Hearthstone 2" with new cards and work from 0. Because for now there is simply no way to balance the game. It's not Blizzard's fault - it's normal for all games.
Here is an example of the problem with hearthstones community. Can’t even think logically so just dismisses the entire post as salt. Sad.
Here is a honest opinion from an experienced player, Hearthstone is not fun anymore, and never will be. Sure you will find a bit of fun here and there, for example at the beginning of a new expansion when people are trying out new cool stuff. But then people make some cancer deck thats not fun to play against and everyone is gonna spam it till it gets nerfed. People argue "well thats how card games work", i mean there is always gonna be op decks in a meta, but if got a card game where you end up with 3 broken decks that drain every essence of fun from the game something is wrong. Had tons of friends that used to play HS, guess what? Im the only guy left playing it and im probably gonna stop playing too. Just look at HS on twitch, 90% of streamers are playing battlegrounds, a side mode of the game thats kinda ok, barely anyone plays constructed or arena. The game is dying and rightfully so.
Nope..thats not it. The problem is that we read this topic every two days from a different complainer
When you stated wondering if they expect you to know the secrets, I lost all interest immediately.
This game is very simplistic compared to many other tcgs, but yes there are some facets that you’re expected to actually know. Like the cards, including secrets, the meta, etc.
Secrets aside, what success do you think you’ll have if you try playing knowing only what 20-30% of the standard card pool is? You won’t even know what spells/battlecries to play around. You need to do some due diligence and actually learn what the cards do that are in the format.
Its crazy to me that you even made this point, because learning is a part of ANY video game.
This is a little bit of an over the top rant, but I will agree that it feels pretty rare when a game I play is actually decided by actual gameplay. I would like to see the game figure out a way to build a meta where more decks can actually compete against one another, rather than having most games decided by matchup and draw luck. I just played a casual match, and we were both playing janky stuff (him/her : shaman, me : warlock), and it dragged thru into multiple fatigue turns, with all sorts of bananas twists and turns, and I suddenly remembered for a moment what fun felt like in Hearthstone :)
the number one culprit of making hearthstone into a garbage game is sites like this one and hs replay. there i said it. the information travels to quick and god forbid someone actually took the time and made their own deck. remember when secret paladin was super op back in the day. try playing the same deck today it just doesn't stand up anymore. the game is broken. there is no fixing it and it's not blizzards fault either. it's the spread of information is to quick these days. you wanna make hearthstone a better place to have fun stop posting your decks. even though it's super cool and all that shit just don't. keep it to yourself and just know that you didn't contribute to this garabge. now bring on the salt thread comments fuckin dickheads
not too mention all the streamers and deck trackers. use your own brain fucking scrubs
Umm, yes? It's a competitive card game in a ranked mode. You are absolutely meant to know the secrets your opponent could have played and which ones are currently viable in the meta. The fact that you would think having to learn some aspects of the actual game to get past PLATINUM ranked mode is unreasonable is asinine.
Hearthstone is not a difficult game but having knowledge about the cards and decks currently being played is kind of mandatory if you want to continue progressing in ranked mode. Would you play World of Warcraft and expect to do well in raid content if you didn't know your own classes rotation or the mechanics of the fight?
The game does have issues with balance and the design philosophy that Team5 employs is often inexplicable. There are valid reasons to be annoyed with the state of the game but I think your complaints are aimed at some really unavoidable features of CCG's.
To solve this "unbalance" people are complaining about, or even "death of hearthstone":
Maby stop making more powerful cards, thats what leads to "death of hearthstone". Make more cards, and not more powerful cards just more cards and more features to play around tings. More abilities more cards more brain to use ! But, of course there always going to be someone whining about loosing with their meta deck that was supposed to make thair year!
What are you talking about? Both Galakrond Priest and especially Pirate/Bomb Warrior are doing very well at the moment - but of course, those decks are harder to pilot than say Spell Druid and Highlander Hunter, which might drive down their winrate in lower ranks.
Hearthstone is a great game, in my opinion much better than other card games. The cool thing in hearthstone is that even a meta deck can lose to a regular one. It has it pros and cons, but it has evolved goodly in the last years. Have fun and try to not look to things that make you sad or angry