The new quest shaman has found a solid spot in the meta and I feel calling it quest or battlecry shaman is incorrect. It's a particularly high roll meta at the moment and more I play with and against quest shaman the more I feel this way. I've heard quest shaman is a hard deck to pilot and I think that's partially true. But it's not the whole story.
From the mulligan there are ways to snowball on turn 1. Coin totem into kobold lackey or added health to protect. So a 50/50 sometimes turn 1 to swing the game heavily. Questing explorer is only disgusting in shaman. It's cut or a great turn 2 in other decks but just insane in shaman.
So after the opener the next roll is Fleshshaper. If you play mutate, which tons of decks do, and draw into the combo you can get a Catrina or Octo on turn 3-4 or a 6/3 do nothing card.
Vulpera, Shudder RNG, MCT rolls, but mostly Lackey rolls. It's a casino. Murloc paladin is putting all your chips on one number in roulette. Shaman is a slot machine that gives you two pulls instead of one.
Without knowing what any cards in my opponent's hand are, because they are all discovered, feels like being in a poker game that's played with 8 decks.
So after the opener the next roll is Fleshshaper. If you play mutate, which tons of decks do, and draw into the combo you can get a Catrina or Octo on turn 3-4 or a 6/3 do nothing card.
I'll just go ahead and zero in on this passage as an example of how exaggerated your argument is.
Mutate, when played on a 7-mana minion, is always going to get you an 8-mana minion. This is usually going to be very powerful in the early game. Sometimes you low-roll, yes, but neither player should be surprised when it's the nuts. Even the "6/3 do-nothing" is better than a wounded Fleshshaper, and it probably shouldn't be ignored.
So no, I would not call this a casino play; it's just a pretty consistently good combo. Even if you can't predict the exact result, you can predict that it will be decent or better.
If you have a problem with this play, I'd argue that it's the mana-cheating nature of fleshshaper, not RNG, that is giving you so much grief.
First you need to have both Fleshshapper and mutate to make it work and only feels to have no counterplay when played early. Secondly, it's basically a 33% percent chance to be a no effect less than 6 health minion. So it's inconsistently punishing when you draw the combo. When a roll includes a 1-1 and Tirion I would say it adds to the randomness of shaman at the moment.
First you need to have both Fleshshapper and mutate to make it work
That is what a combo is, though. Like, it's the actual definition of the word.
And the counterplay is to not give the Shaman a big board to discount the fleshshaper.
Again, the problem is the mana-cheating, not the RNG. It's not the fact that you can sometimes get Tirion and sometimes a 1/1. It's the fact that you can get a Tirion at all on Turn 3.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
This isn't a salt thread about shaman or mana cheating. I've won many games with quest shaman, it just doesn't feel like an esports deck. Before the nerfs, hardly anyone brought shaman in gm. It could've potentially done well or looked really bad.
When you see a player like Kolento draw both of his tip the scales before lens and grind out an outstanding victory with murloc paladin it's great for hearthstone. Shaman is just open box after box. You can make a great plan and get a doomsayer off a lackey.
I'm not a fan of rng, obviously besides natural card draw, in literally every turn. It starts to feel dumb to play against or play.
Again, the problem is the mana-cheating, not the RNG. It's not the fact that you can sometimes get Tirion and sometimes a 1/1. It's the fact that you can get a Tirion at all on Turn 3.
Well said. There are certainly better and worse draws, but when you're looking at an average of about 5/7, several of which have really strong persistent/deathrattle effects, it's highly likely that it's gonna be a really strong play.
I remember back in the Spiteful Summoner days when people would always friend me to vent about how lucky I was for rolling a Deathwing or Tyrantus, as if they weren't just gonna get steam-rolled anyways by a turn 6 4/4 + 8/8.
I've played since beta and thought the early rng cards made hearthstone more accessible and fun than mtg, which I played for years. Tinkmaster, brawl, MCT, Rag, Sylvanas, avenging wrath all could be tilting but also were one of few purely coinflip style mechanics. I played tons of arena and still love the format, over 4000 wins. In arena you play around what you can and enjoy the randomness. Watching pros play shaman and either look super frustrated or super happy is not cool in standard.
Burgle/Quest Rogue could join the cassino, get heal spells or get rekt.
It's a straight casino deck no doubt about it. It's also not competitive so people can call it whatever they want. Brought by zero players to gm because it's soooooo random it's purely meme tier. Shaman is tier 1 in every list :l
I do feel like it's Casino Shaman because it works like a slot machine and you never know will it give you two pulls or one. That makes it very interesting because the fact that it depends on you luck makes Shaman very weak and strong at the same moment. Actually I like it, that’s why I also play gambling games to relax. The fact that the result can bring you good money, but you can do nothing and only luck works here is very exciting. But I play just with taruhan Judi Bola not to be fooled by scam sites.
You can roll well with which cards you draw in any deck. Just having some RNG effects doesnt make Quest Shaman a "Casino Deck". It's honestly one of the most predictable decks in the meta.
The new quest shaman has found a solid spot in the meta and I feel calling it quest or battlecry shaman is incorrect. It's a particularly high roll meta at the moment and more I play with and against quest shaman the more I feel this way. I've heard quest shaman is a hard deck to pilot and I think that's partially true. But it's not the whole story.
From the mulligan there are ways to snowball on turn 1. Coin totem into kobold lackey or added health to protect. So a 50/50 sometimes turn 1 to swing the game heavily. Questing explorer is only disgusting in shaman. It's cut or a great turn 2 in other decks but just insane in shaman.
So after the opener the next roll is Fleshshaper. If you play mutate, which tons of decks do, and draw into the combo you can get a Catrina or Octo on turn 3-4 or a 6/3 do nothing card.
Vulpera, Shudder RNG, MCT rolls, but mostly Lackey rolls. It's a casino. Murloc paladin is putting all your chips on one number in roulette. Shaman is a slot machine that gives you two pulls instead of one.
Without knowing what any cards in my opponent's hand are, because they are all discovered, feels like being in a poker game that's played with 8 decks.
Anyone else feel like it's Casino Shaman?
Burgle/Quest Rogue could join the cassino, get heal spells or get rekt.
I'll just go ahead and zero in on this passage as an example of how exaggerated your argument is.
Mutate, when played on a 7-mana minion, is always going to get you an 8-mana minion. This is usually going to be very powerful in the early game. Sometimes you low-roll, yes, but neither player should be surprised when it's the nuts. Even the "6/3 do-nothing" is better than a wounded Fleshshaper, and it probably shouldn't be ignored.
So no, I would not call this a casino play; it's just a pretty consistently good combo. Even if you can't predict the exact result, you can predict that it will be decent or better.
If you have a problem with this play, I'd argue that it's the mana-cheating nature of fleshshaper, not RNG, that is giving you so much grief.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
First you need to have both Fleshshapper and mutate to make it work and only feels to have no counterplay when played early. Secondly, it's basically a 33% percent chance to be a no effect less than 6 health minion. So it's inconsistently punishing when you draw the combo. When a roll includes a 1-1 and Tirion I would say it adds to the randomness of shaman at the moment.
That is what a combo is, though. Like, it's the actual definition of the word.
And the counterplay is to not give the Shaman a big board to discount the fleshshaper.
Again, the problem is the mana-cheating, not the RNG. It's not the fact that you can sometimes get Tirion and sometimes a 1/1. It's the fact that you can get a Tirion at all on Turn 3.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
This isn't a salt thread about shaman or mana cheating. I've won many games with quest shaman, it just doesn't feel like an esports deck. Before the nerfs, hardly anyone brought shaman in gm. It could've potentially done well or looked really bad.
When you see a player like Kolento draw both of his tip the scales before lens and grind out an outstanding victory with murloc paladin it's great for hearthstone. Shaman is just open box after box. You can make a great plan and get a doomsayer off a lackey.
I'm not a fan of rng, obviously besides natural card draw, in literally every turn. It starts to feel dumb to play against or play.
Well said. There are certainly better and worse draws, but when you're looking at an average of about 5/7, several of which have really strong persistent/deathrattle effects, it's highly likely that it's gonna be a really strong play.
I remember back in the Spiteful Summoner days when people would always friend me to vent about how lucky I was for rolling a Deathwing or Tyrantus, as if they weren't just gonna get steam-rolled anyways by a turn 6 4/4 + 8/8.
I have already managed to get duskfallen aviana off a mutate effect twice. And it feels bad when my opponent follows up with a free board clear 😭
On the other hand, I seem to always get Akali off of my Mogu which draws and buffs my other Mogu and that card is also free.
I've played since beta and thought the early rng cards made hearthstone more accessible and fun than mtg, which I played for years. Tinkmaster, brawl, MCT, Rag, Sylvanas, avenging wrath all could be tilting but also were one of few purely coinflip style mechanics. I played tons of arena and still love the format, over 4000 wins. In arena you play around what you can and enjoy the randomness. Watching pros play shaman and either look super frustrated or super happy is not cool in standard.
It's a straight casino deck no doubt about it. It's also not competitive so people can call it whatever they want. Brought by zero players to gm because it's soooooo random it's purely meme tier. Shaman is tier 1 in every list :l
quest shaman is a skill intensive deck and only very good players can pilot the deck correctly
I do feel like it's Casino Shaman because it works like a slot machine and you never know will it give you two pulls or one. That makes it very interesting because the fact that it depends on you luck makes Shaman very weak and strong at the same moment. Actually I like it, that’s why I also play gambling games to relax. The fact that the result can bring you good money, but you can do nothing and only luck works here is very exciting. But I play just with taruhan Judi Bola not to be fooled by scam sites.
this all depends on if you have the exact cards and then if the mutate hits good.
sounds like a luckgrab at the casino to me
I see that you are brand new, but for future reference, it’s not the best idea to comment on threads that ended 6 months ago.
Mage is Casino class now.
Does it matter how you call it?
Tip: No, it doesn't.
You can roll well with which cards you draw in any deck. Just having some RNG effects doesnt make Quest Shaman a "Casino Deck". It's honestly one of the most predictable decks in the meta.
Shaman (and Mage) as a class will always be very much dependant on heavy RNG. It's the classes nature and will most certainly never change.