Hello. Please, explain to me why in every single fckn expansion, theres some deck thats just goes "infinite". It started mainly with a DKs, Dr Boom, Rexxar, cubelock, jades and finally, when i was thinking it will be finally over, theres Elysiana and now Pogo. Tell me, what is wrong with 30 vs 30 cards decks? I actually think that discover is the best keyword in the game, but as a 3 mana 2/2 minion "discover a card". Not with some crap like generating 10 cards or worse. Infinite value and OTK is killing the game for me. This pogo rogue is basically new jades. Yes they dont have plagues and so but meta is different and theres much more to support their concept of near to infinite pogos. Theres more than 3 cards than can shuffle your cards back, or giving it back to your hand without losing much tempo. Im curious, what is so apealing for developers in this "infinite value" mechanics? Am i fckn missing something? Bcs its just repeling for me. Yeah you may counter them with some cripl aggro but they are still more than a viable deck and im seriously curious what is going on here. And i dont want to be forced to play counter decks or lose. Best hearthstone for me is just 30 cards game, you used it all, you lost. You have to think through your deck to have a balance between early, mid and late game. You can focus on one of those parts of the game, but than you will have weak others. Those "jade" decks are just imunne to those rules. Im seriously lost. Someone explain this to me or im simply done with it. Still the same.
I suppose this is their runaway option if they run out of ideas. I find it annoying as well, because the main problem with infinite decks is that it kills entire archetypes usually.
You face pogo rogues a lot? All I see on ladder right now (7-9eu) is aggro decks like mech-hunter, midrange-hunter, mech-paladin and murloc-shaman as well as cc-mage, either dragon or cyclone-build. Meaning you either die turn 6 because a bunch of big as mechs hit your face or you die turn 8 because a bunch of big as giants hit your face. No room for infinite value anywhere to be found.
Slow control decks will always lose to infinite value decks. You will eventually run out of tools to remove all the threats. I may not like this aspect of the game either, but there are 'fair' versions on doing this and unfair ways.
Dead Man's Hand in warrior, I felt was fair because it forced you to shuffle cards back in that you may NOT want to redraw. It also meant that you had to get both Dead Man's Hand in hand and then relevant cards to shuffle back in. Some players also tried to use this to shuffle back in combo pieces back INTO the deck if they drew them for Recruit effects. This was not done to go infinite, but to fix the combo or get value out of recruit cards.
Jade Idol specifically is a card I feel is the unfair way of doing infinite. It requires no forethought, no planning and no punishment for playing it whenever you want. They had to create a card just to counter this card, that's how powerful and annoying it was against control decks. Worse yet, if you had the legendary out, you got both choose effects from the Jade Idol, which made it even more annoying to deal with. Many control decks in Wild still play the 6 drop because there are alot of 1 cost spells in Wild that are good to get rid of.
While I may agree that certain types of infinite seem unfair, you have to ask yourself, what type of deck am I playing and how can I put a card in my deck that can counter that? Since I don't know what decks you play, it's hard to give advice.
But if you are playing aggro or combo, going infinite shouldn't bother you at all. Only playing slow control decks should.
Im curious, what is so apealing for developers in this "infinite value" mechanics? Best hearthstone for me is just 30 cards game, you used it all, you lost.
You pretty much answered your question. They don't like the usual "i ran out of resources, time to concede".
You have to think through your deck to have a balance between early, mid and late game.
Ok, Hearthstone is not meant to be a complicated game. It's meant to be a casual game where you win or lose without the need to think too much. This is something the majority of people should really learn to accept.
"Wah wah wah, my opponent played like a complete idiot while I played like a god and I still lost, not fair!", yeah, deal with it, Hearthstone doesn't care about your 140 IQ.
"But why does Hearthstone have tournaments if it's casual?". The answer is simple: because there are people willing to play it competitively, because there are people willing to watch and because Blizzard gets something in return from organising these tournaments. Anything can be competitive nowadays, even flipping a coin.
Those "jade" decks are just imunne to those rules.
There are no rules in Hearthstone. Anything is possible.
Someone explain this to me or im simply done ith it.
Hope everything is clear for you. Feel free to quit if you're not happy with the game. Don't worry, Blizzard will continue to succeed with or without you.
I agree that "infinite value" mechanics are unhealthy for the game overall. In such environment, usual "fair" control decks just can't exist.
Example - current Control Warrior vs. Control Shaman. Control Shaman just can't compete (or needs some luck to win). Control Warrior can produce infinite threats + removal (mainly from Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - Hero card). Other control decks (classes) just don't have enough tools at all.
Yes, Control Warrior doesn't dominate the meta. But that is mostly because they don't have tools to deal with multiple mid-sized minions. And thank god for that. That is a serious threat for the future in current Standard rotation. Developers have to pay a very close attention to Warrior, otherwise we will have repeat from Jade Druid domination. Because Control Warrior is already very good against most aggro decks (Token Druid, Murloc Shaman, Zoo Warlock).
Side effect is that as the time goes, if Control Warrior gets stronger, there will be more Combo and/or OTK decks in the meta. Remember previous Standard rotation? Yep, there were sooo many Combo/OTK decks that I can't even count them all now. Currently we have maybe only Conjurer Mage and Shirvallah OTK. Looking at recent Blizzard releases, we can expect more late-game tools... so we can be worried for sure.
There is no way Blizzard will turn back from creating more Combo/OTK decks in the future (I think)... but they can at least create some counter cards. Traditional Control decks are in a bad spot today for sure (by "Traditional Control" I mean Control decks without infinite Value and/or infinite Removal).
I think Jade and Pogo are examples of infinite decks that are bad for the game while something like Elysiana is alright since she doesn't always give you good cards, but delays fatigue.
And with people running sub optimal cards it highlights this even further. People actually complain about things like Tess, I can't give any credence to the complaints on this, simply too ignorant of plain reality.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
If you cannot guess the answer, it's because this is a Strategy Card Game, if Blizzard wants to make this as appealing as possible for as many players as possible, they need to provide players with the tools to use as many different Strategies as possible.
Here's the irony: there's one strategy, the infinite resource one, which is so good it beats every other strategy, and yes, OTK counters infinite but as you can see, Blizzard started to give us some hand disruption. Tell me, how long will it take for Infinite Resource strategy to beat OTK as well thanks to hand disruption?
I probably spent 4 or 5k dusts just to try multiple versions of the pogo decks and none of them are that good for climbing, plus games take way too long even when you win. I just like playing rogue so I would craft things like Tak just to play a fun deck. The deck itself isn't good compared to the much cheaper aggro decks like Druid, Hunter and Shaman.
What’s funny about that is how Peter Whalen said before the previous expansion, that they wanna get away from infinite value cards ( like DKs) , and still they printed the 1 mana Rogue scheme...
I guess they will slowly print less anti fatigue cards.
I think you see it everywhere at the moment. Mages play giants for almost free and Conjurer's Calling them (TWICE!!!!!!), huntards play mechs, which create new mechs, which give most other mechs quasi-charge, warriors can discover mechs that that can kill a 14/14 minion for 4 mana, roques can play up to 10 Pogo-Hopper in one turn, shamans play murloc aggro only that they never run out of cards due to Underbelly Angler and druids will just generate wide boards every time until you can't deal with them once.
Neither of the decks are unbeatable but they feel terrible to loose against. I feel like almost every match i play is incredibly on sided, independent of whether i win or lose. In other words the matches feel more pre-determined in their outcome than ever.
Hello. Please, explain to me why in every single fckn expansion, theres some deck thats just goes "infinite". It started mainly with a DKs, Dr Boom, Rexxar, cubelock, jades and finally, when i was thinking it will be finally over, theres Elysiana and now Pogo. Tell me, what is wrong with 30 vs 30 cards decks? I actually think that discover is the best keyword in the game, but as a 3 mana 2/2 minion "discover a card". Not with some crap like generating 10 cards or worse. Infinite value and OTK is killing the game for me. This pogo rogue is basically new jades. Yes they dont have plagues and so but meta is different and theres much more to support their concept of near to infinite pogos. Theres more than 3 cards than can shuffle your cards back, or giving it back to your hand without losing much tempo. Im curious, what is so apealing for developers in this "infinite value" mechanics? Am i fckn missing something? Bcs its just repeling for me. Yeah you may counter them with some cripl aggro but they are still more than a viable deck and im seriously curious what is going on here. And i dont want to be forced to play counter decks or lose. Best hearthstone for me is just 30 cards game, you used it all, you lost. You have to think through your deck to have a balance between early, mid and late game. You can focus on one of those parts of the game, but than you will have weak others. Those "jade" decks are just imunne to those rules. Im seriously lost. Someone explain this to me or im simply done with it. Still the same.
I agree on everything.
The only solution is to force yourself to play heavy aggro decks so they will ragequit and never play the deck again.
I suppose this is their runaway option if they run out of ideas. I find it annoying as well, because the main problem with infinite decks is that it kills entire archetypes usually.
Because not everyone has fun the same way as you, and some people enjoy those types of decks.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
You face pogo rogues a lot? All I see on ladder right now (7-9eu) is aggro decks like mech-hunter, midrange-hunter, mech-paladin and murloc-shaman as well as cc-mage, either dragon or cyclone-build. Meaning you either die turn 6 because a bunch of big as mechs hit your face or you die turn 8 because a bunch of big as giants hit your face. No room for infinite value anywhere to be found.
Sounds like OP plays control warrior.
Slow control decks will always lose to infinite value decks. You will eventually run out of tools to remove all the threats. I may not like this aspect of the game either, but there are 'fair' versions on doing this and unfair ways.
Dead Man's Hand in warrior, I felt was fair because it forced you to shuffle cards back in that you may NOT want to redraw. It also meant that you had to get both Dead Man's Hand in hand and then relevant cards to shuffle back in. Some players also tried to use this to shuffle back in combo pieces back INTO the deck if they drew them for Recruit effects. This was not done to go infinite, but to fix the combo or get value out of recruit cards.
Jade Idol specifically is a card I feel is the unfair way of doing infinite. It requires no forethought, no planning and no punishment for playing it whenever you want. They had to create a card just to counter this card, that's how powerful and annoying it was against control decks. Worse yet, if you had the legendary out, you got both choose effects from the Jade Idol, which made it even more annoying to deal with. Many control decks in Wild still play the 6 drop because there are alot of 1 cost spells in Wild that are good to get rid of.
While I may agree that certain types of infinite seem unfair, you have to ask yourself, what type of deck am I playing and how can I put a card in my deck that can counter that? Since I don't know what decks you play, it's hard to give advice.
But if you are playing aggro or combo, going infinite shouldn't bother you at all. Only playing slow control decks should.
You pretty much answered your question. They don't like the usual "i ran out of resources, time to concede".
Ok, Hearthstone is not meant to be a complicated game. It's meant to be a casual game where you win or lose without the need to think too much. This is something the majority of people should really learn to accept.
"Wah wah wah, my opponent played like a complete idiot while I played like a god and I still lost, not fair!", yeah, deal with it, Hearthstone doesn't care about your 140 IQ.
"But why does Hearthstone have tournaments if it's casual?". The answer is simple: because there are people willing to play it competitively, because there are people willing to watch and because Blizzard gets something in return from organising these tournaments. Anything can be competitive nowadays, even flipping a coin.
There are no rules in Hearthstone. Anything is possible.
Hope everything is clear for you. Feel free to quit if you're not happy with the game. Don't worry, Blizzard will continue to succeed with or without you.
I agree that "infinite value" mechanics are unhealthy for the game overall. In such environment, usual "fair" control decks just can't exist.
Example - current Control Warrior vs. Control Shaman. Control Shaman just can't compete (or needs some luck to win). Control Warrior can produce infinite threats + removal (mainly from Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - Hero card). Other control decks (classes) just don't have enough tools at all.
Yes, Control Warrior doesn't dominate the meta. But that is mostly because they don't have tools to deal with multiple mid-sized minions. And thank god for that. That is a serious threat for the future in current Standard rotation. Developers have to pay a very close attention to Warrior, otherwise we will have repeat from Jade Druid domination. Because Control Warrior is already very good against most aggro decks (Token Druid, Murloc Shaman, Zoo Warlock).
Side effect is that as the time goes, if Control Warrior gets stronger, there will be more Combo and/or OTK decks in the meta. Remember previous Standard rotation? Yep, there were sooo many Combo/OTK decks that I can't even count them all now. Currently we have maybe only Conjurer Mage and Shirvallah OTK. Looking at recent Blizzard releases, we can expect more late-game tools... so we can be worried for sure.
There is no way Blizzard will turn back from creating more Combo/OTK decks in the future (I think)... but they can at least create some counter cards. Traditional Control decks are in a bad spot today for sure (by "Traditional Control" I mean Control decks without infinite Value and/or infinite Removal).
How are cubelock, Elysiana and pogo rogue infinite? Do you know what infinite means?
I think Jade and Pogo are examples of infinite decks that are bad for the game while something like Elysiana is alright since she doesn't always give you good cards, but delays fatigue.
pogo rogue isnt even good
And with people running sub optimal cards it highlights this even further. People actually complain about things like Tess, I can't give any credence to the complaints on this, simply too ignorant of plain reality.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Found the control warrior.
As paper I think scissors is OP. And I refuse to play rock like a newb!
Seriously, the best Pogo deck's win rate is hovering right at 50 percent. It's slow and silly, and there are many archetypes that can beat it.
Such heavy weather over a meme deck!
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Here's the irony: there's one strategy, the infinite resource one, which is so good it beats every other strategy, and yes, OTK counters infinite but as you can see, Blizzard started to give us some hand disruption. Tell me, how long will it take for Infinite Resource strategy to beat OTK as well thanks to hand disruption?
I dont see any problem here. Even more, it is a must for a game to have these kind of cards/decks.
The parent of HS - paper MtG has it, and it is very good that we have to not only go face on curve.
Rich diversity is exellent.
I probably spent 4 or 5k dusts just to try multiple versions of the pogo decks and none of them are that good for climbing, plus games take way too long even when you win. I just like playing rogue so I would craft things like Tak just to play a fun deck. The deck itself isn't good compared to the much cheaper aggro decks like Druid, Hunter and Shaman.
What’s funny about that is how Peter Whalen said before the previous expansion, that they wanna get away from infinite value cards ( like DKs) , and still they printed the 1 mana Rogue scheme...
I guess they will slowly print less anti fatigue cards.
I think you see it everywhere at the moment. Mages play giants for almost free and Conjurer's Calling them (TWICE!!!!!!), huntards play mechs, which create new mechs, which give most other mechs quasi-charge, warriors can discover mechs that that can kill a 14/14 minion for 4 mana, roques can play up to 10 Pogo-Hopper in one turn, shamans play murloc aggro only that they never run out of cards due to Underbelly Angler and druids will just generate wide boards every time until you can't deal with them once.
Neither of the decks are unbeatable but they feel terrible to loose against. I feel like almost every match i play is incredibly on sided, independent of whether i win or lose. In other words the matches feel more pre-determined in their outcome than ever.
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