Netdecking, streamers, export, forums and any type of decks propaganda is bad for the game
Imagine a HS where the most performing decks weren’t all listed for everyone to copy and the way up was experimenting on and on
yes you could take idea from an opponent list but you’d see so many innovative creations and whoever manages the strong deck should keep it to himself and just carry on with it for its own benefit as well
like this it’s boring after 5 weeks as the meta gets figured out too quickly and the funny thing is that recently they implemented this new auto complete feature so the spoilers come from an in-built game tool. Cool
... whoever manages the strong deck should keep it to himself and just carry on with it for its own benefit as well...
This simply would not happen, even with no internet lists. Good decks would still spread as fast as that card back did. It's not like I need a list to make mid hunter or zoo.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
... whoever manages the strong deck should keep it to himself and just carry on with it for its own benefit as well...
This simply would not happen, even with no internet lists. Good decks would still spread as fast as that card back did. It's not like I need a list to make mid hunter or zoo.
I know but making “ a zoo “ is still different from having the “ most performing zoo” which adds on a ton of winrate to it
when new expansion came out day one I made a token Druid as I could see potential being there with the RoS implementations and didn’t work out really well.. and that list I did was at least 70% similar to the 55% win rate ultimate token Druid list out there now
As well as these many arguments above, there are also other two reasons, as you are posting in a Standard format Forum:
1 - This is the beginning of the Standard year, so there are only 4 expansions available, limiting the card pool.
2 - The previous meta was full of Rogues and Warriors, then people where just trying to beat each other with those two decks
Anyway, this is why I almost only play wild right now. I stay at rank 10-15 and play casual. I find LOTS of original ideas, though, as stated above, in order to create a competitive and homebrew, you'll need a lot of dust and time to refine it, which are things not everyone has
Another option is to go on friendly matches to chill.
Hydrocephalic baby can pilot and not have fun for days! Those decks deserve new names like Deadhandmage, Bullshithunter or Mechdumber, Trashlock, Vomit Shaman, NojobWarrior, NobrainsRogue, IdioticDruid and Noideapriest.
Maybe it would be fun if Blizz recognized you are using an original deck and gives you some bonus for it...like 1 extra health on your hero or something, or even only a nice interface change. Then it would be more rewarding to be original.
Another way to force deck change is for instance to demand you may not queue the same deck more than 5 times in a row or something like that. Or a general rule that on each server warrior decks may only be played x times a day max (by the whole population), and for each armor-up you use you will lose 2 health on you hero in your next game.
Or if you queue a tier-1 deck into a tier-2 deck the tier-2 deck will get an extra coin at start. All kinds of interesting ways to stimulate the variance of decks.
Another idea: turn each match into a best of 3: one game with your own deck, one with the other deck while he plays yours, and one decider if needed with...a random deck!
Maybe it would be fun if Blizz recognized you are using an original deck and gives you some bonus for it...like 1 extra health on your hero or something, or even only a nice interface change. Then it would be more rewarding to be original.
Another way to force deck change is for instance to demand you may not queue the same deck more than 5 times in a row or something like that. Or a general rule that on each server warrior decks may only be played x times a day max (by the whole population), and for each armor-up you use you will lose 2 health on you hero in your next game.
Or if you queue a tier-1 deck into a tier-2 deck the tier-2 deck will get an extra coin at start. All kinds of interesting ways to stimulate the variance of decks.
First of all, you've got a bunch of folks screaming about the "pay to win" nature of this game, so the whole not-being-able-to-queue-same-deck thing would exacerbate the problems with free to play styles.
All of these other ideas are just weird. Why are you wanting to punish folks for playing optimal decks?
This concept reminds me of veganism on YouTube. People can't be content with doing something they want to do for whatever reason (like playing original decks); they can only be content by punishing others who don't find the same satisfaction in the same thing.
Personally, I'm trying to qualify for GM league, which means at any given moment I'll never be more than 5 cards away from a tier 1 deck. You can't have the tournament scene held up as something important and also do this punishment concept. One would have to give.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Hydrocephalic baby can pilot and not have fun for days! Those decks deserve new names like Deadhandmage, Bullshithunter or Mechdumber, Trashlock, Vomit Shaman, NojobWarrior, NobrainsRogue, IdioticDruid and Noideapriest.
Success by competition doesn't reward being original: it rewards being successfully.
So we don't care if some hipsters need to despise netdecking in order to feel relevant: the game is built around success, and success only.
Kudos for being successful AND original, ofc. But nobody cares if you're not original, as long as you are successful. And nobody cares if you are original but unsuccessful.
If you want to get out of boredom, YOU must try and be original with homebrews. Boredom is a state of yours, independent of what your opponents do (in a healthy meta ofc, without toxic decks).
If you are good at homebrewing, you have no reason to complain of others, because you make your own fun with your creativity.
So, do you want originality? Move your back, and get to homebrewing! Too lazy? Too hard? It's your choice. But you cannot complain of others, because you are not entitled to have expectations on them.
PS: originality needs to be rare. We can't all be constantly original, by definition.
Well this is interesting...there is no optimal deck, there are only decks that perform well according to statistics. Most of the time, a good player will introduce an interesting deck, performs well with it (because he is a good player), and suddenly everybody is using it and it becomes a tier-2/tier-1 deck. There might be better decks out there no-one has tried, and this is a pity. You can see that at the start of an expansion, like now, first it was all rogue and war, rogue took a nerf, now everyone is running to mage since that one performed well against the warrior.
Since all are playing mage, the mage deck evolves to tech against other mages (no weapon removal anymore, no we need frost nova now).
And in this way the meta reacts and changes all the time, so there exists no optimal deck, since your deck can only be optimal against another one, and optimal in this sense only means "have a better winrate". But since these winrates are about historic events and not about future/current events, they do no guarantee anything in a meta that keeps changing, and I think blizz is already making sure it keeps changing by nerfing and soon also buffing cards.
I can have fun with good netdecks but honestly I have more fun with my own creations if I win ofc. For instance I have an interesting mage deck trying to get the star aligner combo. Have a bad winrate with it but its so much fun when it works...and it outvalues the warrior :).
Deckbuilding in time consuming process, that require time and effort. Not all do like it and have these resources.
Also keep in mind that for competetive game less people do prefer to take low win rated homebrew things, and it is understandable. You need to win and need to take several wins fast, coz of real life need most attention.
As for a casual game it is more common to grab random top-rated deck and go couple games.
As for me - time to time (once a year maybe) i used to play 30 legs decks in casual, other than that only themed decks to complete quests. And do appreciate fun and unusual deck found here, even if they are kinda lower WR.
And as a final note on this topic: it is much more enjoyable to lose against a new inspired interesting deck than to lose against the same netdeck everyone is playing. So if we all play original decks we all have a much more fun experience overall. Note that I am not telling people to do this or that, everyone is free to do what he/she wants :).
Probably this was the idea of casual. However casual is also used by people learning to play the netdeck who are afraid of losing with it while they are still learning to play it optimally.
As an aspiring pro player your goal is different, you do not care about anything else but winning as much games as possible. However, I think you will become a better player if you experiment with different decks and learn to learn from your losses, since they can make you a better player. If you always play the same deck which you have nailed to perfection you will have a problem after a meta-change (nerf, new cards etc).
If your original deck can't stand up against the top meta decks, then your "original idea" is just bad. If it can stand up to those decks, then why are you complaining?
I joined a competition once, this was during the Inspire expansion. My decks were all original decks I've made from scratch, and used some cards you'd rarely meet in their class ( even had a Coldlight Oracle in priest ). These were mainly control decks as I love long games. These would be decks that got me to rank 5. I did manage to beat one opponent, because he was playing a slow control deck. Next opponent, got destroyed by aggro and possibly bad luck. Decks that are experimented a lot on, are sure to work - others, possibly not so much.
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I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night, I am batma I build computer games. Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
i think the reason mtg doesn't suffer from this problem (granted i haven't play mtg arena so this isn't a fully informed opinion), i think the creativity in card games comes from playing with local people. when i play with my friends, we switch up our decks and even if a deck is stupidly good, it doesn't bother us since no one has meta decks that cost hundreds upon hundreds on dollars.
throw on the fact that real cards can't be crafted with dust. you buy packs or singles and use what you can. that aspect forces you to think outside the box. i find hearthstone funny but just never fun enough to keep my attention for more than a few weeks. i DID get that feeling when playing local tournament mtg but thats because most people (and those who consistently won) were bringing decks that could kill you on turn 2 with an infinite combo.
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Netdecking, streamers, export, forums and any type of decks propaganda is bad for the game
Imagine a HS where the most performing decks weren’t all listed for everyone to copy and the way up was experimenting on and on
yes you could take idea from an opponent list but you’d see so many innovative creations and whoever manages the strong deck should keep it to himself and just carry on with it for its own benefit as well
like this it’s boring after 5 weeks as the meta gets figured out too quickly and the funny thing is that recently they implemented this new auto complete feature so the spoilers come from an in-built game tool. Cool
This simply would not happen, even with no internet lists. Good decks would still spread as fast as that card back did. It's not like I need a list to make mid hunter or zoo.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I know but making “ a zoo “ is still different from having the “ most performing zoo” which adds on a ton of winrate to it
when new expansion came out day one I made a token Druid as I could see potential being there with the RoS implementations and didn’t work out really well.. and that list I did was at least 70% similar to the 55% win rate ultimate token Druid list out there now
so..
As well as these many arguments above, there are also other two reasons, as you are posting in a Standard format Forum:
1 - This is the beginning of the Standard year, so there are only 4 expansions available, limiting the card pool.
2 - The previous meta was full of Rogues and Warriors, then people where just trying to beat each other with those two decks
Anyway, this is why I almost only play wild right now. I stay at rank 10-15 and play casual. I find LOTS of original ideas, though, as stated above, in order to create a competitive and homebrew, you'll need a lot of dust and time to refine it, which are things not everyone has
Another option is to go on friendly matches to chill.
.
This isn't the salt thread.
That's over here --> https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty
Oh and also... Grow up, will you?
Maybe it would be fun if Blizz recognized you are using an original deck and gives you some bonus for it...like 1 extra health on your hero or something, or even only a nice interface change. Then it would be more rewarding to be original.
Another way to force deck change is for instance to demand you may not queue the same deck more than 5 times in a row or something like that. Or a general rule that on each server warrior decks may only be played x times a day max (by the whole population), and for each armor-up you use you will lose 2 health on you hero in your next game.
Or if you queue a tier-1 deck into a tier-2 deck the tier-2 deck will get an extra coin at start. All kinds of interesting ways to stimulate the variance of decks.
Another idea: turn each match into a best of 3: one game with your own deck, one with the other deck while he plays yours, and one decider if needed with...a random deck!
First of all, you've got a bunch of folks screaming about the "pay to win" nature of this game, so the whole not-being-able-to-queue-same-deck thing would exacerbate the problems with free to play styles.
All of these other ideas are just weird. Why are you wanting to punish folks for playing optimal decks?
This concept reminds me of veganism on YouTube. People can't be content with doing something they want to do for whatever reason (like playing original decks); they can only be content by punishing others who don't find the same satisfaction in the same thing.
Personally, I'm trying to qualify for GM league, which means at any given moment I'll never be more than 5 cards away from a tier 1 deck. You can't have the tournament scene held up as something important and also do this punishment concept. One would have to give.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
nvm
You forgot the IDon;tKnowShirvalladin.
Honestly that’s why I play a lot of arena you never play against the same deck and your deck changes each run
Success by competition doesn't reward being original: it rewards being successfully.
So we don't care if some hipsters need to despise netdecking in order to feel relevant: the game is built around success, and success only.
Kudos for being successful AND original, ofc.
But nobody cares if you're not original, as long as you are successful.
And nobody cares if you are original but unsuccessful.
If you want to get out of boredom, YOU must try and be original with homebrews. Boredom is a state of yours, independent of what your opponents do (in a healthy meta ofc, without toxic decks).
If you are good at homebrewing, you have no reason to complain of others, because you make your own fun with your creativity.
So, do you want originality? Move your back, and get to homebrewing! Too lazy? Too hard? It's your choice. But you cannot complain of others, because you are not entitled to have expectations on them.
PS: originality needs to be rare. We can't all be constantly original, by definition.
Well this is interesting...there is no optimal deck, there are only decks that perform well according to statistics. Most of the time, a good player will introduce an interesting deck, performs well with it (because he is a good player), and suddenly everybody is using it and it becomes a tier-2/tier-1 deck. There might be better decks out there no-one has tried, and this is a pity. You can see that at the start of an expansion, like now, first it was all rogue and war, rogue took a nerf, now everyone is running to mage since that one performed well against the warrior.
Since all are playing mage, the mage deck evolves to tech against other mages (no weapon removal anymore, no we need frost nova now).
And in this way the meta reacts and changes all the time, so there exists no optimal deck, since your deck can only be optimal against another one, and optimal in this sense only means "have a better winrate". But since these winrates are about historic events and not about future/current events, they do no guarantee anything in a meta that keeps changing, and I think blizz is already making sure it keeps changing by nerfing and soon also buffing cards.
I can have fun with good netdecks but honestly I have more fun with my own creations if I win ofc. For instance I have an interesting mage deck trying to get the star aligner combo. Have a bad winrate with it but its so much fun when it works...and it outvalues the warrior :).
Deckbuilding in time consuming process, that require time and effort. Not all do like it and have these resources.
Also keep in mind that for competetive game less people do prefer to take low win rated homebrew things, and it is understandable. You need to win and need to take several wins fast, coz of real life need most attention.
As for a casual game it is more common to grab random top-rated deck and go couple games.
As for me - time to time (once a year maybe) i used to play 30 legs decks in casual, other than that only themed decks to complete quests. And do appreciate fun and unusual deck found here, even if they are kinda lower WR.
Thanks for attention:D
And as a final note on this topic: it is much more enjoyable to lose against a new inspired interesting deck than to lose against the same netdeck everyone is playing. So if we all play original decks we all have a much more fun experience overall. Note that I am not telling people to do this or that, everyone is free to do what he/she wants :).
Probably this was the idea of casual. However casual is also used by people learning to play the netdeck who are afraid of losing with it while they are still learning to play it optimally.
As an aspiring pro player your goal is different, you do not care about anything else but winning as much games as possible. However, I think you will become a better player if you experiment with different decks and learn to learn from your losses, since they can make you a better player. If you always play the same deck which you have nailed to perfection you will have a problem after a meta-change (nerf, new cards etc).
I am curios, are there people on chess forums that complain that nearly no one plays original debuts and make good moves against their opening a2-a4?
If your original deck can't stand up against the top meta decks, then your "original idea" is just bad. If it can stand up to those decks, then why are you complaining?
I joined a competition once, this was during the Inspire expansion. My decks were all original decks I've made from scratch, and used some cards you'd rarely meet in their class ( even had a Coldlight Oracle in priest ). These were mainly control decks as I love long games.
These would be decks that got me to rank 5. I did manage to beat one opponent, because he was playing a slow control deck. Next opponent, got destroyed by aggro and possibly bad luck.
Decks that are experimented a lot on, are sure to work - others, possibly not so much.
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night,
I am batmaI build computer games.Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
i think the reason mtg doesn't suffer from this problem (granted i haven't play mtg arena so this isn't a fully informed opinion), i think the creativity in card games comes from playing with local people. when i play with my friends, we switch up our decks and even if a deck is stupidly good, it doesn't bother us since no one has meta decks that cost hundreds upon hundreds on dollars.
throw on the fact that real cards can't be crafted with dust. you buy packs or singles and use what you can. that aspect forces you to think outside the box. i find hearthstone funny but just never fun enough to keep my attention for more than a few weeks. i DID get that feeling when playing local tournament mtg but thats because most people (and those who consistently won) were bringing decks that could kill you on turn 2 with an infinite combo.