So the problem for Rogue is deeper than just "Waggle Pick" or 3 Mana draw 2 pirates and a weapon. The problem is much deeper and even beyond the basic and classic set but we can start there.
Preperation - How this card is still in the form it is, shocks me deeply. 0 Mana and get as much as a 3 mana discount on a spell is a broken effect. 0 Mana spells have to be incredibly careful as they can go from balanced to broken in a hurry and this one hasn't been balanced in a long time. If Innervate, Wild Growth, Nourish AND Naturalize were all nerfed or hall of famed. How is there "Any" legitimate explanation as to why this card has not been in the same conversation. Especially since a "Tempo Rogue/Miracle Rogue" pops up in almost every meta in some fashion and is always decent due to the broken cards in the classic/basic set (Fix - 1 Mana and 2 Mana discount: This would at least allow the card to remain playable while actually being balanced somewhat though still could be broken at the nerfed state too!)
Raiding Party - 3 Mana Combo card where you get to draw 2 Pirates and a weapon. Now there is another card involved here that is a problem but it's more than what it seems. With the sheer glut of 0 mana cards that Rogues play. This is very often a 3 Mana play on turn 3 or 4 and sometimes is a 0 Mana Tutor 3 cards. (Fix - 1 Pirate and Combo to 1 Weapon: Drawing 3 cards for 3 mana is "Never" balanced. Nourish cost 5 and it got nerfed)
Waggle Pick - 4 mana 4/2 weapon with Shadowstep effect on a random minion. It's not incredibly hard to target what minion you want to bounce and with Deadly Poisons as well as Captain Greenskin. This card has gotten out of control and I'm not sure again why the developers decided that a high attack weapon in a deck which often plays on Tempo was a good idea. It moved Tempo Rogue from Tempo to more of the old Pirate Warrior/Face Warrior gameplan of punch your opponent in the face alot with the weapon. "Many" players simply ignore your board completely and throw random spells at face just to pump out damage to try and "Get there" (Fix - 4 mana 3/2 weapon with a discount of 1 on the bounced card not 2)
Shadowstep - Another argument here as this again allows for broken combinations and has been a criminal in Rogue for a long time of being an unbalanced card. It's another of these basic/classic set cards that should've been considered for nerf a long time ago as it again allows for broken things in the class and game over and over. It limits design space because of how it allows OTK potential. (Fix - Reduce mana reduction from 2 to 1)
Dread Corsair - This one is fairly simple honestly and I don't understand why the mana reduction for it is a thing to begin with (Fix - Reduce to costing 3 mana, remove mana reduction ability)
Developers - This is where the conversation/discussion will get me some flak but I feel this is warranted at this point. I've felt for a long time that Rogue for whatever reason is the "Golden Boy" class in Hearthstone because over "Years" the Developers have not Hall of Famed or nerfed cards like Prep, Shadowstep, Sap, Backstab and more. The only nerf the class has ever gotten is "Conceal" which in the grand scheme of things is pretty weak sauce comparing to other nerfs/Hall of Fames. There's another thread for another time pointing out all the classes that have gotten hozed the worst through the HOF process but I promise you that Rogue is at the bottom of that list, not the top.
There needs to be fairness across all the classes in the basic/standard set and favoring one class over the other eight is something that allows an expansion of good to broken cards to be printed. In the last two expansions Rogue received: Vendetta (Broken but on a lesser level), Waggle Pick (Broken), Raiding Party (Broken hugely), EVIL Miscreant (Broken but not as bad as above yet), Heistbaron Togwaggle (Broken but doesnt make the cut for being broken enough). As well as a variety of "Really good" but not busted cards.
Significant players and streamers are leaving Hearthstone in large numbers for other games due to a meta which has been unable to be balanced for well over a year now by this team. Between the horrific 2018 meta of Odd/Even and OTK and now Tempo Rogue all day every day. (I played 100 games for instead with Control Warrior and wound up with a 44% playrate against Rogue.) There needs to be some significant introspection and legitimate balance discussion on this team because they are quickly allowing the game to fall into a place where it might not recover from. I don't like calling out developers because they of course work very hard and try their best. At the end of the day though i'm not paid to do the job, they are. If they are not doing the job to a point where people are leaving your game in droves. (As shown by Dean Ayala late last year/early this year asking players what would it take for them to come back) is a horrible sign and showcases the problems.
(Fix - Either take a real look at the actual problem cards in your game and address them because there's even more than just these. These are just in ONE CLASS which has been Preserved to this point by the team and not targetted even though it should've been several times over by now. If not that, bring in a team that can take a neutral look at things and actually address the problems that "Do" exist. Because right now Hearthstone is trending down, not up. Another year like 2018 and it will not just be a valley in the game's life but will begin to be it's future path.
Just don't come and tell us that Rogue has been "preserved" and is "the only class" that has "never been targeted" by the devs. Because it's not just false, it's Bullsh1t entirely.
Sick and tired of this policy of providing classes with out-of-place cards just to build an excuse to destroy the class entirely, supported by short-sighted users as the OP.
the main problem I have with the rogue class is that I feel like it has very strict rules which limit the design space and only allow the class to play tempo/aggro decks.
rogue's dont have any heal, taunts, or board wipes. I know all classes have a certain restrictions to keep the flavor, but those rules can be ignored at times. hunter, for example was never had a lot of draw, but then we got deathstalker rexxar, and masters call. druid was never a armoring class, but then with KaC, they got tons of armor.
but rogue is kept inside of a tiny box, so that the rogue today feels the exact same as rogue 2 years ago.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I agree, I am tired of facing some iteration of tempo rogue every single expansion. All the points regarding to the cards you made make sense to me. Maybe the problem goes deeper than that and lids actually within the basic and classic set that never rotates? I don't know.
I also don't really know nor care about if significant numbers of players and streamers are leaving the game or if developers really "love" rogue that much (maybe it's because a lot of players seem to love rogue since it usually allows for fairly cheap decks with which people can easily climb the ladder).
I think mentioning developers and players leaving steers the focus away from the actual point, the problem with rogue as a class. But hey that's just my point of view.
Nerfs may provide a temporary solution, but other OP decks will emerge after the nerfs(zoo warlock going off the charts maybe? ) and new nerfs will be requested.
The main problem that ever card game is facing is that people are netdeckers which kind of makes sense since most have the dust for 1-2 archetypes and they pick 1-2 more dominant on ladder. I would like to have a "playrate limit" introduced from Blizzard. It may sound like a lame idea but just checking what class you are playing in your account is not that hard code-wise , in comparison with the implementation of tournament mode for example. So, a 10-consecutive-games-limit with one class or sth similar, would cause people to play something different. For example imagine the ladder if anyone climbing was forced to play only 10 games a day with an OP class, then having to change due to this class being kinda of banned for the rest of the day. Again, it may sound lame, but I think it would bring more variety on ladder(though people will complain about not playing their favorite class ALL the time, and some like Apxvoid would insta-quit the game :P )
Why do these forums call for nerfs so often? I can't answer that for everyone, but the times that I join those conversations, its usually because the perceived or actual power of a card is impacting the fun experience of many players. That does not necessarily mean we need to nerf or HOF cards because its powerful, but there needs to be some sort of standard criteria in order to apply to cards.
I think all of the nerf talks are silly after awhile, but not because the talks are unneccessary, but because we don't have standard rules that apply. Sometimes cards get nerfed because its 'unfun' to play against. Other times its in 'every single deck of that class'. And even other times, they get nerfed and no one knows exactly why as the card wasn't an issue that the numbers supported.
So I think the real talk should be focused on setting rules of standards so that if a card fits those rules, then they can get the 'nerf' talks. Instead of talking about how powerful cards are, we should be focusing on setting up guidelines of what qualifies a card for nerfs or HOF. These standards need to be applied and setup by the Blizzard team. They need to be enforced evenly across the board and they need to be done so that players understand the reasons behind it.
It feels like these forums call for nerfs because the rules are chaotic and random at best. The rules get applied haphazardly and don't seem to have consistent rules or guidelines. I will give a few examples...
Druid. It was claimed that Wild Growth and Nourish were in too many decks and that many of the Druid cards meant that most Druid decks looked exactly the same except for a few cards to swap out win conditions. If this were applied universally, then we would also have to look at Wrath and Swipe, which has also been in almost every Druid deck. Even Token Druid plays both of these cards. Every control deck and combo deck played these cards with a few exceptions.
So the fans of Wild Growth get mad when you try to explain that it was in every Druid deck. Meanwhile there are other cards that ALSO fits these rules and does not seem like a consistent rule set.
Warrior. Execute and Fiery War Axe. Considered way too efficient removal for the cost, so they increased the cost of both by 1. They were also in every single Warrior deck ever made, both Aggro and Control. Fiery War Axe has dropped off the radar, because it's terrible at 3 mana, but look at every single control deck now? Execute is STILL in every single control deck. And they have even more removal in the class, like Shield Slam. And then other classes get better weapons at lower or similar mana costs. I thought warrior was the main weapon class? They get a 4 mana 3/2 weapon, while Rogue gets a 4/2 4 mana weapon that discounts a minion for later tempo plays. Shaman gets an overload weapon that can be a 3/3 weapon for 2 mana.
So as I see things, I think players and those on these forums see how these rules are not applied evenly and are seemingly random. They feel like well if X got nerfed before, why not this card that has similar properties? Those are valid questions and reasons for wanting to nerf cards, but the problem is not that a card is powerful or unfun, it's that the rules setup by Blizzard and the dev team are not applied fairly and evenly across all classes and cards.
The diverse calls for nerfs after this expansion actually shows a decent amount of balance. Off the top of my head, I've seen complaints about Bomb Warrior, Control Warrior, Khagar Mage, Shaman Murloc, Token Druid, and this general rant against rogues. There have probably been threads about Mech Hunter, but I haven't read any. (I definitely don't read every thread in the forums)
Apparently, many think Warlock is overpowered in the Arena.
Seems like the hate is getting spread around to a lot of classes. Maybe it's time to stop and recognize that the devs did a pretty good job this time.
Crybaby comments while adorable are also not productive and do not defend or attack any point. Just adds nothing.
I understand where people see others asking for nerfs all the time and it's too often used but my point about Rogue never being targetted is fairly accurate. As mentioned that Conceal was the only card to be nerfed or HOF'd from the Rogue class "Ever" I believe. Most of the cards mentioned are "enhanced" because of the existance of Preperation. It is the biggest offender of all the cards in the class and needs work the most. It allows for broken turns where Rogue can play 5-6-7 cards on turns with less than 10 mana. Anything with mana reduction has always been between a spectrum of powerful to utterly broken.
Emperor Thaurissan would've been nerfed if he hadn't been part of the first standard rotation because he allowed for broken combos.
Innervate - (Not mana reduction but it used to give you mana for 0 mana cost. Now it's halved and still has seen some scattered play)
Wild Growth - (Mana Ramp and eventually nerfed because of how much play it saw no matter what)
Nourish - (See Above and repeat)
Most cards with a mana reduction or mana ramp are going to be broken and Rogue does it across too many cards, "By" too much. If Shadowstep and Waggle Pick was 1 mana reduction it would be a significant difference though I still think Waggle needs to be weaker damage wise.
I didn't even approach Sap which I think fits the Wild Growth/Nourish comparison more than anything since it's been in every Rogue deck in the history of Hearthstone, BUT it's not the issue at the moment. There are plenty of ways for a "Tempo Rogue" to exist where the design space isn't so completely limited and still be cheap. It involves cards like Preperation taking a significant nerf or HOF though because they allow "Too" much. Just see Myra's with Prep for a 2 mana draw 9 cards play to know how silly the card can be.
Crybaby comments while adorable are also not productive and do not defend or attack any point. Just adds nothing.
I understand where people see others asking for nerfs all the time and it's too often used but my point about Rogue never being targetted is fairly accurate. As mentioned that Conceal was the only card to be nerfed or HOF'd from the Rogue class "Ever" I believe. Most of the cards mentioned are "enhanced" because of the existance of Preperation. It is the biggest offender of all the cards in the class and needs work the most. It allows for broken turns where Rogue can play 5-6-7 cards on turns with less than 10 mana. Anything with mana reduction has always been between a spectrum of powerful to utterly broken.
Emperor Thaurissan would've been nerfed if he hadn't been part of the first standard rotation because he allowed for broken combos.
Innervate - (Not mana reduction but it used to give you mana for 0 mana cost. Now it's halved and still has seen some scattered play)
Wild Growth - (Mana Ramp and eventually nerfed because of how much play it saw no matter what)
Nourish - (See Above and repeat)
Most cards with a mana reduction or mana ramp are going to be broken and Rogue does it across too many cards, "By" too much. If Shadowstep and Waggle Pick was 1 mana reduction it would be a significant difference though I still think Waggle needs to be weaker damage wise.
I didn't even approach Sap which I think fits the Wild Growth/Nourish comparison more than anything since it's been in every Rogue deck in the history of Hearthstone, BUT it's not the issue at the moment. There are plenty of ways for a "Tempo Rogue" to exist where the design space isn't so completely limited and still be cheap. It involves cards like Preperation taking a significant nerf or HOF though because they allow "Too" much. Just see Myra's with Prep for a 2 mana draw 9 cards play to know how silly the card can be.
Wasn't cold blood and blade flurry nerfed? Or do those not count?
I absolutely despise shadowstep but they will never remove this card.
Since Kingsbane expect a weapon pull mechanic every expansion now. Playing this for free because of prep is what is absolutely bulllshit. Same as 3 mana vanish(very dumbass card along with sap) and 1 mana academic espionage.
I read all the crying and complaining up until the point the guy said he plays control warrior. Nothing against control I actually prefer it but please stfu when you’re playing a deck of that caliber.
Do you really think the balance team doesn't know what cards are problematic, and what to do to balance the game? OF COURSE THEY DO, but listen me closely now. They are unable to fix the problem because of the MONEY, REAL MONEY that players have invested buying bundles and packs. What do you think would happen if suddenly players that have crafted rogue and warrior decks encounter a wave of nerfs?? OMG raiding party, mira's, miscreant, dr 7, omega devastator have been obliterated, what do i do??? MY DECK IS USELESS. FU BLIZZARD, GIVE MY MONEY BACK. That's exactly what would happen. That's the reason nerfs come months after the issue is discovered...
So the problem for Rogue is deeper than just "Waggle Pick" or 3 Mana draw 2 pirates and a weapon. The problem is much deeper and even beyond the basic and classic set but we can start there.
Preperation - How this card is still in the form it is, shocks me deeply. 0 Mana and get as much as a 3 mana discount on a spell is a broken effect. 0 Mana spells have to be incredibly careful as they can go from balanced to broken in a hurry and this one hasn't been balanced in a long time. If Innervate, Wild Growth, Nourish AND Naturalize were all nerfed or hall of famed. How is there "Any" legitimate explanation as to why this card has not been in the same conversation. Especially since a "Tempo Rogue/Miracle Rogue" pops up in almost every meta in some fashion and is always decent due to the broken cards in the classic/basic set (Fix - 1 Mana and 2 Mana discount: This would at least allow the card to remain playable while actually being balanced somewhat though still could be broken at the nerfed state too!)
Raiding Party - 3 Mana Combo card where you get to draw 2 Pirates and a weapon. Now there is another card involved here that is a problem but it's more than what it seems. With the sheer glut of 0 mana cards that Rogues play. This is very often a 3 Mana play on turn 3 or 4 and sometimes is a 0 Mana Tutor 3 cards. (Fix - 1 Pirate and Combo to 1 Weapon: Drawing 3 cards for 3 mana is "Never" balanced. Nourish cost 5 and it got nerfed)
Waggle Pick - 4 mana 4/2 weapon with Shadowstep effect on a random minion. It's not incredibly hard to target what minion you want to bounce and with Deadly Poisons as well as Captain Greenskin. This card has gotten out of control and I'm not sure again why the developers decided that a high attack weapon in a deck which often plays on Tempo was a good idea. It moved Tempo Rogue from Tempo to more of the old Pirate Warrior/Face Warrior gameplan of punch your opponent in the face alot with the weapon. "Many" players simply ignore your board completely and throw random spells at face just to pump out damage to try and "Get there" (Fix - 4 mana 3/2 weapon with a discount of 1 on the bounced card not 2)
Shadowstep - Another argument here as this again allows for broken combinations and has been a criminal in Rogue for a long time of being an unbalanced card. It's another of these basic/classic set cards that should've been considered for nerf a long time ago as it again allows for broken things in the class and game over and over. It limits design space because of how it allows OTK potential. (Fix - Reduce mana reduction from 2 to 1)
Dread Corsair - This one is fairly simple honestly and I don't understand why the mana reduction for it is a thing to begin with (Fix - Reduce to costing 3 mana, remove mana reduction ability)
Developers - This is where the conversation/discussion will get me some flak but I feel this is warranted at this point. I've felt for a long time that Rogue for whatever reason is the "Golden Boy" class in Hearthstone because over "Years" the Developers have not Hall of Famed or nerfed cards like Prep, Shadowstep, Sap, Backstab and more. The only nerf the class has ever gotten is "Conceal" which in the grand scheme of things is pretty weak sauce comparing to other nerfs/Hall of Fames. There's another thread for another time pointing out all the classes that have gotten hozed the worst through the HOF process but I promise you that Rogue is at the bottom of that list, not the top.
There needs to be fairness across all the classes in the basic/standard set and favoring one class over the other eight is something that allows an expansion of good to broken cards to be printed. In the last two expansions Rogue received: Vendetta (Broken but on a lesser level), Waggle Pick (Broken), Raiding Party (Broken hugely), EVIL Miscreant (Broken but not as bad as above yet), Heistbaron Togwaggle (Broken but doesnt make the cut for being broken enough). As well as a variety of "Really good" but not busted cards.
Significant players and streamers are leaving Hearthstone in large numbers for other games due to a meta which has been unable to be balanced for well over a year now by this team. Between the horrific 2018 meta of Odd/Even and OTK and now Tempo Rogue all day every day. (I played 100 games for instead with Control Warrior and wound up with a 44% playrate against Rogue.) There needs to be some significant introspection and legitimate balance discussion on this team because they are quickly allowing the game to fall into a place where it might not recover from. I don't like calling out developers because they of course work very hard and try their best. At the end of the day though i'm not paid to do the job, they are. If they are not doing the job to a point where people are leaving your game in droves. (As shown by Dean Ayala late last year/early this year asking players what would it take for them to come back) is a horrible sign and showcases the problems.
(Fix - Either take a real look at the actual problem cards in your game and address them because there's even more than just these. These are just in ONE CLASS which has been Preserved to this point by the team and not targetted even though it should've been several times over by now. If not that, bring in a team that can take a neutral look at things and actually address the problems that "Do" exist. Because right now Hearthstone is trending down, not up. Another year like 2018 and it will not just be a valley in the game's life but will begin to be it's future path.
I believe you want to post this here:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/please_give_me_attention/comedy100/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty
Now that your post has at least one comment leading to the salt threat, the discussion can continue without interruption
Waggle Pick should not be a Rogue card. No Rogue weapons should have more than 3 damage (without buffs).
Raiding Party is an over-the-top card. Should probably cost (4).
Preparation should have been HoFed and replaced with Counterfeit Coin.
And that's it.
Just don't come and tell us that Rogue has been "preserved" and is "the only class" that has "never been targeted" by the devs. Because it's not just false, it's Bullsh1t entirely.
Sick and tired of this policy of providing classes with out-of-place cards just to build an excuse to destroy the class entirely, supported by short-sighted users as the OP.
Nerf this.... nerf that.... and the saga continues!
the main problem I have with the rogue class is that I feel like it has very strict rules which limit the design space and only allow the class to play tempo/aggro decks.
rogue's dont have any heal, taunts, or board wipes. I know all classes have a certain restrictions to keep the flavor, but those rules can be ignored at times. hunter, for example was never had a lot of draw, but then we got deathstalker rexxar, and masters call. druid was never a armoring class, but then with KaC, they got tons of armor.
but rogue is kept inside of a tiny box, so that the rogue today feels the exact same as rogue 2 years ago.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I agree, I am tired of facing some iteration of tempo rogue every single expansion. All the points regarding to the cards you made make sense to me. Maybe the problem goes deeper than that and lids actually within the basic and classic set that never rotates? I don't know.
I also don't really know nor care about if significant numbers of players and streamers are leaving the game or if developers really "love" rogue that much (maybe it's because a lot of players seem to love rogue since it usually allows for fairly cheap decks with which people can easily climb the ladder).
I think mentioning developers and players leaving steers the focus away from the actual point, the problem with rogue as a class. But hey that's just my point of view.
What was the tldr of post besides saying let’s nuke rogue identity to.
Nerfs may provide a temporary solution, but other OP decks will emerge after the nerfs(zoo warlock going off the charts maybe? ) and new nerfs will be requested.
The main problem that ever card game is facing is that people are netdeckers which kind of makes sense since most have the dust for 1-2 archetypes and they pick 1-2 more dominant on ladder. I would like to have a "playrate limit" introduced from Blizzard. It may sound like a lame idea but just checking what class you are playing in your account is not that hard code-wise , in comparison with the implementation of tournament mode for example. So, a 10-consecutive-games-limit with one class or sth similar, would cause people to play something different. For example imagine the ladder if anyone climbing was forced to play only 10 games a day with an OP class, then having to change due to this class being kinda of banned for the rest of the day. Again, it may sound lame, but I think it would bring more variety on ladder(though people will complain about not playing their favorite class ALL the time, and some like Apxvoid would insta-quit the game :P )
Why do these forums call for nerfs so often? I can't answer that for everyone, but the times that I join those conversations, its usually because the perceived or actual power of a card is impacting the fun experience of many players. That does not necessarily mean we need to nerf or HOF cards because its powerful, but there needs to be some sort of standard criteria in order to apply to cards.
I think all of the nerf talks are silly after awhile, but not because the talks are unneccessary, but because we don't have standard rules that apply. Sometimes cards get nerfed because its 'unfun' to play against. Other times its in 'every single deck of that class'. And even other times, they get nerfed and no one knows exactly why as the card wasn't an issue that the numbers supported.
So I think the real talk should be focused on setting rules of standards so that if a card fits those rules, then they can get the 'nerf' talks. Instead of talking about how powerful cards are, we should be focusing on setting up guidelines of what qualifies a card for nerfs or HOF. These standards need to be applied and setup by the Blizzard team. They need to be enforced evenly across the board and they need to be done so that players understand the reasons behind it.
It feels like these forums call for nerfs because the rules are chaotic and random at best. The rules get applied haphazardly and don't seem to have consistent rules or guidelines. I will give a few examples...
Druid. It was claimed that Wild Growth and Nourish were in too many decks and that many of the Druid cards meant that most Druid decks looked exactly the same except for a few cards to swap out win conditions. If this were applied universally, then we would also have to look at Wrath and Swipe, which has also been in almost every Druid deck. Even Token Druid plays both of these cards. Every control deck and combo deck played these cards with a few exceptions.
So the fans of Wild Growth get mad when you try to explain that it was in every Druid deck. Meanwhile there are other cards that ALSO fits these rules and does not seem like a consistent rule set.
Warrior. Execute and Fiery War Axe. Considered way too efficient removal for the cost, so they increased the cost of both by 1. They were also in every single Warrior deck ever made, both Aggro and Control. Fiery War Axe has dropped off the radar, because it's terrible at 3 mana, but look at every single control deck now? Execute is STILL in every single control deck. And they have even more removal in the class, like Shield Slam. And then other classes get better weapons at lower or similar mana costs. I thought warrior was the main weapon class? They get a 4 mana 3/2 weapon, while Rogue gets a 4/2 4 mana weapon that discounts a minion for later tempo plays. Shaman gets an overload weapon that can be a 3/3 weapon for 2 mana.
So as I see things, I think players and those on these forums see how these rules are not applied evenly and are seemingly random. They feel like well if X got nerfed before, why not this card that has similar properties? Those are valid questions and reasons for wanting to nerf cards, but the problem is not that a card is powerful or unfun, it's that the rules setup by Blizzard and the dev team are not applied fairly and evenly across all classes and cards.
The diverse calls for nerfs after this expansion actually shows a decent amount of balance. Off the top of my head, I've seen complaints about Bomb Warrior, Control Warrior, Khagar Mage, Shaman Murloc, Token Druid, and this general rant against rogues. There have probably been threads about Mech Hunter, but I haven't read any. (I definitely don't read every thread in the forums)
Apparently, many think Warlock is overpowered in the Arena.
Seems like the hate is getting spread around to a lot of classes. Maybe it's time to stop and recognize that the devs did a pretty good job this time.
Is this guy seriously asking for a nerf to dread corsair?
nerf crybabies
How to kill a class. Jeez.
Dread Corsair... the card hasn't seen play since pre-nerf pirate warrior and now he gets a bit of time on the sunlight and you are calling for a nerf?
The only card that could be nerfed is Raiding Party.
Crybaby comments while adorable are also not productive and do not defend or attack any point. Just adds nothing.
I understand where people see others asking for nerfs all the time and it's too often used but my point about Rogue never being targetted is fairly accurate. As mentioned that Conceal was the only card to be nerfed or HOF'd from the Rogue class "Ever" I believe. Most of the cards mentioned are "enhanced" because of the existance of Preperation. It is the biggest offender of all the cards in the class and needs work the most. It allows for broken turns where Rogue can play 5-6-7 cards on turns with less than 10 mana. Anything with mana reduction has always been between a spectrum of powerful to utterly broken.
Emperor Thaurissan would've been nerfed if he hadn't been part of the first standard rotation because he allowed for broken combos.
Innervate - (Not mana reduction but it used to give you mana for 0 mana cost. Now it's halved and still has seen some scattered play)
Wild Growth - (Mana Ramp and eventually nerfed because of how much play it saw no matter what)
Nourish - (See Above and repeat)
Most cards with a mana reduction or mana ramp are going to be broken and Rogue does it across too many cards, "By" too much. If Shadowstep and Waggle Pick was 1 mana reduction it would be a significant difference though I still think Waggle needs to be weaker damage wise.
I didn't even approach Sap which I think fits the Wild Growth/Nourish comparison more than anything since it's been in every Rogue deck in the history of Hearthstone, BUT it's not the issue at the moment. There are plenty of ways for a "Tempo Rogue" to exist where the design space isn't so completely limited and still be cheap. It involves cards like Preperation taking a significant nerf or HOF though because they allow "Too" much. Just see Myra's with Prep for a 2 mana draw 9 cards play to know how silly the card can be.
Wasn't cold blood and blade flurry nerfed? Or do those not count?
HoF Prep.
I absolutely despise shadowstep but they will never remove this card.
Since Kingsbane expect a weapon pull mechanic every expansion now. Playing this for free because of prep is what is absolutely bulllshit. Same as 3 mana vanish(very dumbass card along with sap) and 1 mana academic espionage.
Fun > Meta
I read all the crying and complaining up until the point the guy said he plays control warrior. Nothing against control I actually prefer it but please stfu when you’re playing a deck of that caliber.
Nerf the players. As soon as a deck shows 1% higher winrates than others, all the sheep start playing that deck...
Do you really think the balance team doesn't know what cards are problematic, and what to do to balance the game? OF COURSE THEY DO, but listen me closely now. They are unable to fix the problem because of the MONEY, REAL MONEY that players have invested buying bundles and packs. What do you think would happen if suddenly players that have crafted rogue and warrior decks encounter a wave of nerfs?? OMG raiding party, mira's, miscreant, dr 7, omega devastator have been obliterated, what do i do??? MY DECK IS USELESS. FU BLIZZARD, GIVE MY MONEY BACK. That's exactly what would happen. That's the reason nerfs come months after the issue is discovered...
Preparation is the main issue with Rogue. it limits design space so hard and puts the class in a tiny little box of what it is good at.
imo, they should't HOF Prep, because there are wild players too.
they should give Prep the good ol' Warsong Commander nerf and make it totally unplayable. would be good for the game.