Technically speaking, this is prohibited under rule 1.C.ii.1 of the Blizzard end user license agreement (cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;)
I can't say for sure if Blizzard has expressly authorized people to cooperate on ladder, but I think it's safe to say that this is tolerated by Blizzard
Have you actually seen one of these streams? Purple probably plays 10x worse than he does alone because he's constantly making plays that are intentionally bad just to trigger/bait his friends. Meanwhile in Zalae's stream, he's having a chat about stuff completely unrelated until his turn ropes out and he's forced to panic play a bunch of random cards
It does not give them any unfair advantage that other players wouldn't have access to, and besides have you seen these replays? They're mostly meme decks for entertainment value. Recently I saw Purple deliberately miss lethal so he could summon an 8-drop for hilarity.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I see where you are coming from because it gives the impression that they are using outside help. But remember, on ladder you can also have a deck tracker, you can have deck lists for the most popular decks with played win-rate percentages and other statistics from HSReplay, and you can use other tools such as calculators and programs that can generate very specific statistics (less likely).
Is what Zalae, Purple and others do considered cheating or not? They sit on a call together and while on live ladder talk over how to play the opponent that one guy is playing. So it's principly a "Team" versus one. Just asking as it seems really poor form and questionable at best to be legit.
Lol are you actually complaining about ppl playing a game together with their friends to have fun? Just wow. How is it any different than when two ppl play on one phone in a room for example? Smh...
OP didn’t through that one. It’s just like saying it’s cheating if someone coaches you while you play a starcraft ladder game.
Theres actually a clear answer: It IS cheating. But only during a tournament. Blizzard says it loud and clear in the Tournament Handbook ( https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/esports/programs/rules-and-policies ): Point 7.11.ii: 7.11 Cheating. (a) Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times and may not break Tournament or Player Handbook rules or omit information from tournament officials in order to try to or gain an advantage. Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. Cheating includes, but is not limited to: ii. Providing or seeking match advice from another person during a match. Team tournaments that explicitly allow team communication are an exception to this rule. Press obligations are also an exception to this rule.
But this is only valid for tournament play. For ladder play, the blizzard end user license agreement should be used, and i will quote Doomer_22:
Technically speaking, this is prohibited under rule 1.C.ii.1 of the Blizzard end user license agreement (cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;)
I can't say for sure if Blizzard has expressly authorized people to cooperate on ladder, but I think it's safe to say that this is tolerated by Blizzard
And i agree. It's technically cheating, but tolerated / allowed, because it's fun and erveyone can do it, and there is not much on the line (except high legend ladder finishes)
Tespa for Collegiate eSports Hearthstone tournaments uses teams of 3, in case one person has the cards for one deck, and the others, the other ones. For the finals for it, then each player runs 3 decks of a class, for all 9 classes being represented.
The wording of that rule suggests they're referring to third party software/tools, not talking about a game with friends.
I think the last part is the important one. And I think "any other user an advantage" isn't suggesting anything at all. And having someone telling you what to do is an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to do that in a non-tournament-environment, it's fun to do, and it's tolerated by blizzard. But technically, in terms of blizzard's end user licence agreement - it's cheating.
It’s part of training. They want to see and hear their team mates plays. As far as cheating is going, if you’re allowed to spectate a game officially, you’re good doing it on a stream.
The wording of that rule suggests they're referring to third party software/tools, not talking about a game with friends.
I think the last part is the important one. And I think "any other user an advantage" isn't suggesting anything at all. And having someone telling you what to do is an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to do that in a non-tournament-environment, it's fun to do, and it's tolerated by blizzard. But technically, in terms of blizzard's end user licence agreement - it's cheating.
What part of that is giving one player an advantage? Anyone can chat about strategy during a game. edit: The game itself allows you to spectate your friends, it seems really ridiculous if they'd expect you to not discuss the game during spectating.
The wording of that rule suggests they're referring to third party software/tools, not talking about a game with friends.
I think the last part is the important one. And I think "any other user an advantage" isn't suggesting anything at all. And having someone telling you what to do is an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to do that in a non-tournament-environment, it's fun to do, and it's tolerated by blizzard. But technically, in terms of blizzard's end user licence agreement - it's cheating.
What part of that is giving one player an advantage? Anyone can chat about strategy during a game. edit: The game itself allows you to spectate your friends, it seems really ridiculous if they'd expect you to not discuss the game during spectating.
Alright. You have no technical advantage or anything over the other player. You are right. Because you play as "party vs party", although most "parties" will consist of one player. It only changes for tournament play, because than "party" becomes "individual person".
The wording of that rule suggests they're referring to third party software/tools, not talking about a game with friends.
I think the last part is the important one. And I think "any other user an advantage" isn't suggesting anything at all. And having someone telling you what to do is an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to do that in a non-tournament-environment, it's fun to do, and it's tolerated by blizzard. But technically, in terms of blizzard's end user licence agreement - it's cheating.
I don't think talking to friends is a "method not expressly authorized by Blizzard". "Cheats" as defined under item 1 of the below EULA has to be understood in view of the headline, meaning "Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute..." the cheats. And as an example, they give in-game-bugs (like Disguised Toast used on stream). Discussing a game is nothing systematic and can hardly be called a method.
Cheating: Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute the following or assist therein:
cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;
bots; i.e. any code and/or software, not expressly authorized by Blizzard, that allows the automated control of a Game, or any other feature of the Platform, e.g. the automated control of a character in a Game;
hacks; i.e. accessing or modifying the software of the Platform in any manner not expressly authorized by Blizzard; and/or
any code and/or software, not expressly authorized by Blizzard, that can be used in connection with the Platform and/or any component or feature thereof which changes and/or facilitates the gameplay or other functionality;
The point was more to ask the question and try to have a discussion about it and see where people's thoughts lay. Do I actually think they are cheating? "No". But is it a gray area in some senses, yea I think it is. It came up because I played Purple when he wasn't streaming yesterday and then thought to myself. How would "I" feel if I was playing against a team rather than just the individual I am expected.
Also something not mentioned by those indicating that they can be stream sniped. Stream sniping is something that gets people banned in channels and I believe Twitch has rules on the books to remove their accounts too if it can be proven. So Stream sniping isn't on the up and up either as a strategy. Just food for thought rather than trying to be an out and out arse.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Technically speaking, this is prohibited under rule 1.C.ii.1 of the Blizzard end user license agreement (cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;)
I can't say for sure if Blizzard has expressly authorized people to cooperate on ladder, but I think it's safe to say that this is tolerated by Blizzard
BOW DOWN BEFORE THE GOD OF DEATH
Have you actually seen one of these streams? Purple probably plays 10x worse than he does alone because he's constantly making plays that are intentionally bad just to trigger/bait his friends. Meanwhile in Zalae's stream, he's having a chat about stuff completely unrelated until his turn ropes out and he's forced to panic play a bunch of random cards
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Nah it's not cheating at all you can also spectate your friends and help them in the same fashion on discord/skype or even.. the game's chat.
in bold: actual game features
It does not give them any unfair advantage that other players wouldn't have access to, and besides have you seen these replays? They're mostly meme decks for entertainment value. Recently I saw Purple deliberately miss lethal so he could summon an 8-drop for hilarity.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I see where you are coming from because it gives the impression that they are using outside help. But remember, on ladder you can also have a deck tracker, you can have deck lists for the most popular decks with played win-rate percentages and other statistics from HSReplay, and you can use other tools such as calculators and programs that can generate very specific statistics (less likely).
No. It's not at all.
OP didn’t through that one. It’s just like saying it’s cheating if someone coaches you while you play a starcraft ladder game.
Theres actually a clear answer: It IS cheating. But only during a tournament.
Blizzard says it loud and clear in the Tournament Handbook ( https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/esports/programs/rules-and-policies ):
Point 7.11.ii:
7.11 Cheating.
(a) Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times and may not break Tournament or
Player Handbook rules or omit information from tournament officials in order to try to or gain
an advantage. Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. Cheating includes, but is not limited
to:
ii. Providing or seeking match advice from another person during a match. Team tournaments
that explicitly allow team communication are an exception to this rule. Press obligations
are also an exception to this rule.
But this is only valid for tournament play. For ladder play, the blizzard end user license agreement should be used, and i will quote Doomer_22:
And i agree. It's technically cheating, but tolerated / allowed, because it's fun and erveyone can do it, and there is not much on the line (except high legend ladder finishes)
Tespa for Collegiate eSports Hearthstone tournaments uses teams of 3, in case one person has the cards for one deck, and the others, the other ones. For the finals for it, then each player runs 3 decks of a class, for all 9 classes being represented.
The wording of that rule suggests they're referring to third party software/tools, not talking about a game with friends.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
It’s a game and thus shouldn’t ever be taken seriously
I think the last part is the important one. And I think "any other user an advantage" isn't suggesting anything at all.
And having someone telling you what to do is an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to do that in a non-tournament-environment, it's fun to do, and it's tolerated by blizzard. But technically, in terms of blizzard's end user licence agreement - it's cheating.
It’s part of training. They want to see and hear their team mates plays. As far as cheating is going, if you’re allowed to spectate a game officially, you’re good doing it on a stream.
Dibbity don't touch that!
What part of that is giving one player an advantage? Anyone can chat about strategy during a game. edit: The game itself allows you to spectate your friends, it seems really ridiculous if they'd expect you to not discuss the game during spectating.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Alright. You have no technical advantage or anything over the other player. You are right. Because you play as "party vs party", although most "parties" will consist of one player.
It only changes for tournament play, because than "party" becomes "individual person".
I don't think talking to friends is a "method not expressly authorized by Blizzard". "Cheats" as defined under item 1 of the below EULA has to be understood in view of the headline, meaning "Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute..." the cheats. And as an example, they give in-game-bugs (like Disguised Toast used on stream). Discussing a game is nothing systematic and can hardly be called a method.
Here is the respective EULA quote:
The game has an in game chat feature, and also an in game spectate feature. How much more "expressly authorized" do you want them to get?
Here's a way to watch your friends' games in real time, and here's a way to chat, but we forbid you to actually talk about the game.
OK.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I don't have a problem with it - and they are of course doing so publicly.
But I also don't think it was unreasonable of OP to ask the question, and start a discussion about it.
.
Then it's literally not cheating if it isn't during a tournament. The rest of your post is irrelevant.
The point was more to ask the question and try to have a discussion about it and see where people's thoughts lay. Do I actually think they are cheating? "No". But is it a gray area in some senses, yea I think it is. It came up because I played Purple when he wasn't streaming yesterday and then thought to myself. How would "I" feel if I was playing against a team rather than just the individual I am expected.
Also something not mentioned by those indicating that they can be stream sniped. Stream sniping is something that gets people banned in channels and I believe Twitch has rules on the books to remove their accounts too if it can be proven. So Stream sniping isn't on the up and up either as a strategy. Just food for thought rather than trying to be an out and out arse.