So. Lots of upset people. I haven't actually played any standard games yet. Planning on doing so tonight, but in the streams I've seen it does seem pretty nasty, if your opponent gets the combo, there is no winning (and the animation sucks, blah blah blah. but you never won vs an Exodia mage either.... it was just so inconsistent it was never a real threat.)
Question #1: Does it look like Shudderwock winrrate will actually be good?
I don't care if I lose 30% of the time against Shudderwock shaman. Thats not a problem. When I lost to Exodia mage, it was usually well... I shouldn't have given him 15 turns to get his combo piece out. Feels bad to lose in one turn, but oh well... thats his deck.
Question #2: Does it look like Shudderwock is going to be significantly more consistent then other OTK decks in the past?
If so. We do have a real problem. No OTK deck has ever been consistent enough to dominate the meta, and I really don't look forward to here in 3 weeks when the meta settles playing nothing but OTKstone.
Question #3. How can we beat this?
I'm guessing there are two probable ways.
1. Shoot first. Kill them with an Aggro deck that's too fast.
From what I've seen the amount of taunt, and heal packed in the deck has a significant stalling power against aggro. Usually these plays are futile because your not advancing enough to actually win, but since in this case, your combo will auto-win its different.
2. Kill the combo.
How can we kill the combo. One idea I had was burning cards. Double Gnomeferatu? Glinda Crowskin + Gnomeferatu? I know we've seen weird cards that swap hands and swap decks, and allow double turns ect... Is there something we've overlooked that can be useful in breaking?
Just some thoughts. I'm seriously considering running a Glinda Crowskin + Gnomeferatu combo somehow to try and burn a core piece.
Only viable options seems to be aggro paladin, cubelock and maybe a huntet with godly draw. You have to kill them fast and only theese 3 decks can achieve that
I actually opened one through my packs. But I really don't like this OTK combo. I was more excited about the value potential when it was released, but didn't realize that grumble had this broken combo with saranite chain gang. Hmm. Minions cost more cards? lol.
funnily enough i beat it once with spiteful priest. my chamelios copied his shudderwock and i managed to kill before i was killed, not a consistent way but something maybe
Spiteful priest is heavily favored against Shudderwock.
2. Looks super consistent atm at least the good versions
3. only chance is to rush it down however in difference to other combo decks until now this deck runs Taunts and 2x Lifedrinker and weave thats 30 heal. And has easy aoe clears with volkano and lightning storm.
4. Dirty Rat is gone and they made the fatal flaw to not reprint the effekt on a card so basically there is no card that stops or interacts with this combo.
It's probably gonna be an aggro meta anyway so no I don't think Shudderwock will be a problem for now. It could be in the future though if slower decks start to actually become viable again.
SO. Hsreplay is starting to pick up some data on the new set.
Interesting enough:
CARD Deck win-rate
Murmuring Elemental. 43%
Shudderwock. 43.7% (Played Win-rate 77.5%)
Grumble 44.3%
Chain Gang 48.6%
So. This means, for now. The OTK is not consistent enough to do real damage. yet. These numbers look allot like what Kingsbane rogue looks like. So fingers crossed it can't refine itself into a more nasty win-rate.
By that same token. Shudderwock is #1 win-rate when played at 77.5%. Who's next. Hey its Archmage Antonidus....
Cubelock and Baku Aggro paladin do a really good job of countering Shudderwock shaman. I baku hunter can finish them up pretty quick too if they dont draw their healing
I beat one of these decks before I even knew what it was with a Hemet Toxmonger Quest Hunter I brewed up. The deck has no removal until turn 3 and couldn't deal with a swarm of Feral Gibberers.
Played the deck from 10 to 5 with 3 losses against aggro paladin. Warlock, Rogue, Hunter and Priest were no problem. It‘s just crazy, the whole board is freezed, Jabberwockys on Board in Hand, Lifedrain the opponent can‘t do shit. I think multiple freeze effects and taunt buy you enough time for your Turn 9 and 10.
Hahaha people already netdecking 7 hours after the xpac came out, what a fucking joke of a community.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
So the animation is actually good. It prevents from playing multiple shudderwock. I just played a game where he got shudderwock out but could only drop 1 before end of turn, and I finished him off in my turn
So. Lots of upset people. I haven't actually played any standard games yet. Planning on doing so tonight, but in the streams I've seen it does seem pretty nasty, if your opponent gets the combo, there is no winning (and the animation sucks, blah blah blah. but you never won vs an Exodia mage either.... it was just so inconsistent it was never a real threat.)
Question #1: Does it look like Shudderwock winrrate will actually be good?
I don't care if I lose 30% of the time against Shudderwock shaman. Thats not a problem. When I lost to Exodia mage, it was usually well... I shouldn't have given him 15 turns to get his combo piece out. Feels bad to lose in one turn, but oh well... thats his deck.
Question #2: Does it look like Shudderwock is going to be significantly more consistent then other OTK decks in the past?
If so. We do have a real problem. No OTK deck has ever been consistent enough to dominate the meta, and I really don't look forward to here in 3 weeks when the meta settles playing nothing but OTKstone.
Question #3. How can we beat this?
I'm guessing there are two probable ways.
1. Shoot first. Kill them with an Aggro deck that's too fast.
From what I've seen the amount of taunt, and heal packed in the deck has a significant stalling power against aggro. Usually these plays are futile because your not advancing enough to actually win, but since in this case, your combo will auto-win its different.
2. Kill the combo.
How can we kill the combo. One idea I had was burning cards. Double Gnomeferatu? Glinda Crowskin + Gnomeferatu? I know we've seen weird cards that swap hands and swap decks, and allow double turns ect... Is there something we've overlooked that can be useful in breaking?
Just some thoughts. I'm seriously considering running a Glinda Crowskin + Gnomeferatu combo somehow to try and burn a core piece.
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
Only viable options seems to be aggro paladin, cubelock and maybe a huntet with godly draw. You have to kill them fast and only theese 3 decks can achieve that
This card is so annoying and people will start complainning so you should enchant and be happy before got nerfed.
I actually opened one through my packs. But I really don't like this OTK combo. I was more excited about the value potential when it was released, but didn't realize that grumble had this broken combo with saranite chain gang. Hmm. Minions cost more cards? lol.
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
First, no matter how powerful it is, that animation length needs fixed. Even if this is nerfed it’ll be in meme decks.
I think maybe just having it not work with Lifedrinker and nightblade will solve the OTK problem.
Glinda Crowskin + Summoning Portal Pray they live. Play 5 Gnomeferatu following turn.
Actually... you can already play 5 Gnomeferatu without the discount on the following turn.
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
1. Winrate looks pretty high atm.
2. Looks super consistent atm at least the good versions
3. only chance is to rush it down however in difference to other combo decks until now this deck runs Taunts and 2x Lifedrinker and weave thats 30 heal. And has easy aoe clears with volkano and lightning storm.
4. Dirty Rat is gone and they made the fatal flaw to not reprint the effekt on a card so basically there is no card that stops or interacts with this combo.
King Togwaggle Anything?
Fal'dorei Strider Rogue?
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
It's probably gonna be an aggro meta anyway so no I don't think Shudderwock will be a problem for now. It could be in the future though if slower decks start to actually become viable again.
I have a small question - has anyone played aggro in the first few hours? If yes, has someone played it against Shudderwock?
SO. Hsreplay is starting to pick up some data on the new set.
Interesting enough:
CARD Deck win-rate
Murmuring Elemental. 43%
Shudderwock. 43.7% (Played Win-rate 77.5%)
Grumble 44.3%
Chain Gang 48.6%
So. This means, for now. The OTK is not consistent enough to do real damage. yet. These numbers look allot like what Kingsbane rogue looks like. So fingers crossed it can't refine itself into a more nasty win-rate.
By that same token. Shudderwock is #1 win-rate when played at 77.5%. Who's next. Hey its Archmage Antonidus....
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
Cubelock and Baku Aggro paladin do a really good job of countering Shudderwock shaman. I baku hunter can finish them up pretty quick too if they dont draw their healing
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
I beat one of these decks before I even knew what it was with a Hemet Toxmonger Quest Hunter I brewed up. The deck has no removal until turn 3 and couldn't deal with a swarm of Feral Gibberers.
Played the deck from 10 to 5 with 3 losses against aggro paladin. Warlock, Rogue, Hunter and Priest were no problem. It‘s just crazy, the whole board is freezed, Jabberwockys on Board in Hand, Lifedrain the opponent can‘t do shit. I think multiple freeze effects and taunt buy you enough time for your Turn 9 and 10.
Sry for my bad english, it’s late :-)
I beat it with rush warrior. Even with a saronite chain gang and 12 healing to pound through.
This card is completely OP and it has to be fixed.
Here is an example:
http://www.twitch.tv/disguisedtoasths/v/249510060?sr=a&t=27350s
It creates infinite turns...
"I taste the essence of your soul..."
Hahaha people already netdecking 7 hours after the xpac came out, what a fucking joke of a community.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
So the animation is actually good. It prevents from playing multiple shudderwock. I just played a game where he got shudderwock out but could only drop 1 before end of turn, and I finished him off in my turn
"I am unfortunately, the hero of ages" -Harmony
Well the card its broken, but not a problem for now, lets settle the meta and well see.