Hearthpwn

Divine Favor

Hate to play against it, hate to play with it. Sometimes, at least.

Divine Favor, rewards putting your brain on auto pilot

From what comments i've seen its either doomguard/COUNTERSPELL/DIVINE FAVOR...

Doomguard i get it,but would these people honestly recommend counterspell and divine favor if those 2 aggro decks weren't in the top of meta right now?I'm pretty sure before this expansion both of these cards were nowhere and in noones mind.You can't just simply nerf or move to hof everything you dont like playing around or is strong in a specific meta.Meta changes and as so some cards become good and some bad.

A card that needed to be HoF is ice block and that is achieved.

A big problem in this meta is the recruit mechanic,being able to cheat 9 or 10 mana cost minions from turn 5-6 is what kills the game and the fun.

Take BGH for example,everyone was asking for a nerf when everyone was playing the old Handlock and they got it.Would anyone ask for the same nerf if the meta was mainly aggro?I dont think so.

Just stop trying to change the game to your personal likes.That's why 90% of nerf recommendations are not heard from Blizzard.Because most of them are personal dislikes and to be quite honest,ridiculous.

Quote from Ferrafox >>

Dark Pact. It just arrived and I'm already fucking sick of it

Doomsayer

In my honest opinion, Doomguard can stay in standard mainly because of the rng effect and whether or not its positive or negative.  I don't know what cards I want in HOF but I'm leaning towards Explosive Runes only because of its later effects on the game.

What about Mana Wyrm?

Divine Favor

But not because Paladin is an issue/top tier deck right now. It’s straight up the fact that the card punishes players for using a control deck, the one meta Blizzard desperately tries to push. I was Blizzard do not rotate it for that reason.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

 

Quote from Magitact >>

 

 What you stated is probably correct.  What I am trying to convey is the fact that even if shaman had the proper cards to build a good control or combo deck, why bother when you can just jam a copy or 2 of Bloodlust in your deck, get to the mid-game, spam a few totems while playing minions, and end the game.  I feel that this card reduces overall design space and I guess I will never understand why objects that do not bleed (totems) could ever be 'Bloodlusted'.

 Player preference? I know I can jam 2 Bloodlusts in my Shaman decks, I just don't do it because that is not my kind of playstyle. I can play Control and Combo decks with Shaman, specially in Wild, and why would I play with Bloodlust? Standard though, Shaman is missing tools to go in better directions, but we will see.

 

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

 

Quote from schammo >>

But going that way is making the best value out of Divine Favor, isn't it? Aggro also revolves around playing cards not the most 'value' way (e. g. Frostbolt, Fireball or Kill Command hitting the face). You just described the attrition way of playing cards, which is far away from what is actually happening in TCGs/CCGs.

 Exactly, that is the problem. Every card tries to maximize it's value by being played correctly, by having other cards played correctly. Divine Favour is the opposite. Asks you not to get the best value for each of your cards.

Aggro does not revolve around playing cards without maximizing the value. Using burn on face is the getting the most value possible if that kills the opponent. You have a finite amount of damage and you want to maximize it as an Aggro deck. Normally when you use Burn on face you get full damage for that burn, when you use it on minions you usually don't even use the full amount of damage on it...

Try playing like 200 Face Hunter games, it is not fun, but if you do focus on playing correctly, you will see what I mean with trying to maximize the value of each card in your deck. That will help you increase your winrate even marginally.

Value in an Aggro deck is the damage output you can get for each card.

Even in Aggro Divine Favour asks the opposite. If you have a hand of 2 Minibots, 2 Blessing of Might 2 Blessing of Wisdom and 1 Argent Squire with Divine Favour, you will most likely play Argent Squire and the 4 buffs to Divine Favour, than play the minions and only use the Buffs the next turn to maximize their value.

Quote from TheHiddenNinja >>

Speaking of reverting nerfs, I miss Tinkmaster Overspark and 2-mana starving buzzard, and unleash the hounds.

How far in the past would we go to revert nerfs? 2 hp novice engineer?

As a Wild player, none.

If cards are staples for too many decks, across various expansions, they simply need a nerf, not hof.

OR, I would hof Ancient of Lore just to revert its nerf.

Inner Fire and Doomguard.

Doomguard depens on mechanics and the powerlevel of other decks in the next expansion. While Inner Fire is just a dull card.

Inner Fire

In my opinion Blizzard could revert the nerfs done to basic and classic cards, moving them to the HoF so that Wild players can utilize them for some janky decks like Warsong Commander + Molten Giant. This way wild is exactly what it should be, Wild :)

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

 

Quote from schammo >>

 

By emptying your Hand you maximize the effect of Divine Favor... it's not like you would always do that, but only when you can draw cards. Your example is bad, because you would not always do that. Play 200 games of Aggro Paladin, then you might notice ;)

Face Hunter did the same with Quick Shot, by the way. Empty Hand to draw a card with it. Aggro is not only about value, it's also about hitting face. You admit that yourself, while at the same time talking about how valuable a play must always be. No, aggro plays are not always value plays. Aggro needs favourable trades early game and some value, but most of the time it just tries to close out the game ASAP. Something Divine Favor speeds up, and that is not contradictory to the "usual" design of cards. It's just another card, not abnormal.

 Emptying your hand as fast as possible is minimizing the value you get for your other cards. This is the problem you seem to be missing. This card constantly asks you to minimize the value of your other cards, to use the to the least effect possible just to have maximum effect for this one. That is not how other cards in this game work. Mostly every other card in the game not only wants you to maximize it's value, but also doesn't asks you to minimize the value you get from other cards, it usually does the opposite, asks you to maximize it.

This is bad design. My examply is fine. You are not required to do that every single time to put the point across. The mere fact that you will do this, deviate from the correct optimal path of play to maximize the value of your cards in the way I explained already tells you the problem.

I never said Quick Shot was well designed for starters, and on top of that, the number of times you minimize value of other cards for Divine Favour is multiple times higher than the times you do it for Quick Shot. The benefit of drawing one card is rarely enough to make you waste the entire hand just for that. The benefit of filling your entire hand with more resources is more than worth you wasting the resources you have.

Hitting face or to be more accurate, maximizing damage is how Aggro decks get value. As an Aggro deck, you don't obtain value in the same way other strategies do. You get value by optimizing your plays to ensure you get the maximum output of damage possible for your cards.

Aggro will make value trades every single time they determine that trade will maximize their damage output. Divine Favour is contrary to most cards and their design, I already explained why, I do not understand why you are trying to deny something obvious.

If you still don't understand this, play large sample sizes of multiple Aggro decks out there that don't use Divine Favour, and then do the same for Divine Favour decks. you will notice that they play very differently. Non-Divine Favour Aggro decks are far more conservative with their resources and maximize their value and damage output much better than Divine Favour Aggro decks. They have to do this because they don't have cards that allow them to waste value and resources like Divine Favour does. If this fails to be enough, just go ask a bunch of HS Pros about this, hopefully they can explain it to you in a way you can understand.

 

HoF is not solution. All problems continued in wild. Nerf or destroy cards for full value

Bloodreaver Gul'dan

Mana Wyrm - You are probably saying "WHY?!" 

Well, it's easy. Overpowered 1 mana drops are core cards of aggro / face decks ( Tunnel Trogg - Midrange, Face Shaman, Undertaker - Face Hunter... ). Just rotate it, please - And we will all be happy. 

Not to mention these cards are obviously broken - They could be 2 drops and still playable.