As annoying as Ice Block was to play against, other than against quest mage, it didn't affect the game much if you were already winning anyway in my personal experience. The card that needs to be hall of famed is definitely Counterspell. It's such an unfair card, especially in Aggro mage. Who thinks it is a good idea for one person to play a card that can totally nullify the opponent's next turn and potentially decide the game just because it blocks the player's high cost board removal? With explosive runes being introduced as well recently, playing against mage is a nightmare anyway and having secrets that both prevent any minions from being played and any board clear being used is simply unfair.
Sure, you can sometimes trigger it with cheaper spells or if you're lucky, with the coin but losing because your one big spell gets countered is not a good or fair mechanic to have in a card game.
This could go on a bit further. The only reason Counterspell is a bit of a problem right now is the 3 mana, 4/3 Put a secret out for free. It should probably have 3/2 stats and it would still be played.
Counterspell can't be Hall of Famed though, that card leads to the most interactive-ness among the mage secrets, I'd say. Although all the secrets are interactive to a point.
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This could go on a bit further. The only reason Counterspell is a bit of a problem right now is the 3 mana, 4/3 Put a secret out for free. It should probably have 3/2 stats and it would still be played.
Counterspell can't be Hall of Famed though, that card leads to the most interactive-ness among the mage secrets, I'd say. Although all the secrets are interactive to a point.
That is true, it is made twice as unfair when being played with a 4/3 body that can't be removed with a spell the next turn. Or even worse, when they play the kirin tor mage next to the Mana Wyrm who's getting buffer and buffer all the while your spells that try to remove the threat are being countered and your turn wasted.
If you think Counterspell is an issue, then you should probably learn to play before posting. Sorry if I'm being rude but that is one of the most fair of secrets since it can be countered (pun not intended) by playing around it, while if played smart and the opponent plays recklessly can be game winning.
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For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
I’m not a fan of Ice Block, but I hate cards like Mana Wyrm and Fireball way more. In my opinion those cards were better contenders for the Hall of Fame.
Well mage secrets aren't really secrets, if you are an above average player you probably can guess correctly what's the secret. There are just a few playable ones and you can easily play around them. There must always be some counter plays and decks that counter each other in the game otherwise it would always be the same match on and on. You should keep some cheap spells if you think the secret is counter spell and you can easily trigger it. Or you can even tech a eater of secrets when meta contains a large amount of secrets as it is right now. The reason ice block was hall of famed was not because it was OP or anything, it's just that most of the mages run it from aggro to control and it makes them a very annoying and one sided opponent.
I am going to say this one last time, that the "average" standard format player doesnt seems to understand...
One day wild will have more players than standard and by then people will start to realize that throwing cards to hall of fame does not resolve the problems.
Why do you think wild will have more players than standard?
The funny thing is: The "4/3" put a secret in play, didn't see any high level play for years. It didn't see play until arcanologist came out, and Ice lance was moved to hall of fame.
I had the Kirin Tor mage in my collection for years, and I played it occationally, but in 2017 it became a staple in mages metadecks. This certainly doens't make it broken.
The card that actually pushes the archetype over the edge is Aluneth. I'm not sure if Aluneth needs fixing, but I guess time will tell when the new expantions hits. The other addition that increasingly made the deck stronger is explosive runes. The draw engine along with additional burst, gave mages the ability to get an early tempo, hugh drawengine and a lot of burst.
FYI Counterspell and Kirin Tor mage has been around since the beginning. For the most part, Iceblock and Ice Barrier has been the most played secrets. And pre "standard" Mad scientist used to be the card that put secrets in play.
Thanks to ice block you get multiple turns to kill your opponent even if you would already be dead. Counterspell is easy to play around and against some decks that use a lot of minions or a lot of cheap spells it's totally useless. In decks that use high cost spells you can even save the coin to be sure that your *insert 5+ mana spell name here* doesn't get countered. Also, all the secret mage support is rotating out. Counterspell doesn't need to get hofd just because you can't play around it. On the other hand, ice block doesn't allow counterplays except for flare (since eater of secrets is rotating).
No counter spell is fine. It's never been a problem in past. It's only since blizzard keeps pushing secret mage that it's become problematic. Support for secret mage will rotate next month and all will be well again.
If you think Counterspell is an issue, then you should probably learn to play before posting. Sorry if I'm being rude but that is one of the most fair of secrets since it can be countered (pun not intended) by playing around it, while if played smart and the opponent plays recklessly can be game winning.
Playing around secrets in mage is currently more guesswork because they are running to many of them while both Counterspell and Explosive Runes can ruin your day. At the same time mage can generate insane tempo on board at the same time with Kirin Tor Mage or even Kabal Lackey. Of course this is not due to Counterspell alone but the combination can be very frustrating at the moment.
Still I would agree, that Counterspell does not need to be rotated because it will falls in and out of the meta very quickly.
I'm glad to see it go. On its own, it may not have been that problematic (according to some) but when coupled with the heap of other stalling tools (both in-deck and generated), some mage decks were very boring to play against.
I'm of the view that with this move, Blizzard have set the expectation of new and varied secrets going forwards. it'll be interesting to see what's in the pipeline for the new expansion.
As annoying as Ice Block was to play against, other than against quest mage, it didn't affect the game much if you were already winning anyway in my personal experience. The card that needs to be hall of famed is definitely Counterspell. It's such an unfair card, especially in Aggro mage. Who thinks it is a good idea for one person to play a card that can totally nullify the opponent's next turn and potentially decide the game just because it blocks the player's high cost board removal? With explosive runes being introduced as well recently, playing against mage is a nightmare anyway and having secrets that both prevent any minions from being played and any board clear being used is simply unfair.
Sure, you can sometimes trigger it with cheaper spells or if you're lucky, with the coin but losing because your one big spell gets countered is not a good or fair mechanic to have in a card game.
Everything you just said was fucking bullshit.
Counterspell you can play around. Crutch Block there is no way to play around. You play smart all game, make the right trades, deal a shitload of damage to the Mage's face, even bringing them down to 1 HP. You pop the Crutch Block, he then plays another. You pop that one, then suddenly he gets a THIRD ONE from Primordial Glyph. Once you pop the third one, you're dead because the mage somehow has lethal either from slowly doing damage to you, or from an OTK combo. There's no counters against it because Flare is Hunter exclusive and not ideal, Eater of Secrets is a terrible card, and Kezan Mystic is Wild exclusive.
So no, Crutch Block needed to go, so don't fucking try to defend it and say Counterspell is the problem when Counterspell isn't even used in every Mage deck, while Ice Block is.
The good thing about mage in the current meta is that it will leave or change when rotation comes in.
Ice Block had to go. It is a non-interactive card that been a source of controversy for a long time and can affect the outcome of any style of game, whether you're playing vs Ice Block with aggro, midrange, control, OTK, combo, etc. Counterspell only affects one part of the mechanics of the game: spells. Ice Block stops the end game completely for the opponent.
I do wish Counterspell didn't counter Flare, though, but even then it makes sense as to why.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I am going to say this one last time, that the "average" standard format player doesnt seems to understand...
One day wild will have more players than standard and by then people will start to realize that throwing cards to hall of fame does not resolve the problems.
Why do you think wild will have more players than standard?
Answer is simple - so they don't have to buy a new deck every two months. This is the real reason for the Raza and Patches nerf. these cards were never a problem in wild. Blizz was worried people who crafted decks based on them would jump ship to wild to keep their investment, so they neutered those decks. Plan on seeing more 'balance' changes to cards about to rotate, so you can't take your deck there.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I wish they had just changed ice block so, like quests, it can’t be gained through outside means. Ice block wasn’t a problem. 4+ Ice blocks a game was.
The secrets themselves aren't overpowered, their strength is in how easy it is for mages to draw and play them for free. With secrets like Counterspell and Explosive Runes, as an opponent you have no choice but to risk triggering them, since not playing any spells or minions will surely get you killed and you don't know which secret it is until you test for it. Even if you use an expendable spell or minion to test, it still means spending mana and a card to remove something the mage got to play for free. And the secret also buffs their Mana Wyrm and discounts Kabal Crystal Runner.
Playing around secrets works if you have some breathing room to delay your usual plays while you figure out what the secret is and how to get rid of it. Against a control deck you will have that time, but not against a tempo deck.
The Crystal Runner, Kabal Lackey and Medivh's Valet are rotating though, which will seriously weaken the deck in Standard.
As annoying as Ice Block was to play against, other than against quest mage, it didn't affect the game much if you were already winning anyway in my personal experience. The card that needs to be hall of famed is definitely Counterspell. It's such an unfair card, especially in Aggro mage. Who thinks it is a good idea for one person to play a card that can totally nullify the opponent's next turn and potentially decide the game just because it blocks the player's high cost board removal? With explosive runes being introduced as well recently, playing against mage is a nightmare anyway and having secrets that both prevent any minions from being played and any board clear being used is simply unfair.
Sure, you can sometimes trigger it with cheaper spells or if you're lucky, with the coin but losing because your one big spell gets countered is not a good or fair mechanic to have in a card game.
This could go on a bit further. The only reason Counterspell is a bit of a problem right now is the 3 mana, 4/3 Put a secret out for free. It should probably have 3/2 stats and it would still be played.
Counterspell can't be Hall of Famed though, that card leads to the most interactive-ness among the mage secrets, I'd say. Although all the secrets are interactive to a point.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
If you think Counterspell is an issue, then you should probably learn to play before posting. Sorry if I'm being rude but that is one of the most fair of secrets since it can be countered (pun not intended) by playing around it, while if played smart and the opponent plays recklessly can be game winning.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
I’m not a fan of Ice Block, but I hate cards like Mana Wyrm and Fireball way more. In my opinion those cards were better contenders for the Hall of Fame.
Well mage secrets aren't really secrets, if you are an above average player you probably can guess correctly what's the secret. There are just a few playable ones and you can easily play around them. There must always be some counter plays and decks that counter each other in the game otherwise it would always be the same match on and on. You should keep some cheap spells if you think the secret is counter spell and you can easily trigger it. Or you can even tech a eater of secrets when meta contains a large amount of secrets as it is right now. The reason ice block was hall of famed was not because it was OP or anything, it's just that most of the mages run it from aggro to control and it makes them a very annoying and one sided opponent.
Counterspell will become very average once the rotation hits and all of the current cards used in Secret Mage are out
The funny thing is: The "4/3" put a secret in play, didn't see any high level play for years. It didn't see play until arcanologist came out, and Ice lance was moved to hall of fame.
I had the Kirin Tor mage in my collection for years, and I played it occationally, but in 2017 it became a staple in mages metadecks. This certainly doens't make it broken.
The card that actually pushes the archetype over the edge is Aluneth. I'm not sure if Aluneth needs fixing, but I guess time will tell when the new expantions hits. The other addition that increasingly made the deck stronger is explosive runes. The draw engine along with additional burst, gave mages the ability to get an early tempo, hugh drawengine and a lot of burst.
FYI Counterspell and Kirin Tor mage has been around since the beginning. For the most part, Iceblock and Ice Barrier has been the most played secrets. And pre "standard" Mad scientist used to be the card that put secrets in play.
Thanks to ice block you get multiple turns to kill your opponent even if you would already be dead. Counterspell is easy to play around and against some decks that use a lot of minions or a lot of cheap spells it's totally useless. In decks that use high cost spells you can even save the coin to be sure that your *insert 5+ mana spell name here* doesn't get countered. Also, all the secret mage support is rotating out. Counterspell doesn't need to get hofd just because you can't play around it. On the other hand, ice block doesn't allow counterplays except for flare (since eater of secrets is rotating).
Ahh, the inevitable posts that appear after this where everyone wants every single card that has ever been considered good rotated.
No counter spell is fine. It's never been a problem in past. It's only since blizzard keeps pushing secret mage that it's become problematic. Support for secret mage will rotate next month and all will be well again.
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Disclaimer: Subjective opinion.
I'm glad to see it go. On its own, it may not have been that problematic (according to some) but when coupled with the heap of other stalling tools (both in-deck and generated), some mage decks were very boring to play against.
I'm of the view that with this move, Blizzard have set the expectation of new and varied secrets going forwards. it'll be interesting to see what's in the pipeline for the new expansion.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
The good thing about mage in the current meta is that it will leave or change when rotation comes in.
Ice Block had to go. It is a non-interactive card that been a source of controversy for a long time and can affect the outcome of any style of game, whether you're playing vs Ice Block with aggro, midrange, control, OTK, combo, etc. Counterspell only affects one part of the mechanics of the game: spells. Ice Block stops the end game completely for the opponent.
I do wish Counterspell didn't counter Flare, though, but even then it makes sense as to why.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I wish they had just changed ice block so, like quests, it can’t be gained through outside means. Ice block wasn’t a problem. 4+ Ice blocks a game was.
The secrets themselves aren't overpowered, their strength is in how easy it is for mages to draw and play them for free. With secrets like Counterspell and Explosive Runes, as an opponent you have no choice but to risk triggering them, since not playing any spells or minions will surely get you killed and you don't know which secret it is until you test for it. Even if you use an expendable spell or minion to test, it still means spending mana and a card to remove something the mage got to play for free. And the secret also buffs their Mana Wyrm and discounts Kabal Crystal Runner.
Playing around secrets works if you have some breathing room to delay your usual plays while you figure out what the secret is and how to get rid of it. Against a control deck you will have that time, but not against a tempo deck.
The Crystal Runner, Kabal Lackey and Medivh's Valet are rotating though, which will seriously weaken the deck in Standard.
I think Counterspell problematic. I dont run useless cards in my deck, I dont want to discard anything in order to play around it.