In a vaccum, you should have kept Twilight Drake and mulliganed Cobalt Scalebane. As a board control deck on the draw, pass-2-4 is a good curve. Twilight Drake is also better early game because you have more cards, and Scalebane isn't at its best on a board with nothing else. Let's assume the cards you replace end up the same for this example (so you have Tar Creeper and Curious Glimmeroot).
------Turn 1-------
Your opponent passes turn 1.
You draw Twilight Drake. In the video, you play Coin -> Netherspite Historian. In your post, you've mentioned that you were assuming you were playing against aggro druid based on what you'd seen in recent games (which turned out to be a good read, so well done) and you wanted to be on the board. My question to you is: what does a 1/3 do on the board for you? Were you planning to pick Faerie Dragon if it came up? You don't beat any played Druid one or two drop with a 1/3, so what does the body do? Also, once you've played Historian you don't have another two drop for next turn, meaning you're probably using your hero power at best, which is pretty much tempo suicide.
Your opponent plays Dire Wolf Alpha and passes. You draw Shadow Ascendant. Okay, so now you look like a genius because you drew a two-drop. Your (meaningful) options are:
1) Hit into the wolf and heal your guy. Tempo suicide so not worth considering. 2) Play Ascendant, hit wolf (leaves you with a 1/1 and opponent with a 2/1), Ascendant buffs other creature to 2/2 at end step. You finish with two 2/2's. 3) Play Ascendant, go face. You end up with a 2/4 and a 2/2.
There's a line of thought of "is wolf really their best turn 2 play?" or "What could playing wolf indicate?" but I don't think its worth exploring. Instead, we realise that our opponent will want to kill the Ascendant with the wolf to stop it accumulating value, and since that generally means it'll take damage equal to its toughness as it stands, we may as well not sink extra damage into it. So I'd take option 3, which is what you did.
Under my suggested gameplan of 0-2-4, you'd still be playing Historian this turn because it's not a straight trade and would require the Druid to sink mana into their hero power to kill it off, which would be amazing for you. Given that you drew two 3 drops, you could also go 0-3-3 and play the Glimmeroot or Tar Creeper this turn; I'd play Glimmeroot to get more options quicker. You probably don't need to play around Wrath against aggro druid and, even if they have it, that's 2/3rds of the mana next turn. Glimmeroot is a much more proactive play than Tar Creeper anyway.
Things aren't looking good, but your opponent is prepared to effectively waste cards to try and keep ahead of you on the board. They're choosing to not play around Shadow word:Death because they want to be able to beat your buffed historian on the board, and they probably know you're not running SW:D because of the current "Big Mana Priest" deck that you're looking like at this point.
Your historian can't beat the wolf in combat, so for now it's about the future turns. You have the choice between playing Tar Creeper or Glimmeroot. In the video, you play Tar Creeper and then smack Historian into the wolf, killing it. Assuming you're not playing at random, this leads me to think one of two things:
1) You were playing around a second Mark of Y'Shaarj. 2) You forgot how Tar Creeper works.
The first choice is extremely questionable. The opponent has seen fewer than 10 cards by this point and played a Mark already. The odds of them having a second are low and, even if they did, you could react the following turn by attacking with your Historian then. Could they be playing Mark of the Wild? Unlikely, but not impossible. Still, the proactive attack was unnecessary and leaves you in the crucial state of having no minions on the board in a board-control war after the wolf trades for Tar Creeper.
If you forgot how Tar Creeper works then... Don't do that next time, I guess?
If I'm honest, I would have played Tar Creeper here as well, but I would have gone face with Historian. In my mind, the Creeper trades one for one and I'm about to start playing big dragons, so that'll carry the board. Reading over the thread, it was better to play Glimmeroot; as mentioned above, it's the more proactive play and it gives you more options. It'll still die to the wolf but you'll be up a card and still have access to the Taunt later, which would have handy given what happens next...
0-2-4: You play Twilight Drake here, but he's got a lot of work to do. 0-3-3: You play whichever 3 drop you didn't play last turn.
Aside from drawing Mind Control, which was bad luck, you're basically dead here. You've lost board control with your board control deck. Your opponent has a 3-drop which is going to take over the game and even though you make Twilight Drake this turn, it doesn't matter. You need to be able to deal with Fledgling now and that doesn't happen. I could keep going over the rest of the game play by play but Flappy Bird snowballs so hard that the impact of your plays don't really matter anymore. And your opponent has Savage Roar because obviously.
even the trade with the direwolf was correct to kill it next turn after possible another buff he did nothing wrong you just telling people they misplayed something even tough you cant play correct by yourself and in 65% case it would be a jade so the coin was correct
If he was playing against Jade then it was even more incorrect to coin than it would be against aggro. Jade's optimal turn 2 is playing Wild Growth, or more often they hero power and say go. If you don't draw another two drop, then you spent your coin for nothing because you're just passing on turn 2.
well you cant avoid getting outtempo by jade the only thing i didnt get the twilight mulligan its his keycard, stil the coin was correct to get more valuable minions it isnt that unusual that spitefull priest have sometimes a downtime where he cant use all his manacrystals i have it often on Turn 7
MasterP2k, you're talking rubbish or trolling; I'm guessing you're one of the salty ragers who blame all their losses on RNG, while making fundamental mistakes like these. OP cares about other people's opinion, since he asked for it with this thread...and, astonishingly for you, he accepted he made a mistake, and is, hopefully, gonna try and think twice about making it again. You can, however, keep playing your way, and then complain about "luck" etc.
MasterP2k, you're talking rubbish or trolling; I'm guessing you're one of the salty ragers who blame all their losses on RNG, while making fundamental mistakes like these. OP cares about other people's opinion, since he asked for it with this thread...and, astonishingly for you, he accepted he made a mistake, and is, hopefully, gonna try and think twice about making it again. You can, however, keep playing your way, and then complain about "luck" etc.
iam not really trolling what if he didnt made a mistake? its an opinion you got to respect that brah
Woah I never played Priest,but I watched 10 seconds and I already see a mistake. You coin out a 2 drop ( a bad 1 drop btw statwise) before even knowing what kind of Druid he is,while holding two 3 drops ,and u hold a dragon that benefits from your handsize!!! He plays Direwolf . Now u get lucky and get a two drop . Now he buffs his Wolf and trades into your two drop .
On turn 3 you play your 3/5 taunt into his 5/3 , now you decide for whatever reason ( he used already a lot of his buffs ) to gift him a 2/4 ??? Wut??? With pleasure he trades his 5/1 into your 3/5 and plays a Fledgling.
From there on his Fledgling does what it does highrolling to victory.
But still this is no excuse for such awful early gameplay , you even got lucky to topdeck a twodrop imo.
The coin to drop 2 was a good choice against Druid you have make sure to outtempo him early on
And how u outtempo someone by coining out a 1/3 when u have the posibility to drop one of the best 3 drops (statwise) a turn later? Tempowise it was the worse play thats what we talking about. U talk about outtempo and consider the slower play beein faster because u drop a minion a turn earlier without considering the stats of the played minions. there is no scenario against aggro druid where a 1 atk minion on turn 2 would help u to control the board.
I want to thank you all, aspecially the people who have been constructive. like someone earler said, I have several opinions to review and that's indeed the type of feedback I was hoping for. I was hesitant to make this post at the start, but the majority have been great and have given me very trueful and amazing feedback! So Probable in the future I will make more some of these posts and mistake video's to share and hopefully I will get your feedback again.
even the trade with the direwolf was correct to kill it next turn after possible another buff he did nothing wrong you just telling people they misplayed something even tough you cant play correct by yourself and in 65% case it would be a jade so the coin was correct
I hope our mod Mr. AbusingKel forgives me if i respond one last time in this thread ,since it seems MasterP2k didn’t understood, or read all of the responses from mainly,Arcengal, AUzg,Natsu0Nii or me. I hope he can learn something and is not trolling.
So, to clarify one thing ahead i won’t touch anything about our ( skill) ranking or whatsoever, but what we’ve said are no opinions, these are facts as far as i can see.
T1 . Recently Zalae made a great video about Tempo and Value, also OP might check it out. So in this video he said what a great Tempocard the coin is . He used the coin ( without knowing what kind of Druid his opponent was, he said he was sure it’s 90% aggro but that can change every day drastically) to make a tempo play,BUT the Historian is NO Tempocard (nobody would play a vanilla one mana 1/3 body if it hadn’t any kind of synergy) it’s a value card . So his turn was kinda wishy washy ,bad vs aggro,not optimal vs control (since he also had a dragon that benefited from a larger handsize), the worst part is as many mentioned that he had no 2 drop but two good 3 drops.
A simpler example would be a scenario where you face a Hunter . It’s turn two,empty board.You hold a Acolyte of Pain and two ChillwindYetis . Now we obviously don’t coin out or Acolyte,yes we would have a 1/3 body on board, but would he contest anything hunter plays on turn 3? Eaglehornbow?Animalcompanion? No of course we Heropower and use the coin next turn,because we wanna contest his minions ,control the board,prevent the enemy minions attacking our face. We don’t care about carddraw, we care about our life/board.
T3 . So here you say : The trade with a 2/4 into a 5/3 was correct to kill it later after more possible buffs. Now in a very specific Vacuum your assumption might be partially correct .
But to quote the well known and respected 2k14 World Champion Firebat, he often says in his games something like ( just an example)" He used already a Swipe and a Wrath so we can play our Acolyte of Pain" . This is not because we ignore the fact they could have a second copy of a specific card ( in OPs case Markof Yshaar and Mark of the Lotus) , this is because it would be statistically wrong to make a play with these cards in mind !!! ( That being obviously only a specific amount of turns correct. ) . Btw, with the 2/4 on board i think TarCreeper was the correct play to PROTECT the 2/4 .
Even if he had another buff , he still would be able to do the trade afterwards.
I hope that helped to clear things up and wasn’t too far of topic. Good day!
I want to thank you all, aspecially the people who have been constructive. like someone earler said, I have several opinions to review and that's indeed the type of feedback I was hoping for. I was hesitant to make this post at the start, but the majority have been great and have given me very trueful and amazing feedback! So Probable in the future I will make more some of these posts and mistake video's to share and hopefully I will get your feedback again.
Thanks man, I can only say when you appear open to receiving constructive criticism and suggestions, there are a lot of people willing to help you out ;)
Also, if it would make you feel better, I can share a clip/video of me making a mistake against a french streamer on rank 4 earlier this month (in front of around 800 people watching :D ...I figured out he could be a streamer because he had a rare cardback so I went and checked after our game, turns out the channel is pretty popular); I was playing Control warlock against his Kingsbane Mill Rogue :D, somehow managed to win that game even after I made a mistake tho :D
There are situations in hearthstone where it can be very hard to spot the correct play and explain exactly why it's correct (sometimes it's downright impossible, practically speaking), but this isn't one of them. I'm sure you already understand this, but there's absolutely no logical reasoning that would lead one to accept that turn 1 coin the netherspite was a better line than coin 3-drop on 2 in this situation.
Just laying it out there that it isn't a matter of "opinion".
Notes: clearing quote of non-constructive. thanks for the positive feedback
My perspective:
In a vaccum, you should have kept Twilight Drake and mulliganed Cobalt Scalebane. As a board control deck on the draw, pass-2-4 is a good curve. Twilight Drake is also better early game because you have more cards, and Scalebane isn't at its best on a board with nothing else. Let's assume the cards you replace end up the same for this example (so you have Tar Creeper and Curious Glimmeroot).
------Turn 1-------
Your opponent passes turn 1.
You draw Twilight Drake. In the video, you play Coin -> Netherspite Historian. In your post, you've mentioned that you were assuming you were playing against aggro druid based on what you'd seen in recent games (which turned out to be a good read, so well done) and you wanted to be on the board. My question to you is: what does a 1/3 do on the board for you? Were you planning to pick Faerie Dragon if it came up? You don't beat any played Druid one or two drop with a 1/3, so what does the body do? Also, once you've played Historian you don't have another two drop for next turn, meaning you're probably using your hero power at best, which is pretty much tempo suicide.
I agree with taking Cobalt Scalebane from the discovery choice.
----- Turn 2 -----
Your opponent plays Dire Wolf Alpha and passes. You draw Shadow Ascendant. Okay, so now you look like a genius because you drew a two-drop. Your (meaningful) options are:
1) Hit into the wolf and heal your guy. Tempo suicide so not worth considering.
2) Play Ascendant, hit wolf (leaves you with a 1/1 and opponent with a 2/1), Ascendant buffs other creature to 2/2 at end step. You finish with two 2/2's.
3) Play Ascendant, go face. You end up with a 2/4 and a 2/2.
There's a line of thought of "is wolf really their best turn 2 play?" or "What could playing wolf indicate?" but I don't think its worth exploring. Instead, we realise that our opponent will want to kill the Ascendant with the wolf to stop it accumulating value, and since that generally means it'll take damage equal to its toughness as it stands, we may as well not sink extra damage into it. So I'd take option 3, which is what you did.
Under my suggested gameplan of 0-2-4, you'd still be playing Historian this turn because it's not a straight trade and would require the Druid to sink mana into their hero power to kill it off, which would be amazing for you. Given that you drew two 3 drops, you could also go 0-3-3 and play the Glimmeroot or Tar Creeper this turn; I'd play Glimmeroot to get more options quicker. You probably don't need to play around Wrath against aggro druid and, even if they have it, that's 2/3rds of the mana next turn. Glimmeroot is a much more proactive play than Tar Creeper anyway.
--------turn 3-------
Opponent Mark of Y'sharrj's their wolf, eats your Ascendant. They then puke a Mark of the Lotus to give their guy +1/+1 and say go. You draw (another) Cobalt Scalebane.
Things aren't looking good, but your opponent is prepared to effectively waste cards to try and keep ahead of you on the board. They're choosing to not play around Shadow word:Death because they want to be able to beat your buffed historian on the board, and they probably know you're not running SW:D because of the current "Big Mana Priest" deck that you're looking like at this point.
Your historian can't beat the wolf in combat, so for now it's about the future turns. You have the choice between playing Tar Creeper or Glimmeroot. In the video, you play Tar Creeper and then smack Historian into the wolf, killing it. Assuming you're not playing at random, this leads me to think one of two things:
1) You were playing around a second Mark of Y'Shaarj.
2) You forgot how Tar Creeper works.
The first choice is extremely questionable. The opponent has seen fewer than 10 cards by this point and played a Mark already. The odds of them having a second are low and, even if they did, you could react the following turn by attacking with your Historian then. Could they be playing Mark of the Wild? Unlikely, but not impossible. Still, the proactive attack was unnecessary and leaves you in the crucial state of having no minions on the board in a board-control war after the wolf trades for Tar Creeper.
If you forgot how Tar Creeper works then... Don't do that next time, I guess?
If I'm honest, I would have played Tar Creeper here as well, but I would have gone face with Historian. In my mind, the Creeper trades one for one and I'm about to start playing big dragons, so that'll carry the board. Reading over the thread, it was better to play Glimmeroot; as mentioned above, it's the more proactive play and it gives you more options. It'll still die to the wolf but you'll be up a card and still have access to the Taunt later, which would have handy given what happens next...
0-2-4: You play Twilight Drake here, but he's got a lot of work to do.
0-3-3: You play whichever 3 drop you didn't play last turn.
------Turn 4------
Your opponent plays Vicious Fledgling. They play a Dire Mole too but it's irrelevant. You draw Mind Control.
Aside from drawing Mind Control, which was bad luck, you're basically dead here. You've lost board control with your board control deck. Your opponent has a 3-drop which is going to take over the game and even though you make Twilight Drake this turn, it doesn't matter. You need to be able to deal with Fledgling now and that doesn't happen. I could keep going over the rest of the game play by play but Flappy Bird snowballs so hard that the impact of your plays don't really matter anymore. And your opponent has Savage Roar because obviously.
I hope this helps.
even the trade with the direwolf was correct to kill it next turn after possible another buff he did nothing wrong you just telling people they misplayed something even tough you cant play correct by yourself and in 65% case it would be a jade so the coin was correct
If he was playing against Jade then it was even more incorrect to coin than it would be against aggro. Jade's optimal turn 2 is playing Wild Growth, or more often they hero power and say go. If you don't draw another two drop, then you spent your coin for nothing because you're just passing on turn 2.
well you cant avoid getting outtempo by jade the only thing i didnt get the twilight mulligan its his keycard, stil the coin was correct to get more valuable minions it isnt that unusual that spitefull priest have sometimes a downtime where he cant use all his manacrystals i have it often on Turn 7
MasterP2k, you're talking rubbish or trolling; I'm guessing you're one of the salty ragers who blame all their losses on RNG, while making fundamental mistakes like these. OP cares about other people's opinion, since he asked for it with this thread...and, astonishingly for you, he accepted he made a mistake, and is, hopefully, gonna try and think twice about making it again. You can, however, keep playing your way, and then complain about "luck" etc.
You can't stop the signal.
i end the discuss here its a waste of time...
I want to thank you all, aspecially the people who have been constructive. like someone earler said, I have several opinions to review and that's indeed the type of feedback I was hoping for. I was hesitant to make this post at the start, but the majority have been great and have given me very trueful and amazing feedback! So Probable in the future I will make more some of these posts and mistake video's to share and hopefully I will get your feedback again.
a special thanks to :
Arcengal, maroon5five, AbusingKel, AUzg, retoxidi, batterystaple, Wingdude22, Natsu0Nii
You guys bring good spirit to the table :D
" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
You can't stop the signal.