Spiteful summoner priest is disgusting but it's cheap.. even cheaper than aggro decks like face hunter and paladin and it is quite strong so.. also warlocks finally got good cards this expansion so let they shine a bit.. i am more worried when raza rotates out (warlock counter)
Warlock is likely the best class this expansion, and the core cards will not rotate out for over a year. Hopefully another class will get some good cards to balance Warlock out a bit in the next expansion as Raza priest will lose 2 core cards and likely be a lower tier deck when they do.
To be fair, all OP is asking is why are only two archetypes being played?
There are "ONLY" two archetypes played in a single class? And THATS a problem??
I only remember classes playing 1 archetype and only few classes being truly viable. Now we have like 4 classes viable and several of them playing multiple archetypes and people still complain its the worst ever??
It only shows most people have the memory of a goldfish.
My guess is that this is the most diverse meta with the least amount of aggro HS has ever had. People seeing this meta back in the day of shamanstone, face hunter and pirate warrior would be thrilled. But there will always be something to complain about.
And my guess is that you couldn't possibly be more wrong.
Right now Void lord is used in 62.85% of warlock decks. Of those (& if they can afford it dust wise) they should all be trying to draw & cube that card. Dusk breaker slightly less so appearing only 44% of priest decks but honestly the other 64% ether haven't paid for one night in Karazhan to craft Netherspite historian or haven't won a game in over a month.
Also I totally admit Im salt salt salt, but even corridor creeper doesn't touch these two cards
Funny, I was thinking that with those percentages, you were /defending/ the cards. A class card appearing in half the decks doesn’t seem oppressive to me. Compare it to true cancer cards like patches and small time bucaneer pre-nerf in warrior... which weren’t even class cards... that’s cancer.
Demonlock has 65% winrate on metastats and voidlord is warping the meta to the point that everyone runs x2 spellbreakers.
If you don't think thats oppressive i don't know what is.
I really don't understand the HS community's desire to always want to nerf things, forgetting that if they do we'll just end up with the top tier deck that was around even more before the nerfed deck (in this case Raza Priest). The exact same thing happened when Raza Priest first rolled around, players wanted it nerfed forgetting that that was the deck that replaced the last rendition of Jade Druid. So sure, go ahead and nerf locks, hope you enjoy going back to a higher percentage of Raza Priest players.
I am genuinely surprised there are people commenting whose biggest issue with Warlock is Voidlord itself. It's a 9 mana card, and though I haven't been playing Hearthstone that long, Voidlord certainly doesn't seem overpowered for its cost. By far the most frustrating thing about Warlock for me is not Voidlord, its the turn 5 Skull of the Man'ari, then turn 6 use Carnivorous Cube + Dark Pact on whatever was summoned by the weapon.
A card like Dark Pact, to me, seems like a card where there is supposed to be a tradeoff, right? Kill one of your minions but gain a decent amount of health. But the way it works with Warlock currently is devastating. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned having an issue with it. That said, I don't think Warlock is broken or ridiculously overpowered, it just has a great deck right now, and I would be playing it myself if I had the dust.
It's also worth noting that it's entirely possible to beat Warlock without silence, Secret Mage and Spiteful Priest are both more than capable of doing it and both are cheap to play, so i'm not sure the argument that Voidlord is oppressive because every deck now must have Spellbreakers is a good argument.
I really don't understand the HS community's desire to always want to nerf things, forgetting that if they do we'll just end up with the top tier deck that was around even more before the nerfed deck (in this case Raza Priest). The exact same thing happened when Raza Priest first rolled around, players wanted it nerfed forgetting that that was the deck that replaced the last rendition of Jade Druid. So sure, go ahead and nerf locks, hope you enjoy going back to a higher percentage of Raza Priest players.
I firmly believe its just a bunch of salt. After a year of playing the game its always a top tier deck that some people cant win against that they want nerfed. Those calling for nerfs have a short memory and really dont understand that there will always be a hard to beat deck. If Blizzard nerfed every card necessary to make the all the decks even ( a hell of a lot of cards) the fun would be gone for most of the players. They really dont understand that the basis of the game is to make a top deck that wins more, and if it was all even, there would be no fun in it.
To be fair, all OP is asking is why are only two archetypes being played?
There are "ONLY" two archetypes played in a single class? And THATS a problem??
I only remember classes playing 1 archetype and only few classes being truly viable. Now we have like 4 classes viable and several of them playing multiple archetypes and people still complain its the worst ever??
It only shows most people have the memory of a goldfish.
My guess is that this is the most diverse meta with the least amount of aggro HS has ever had. People seeing this meta back in the day of shamanstone, face hunter and pirate warrior would be thrilled. But there will always be something to complain about.
it's not something to complain about it's who's complaining, f you checked the site during facehunter stone undertaker stone and PWstone ther ewould be multiple threads complaining about them in their respective meta in the first page, on a daily basis, and of course players that wanted longer games and had this cool legendaries they could not play because they were dead before those hit the board complained, now the scale has reversed but let's be honest here, complaints about cubelock in the forum and threads regarding and arguably less than a quarter than those about Face hunter, Pirate warrior and aggron/mid-range shamman back nin their prime.
Spiteful summoner priest is disgusting but it's cheap.. even cheaper than aggro decks like face hunter and paladin and it is quite strong so.. also warlocks finally got good cards this expansion so let they shine a bit.. i am more worried when raza rotates out (warlock counter)
I for one can’t wait for Raza to rotate out. OP and too easy to play.
Rank 15 & each player is only trying to cube lock his voidlord or is a priest with a poster of duskbreaker over his bed, Honestly the game is down to two types of people. Questions for the try hards playing these hearthpwn decks, is it awkward playing an opponent with the same deck as you every other game? or are these one trick decks that fun to play?
But seriously Duskbreaker should hit face & carnivores cube should negate death rattle upon consumption or carry over buffs so other classes can play the card. I understand agro was an issue for players that wanted to bash face late game for 32 damage after not playing a card for 7 turns but we didn't need to break the game to deal with it.
Edit: Spelling
I started playing Cube Lock a few days ago, having no idea it was a popular deck. I just needed a Warlock deck for a quest, so I went to HSReplay to find the Warlock deck with the highest win percentage so I could bang out 5 Warlock wins. The top 20-30 decks were all Zoolock, which is boring, so I kept scrolling until I found something called "Cube Lock." Having no clue what it was, I picked it and went about 5-5 with it, but I finished my quest.
I found it incredibly difficult and frustrating to play, with huge swings that can win games at the last minute, but also draws that leave you just hitting End Turn repeatedly with nothing to do. That said, it was fun and had lots of cool and weird combinations, so I made it my main deck for January. Now that I've learned how to play it, I'm around 25-15 with it, which isn't awesome but not bad either, especially considering that I'm hardly an elite player.
I rarely see other Cube Warlocks. I've maybe run into 2 or 3 others. Most of what I see are Summoner priests, Kelesath rogues, secret mage or jade druid here and there, and about 8,000,000 aggro Paladins. Probably 1/3 of all decks I play against are aggro Paladin. Rank range is 16-17.
Then I saw the Hearthpwn article the other day about Cube Lock and I realized this was actually a deck people were playing a lot of, which I thought was weird since I've never once gone up against it until the last few days, when I randomly found it. Now it's cancer already.
Many similar threads to this seem to at their core be complaining about net decking. I know it is frustrating to play against the same decks over and over, but until Blizzard changes ranked mode to not incentivize winning then it won’t ever change. You can’t expect the entire world to not act in a manner that is consistent with what their best interests are, ie winning as fast/much as possible. If the deck you’re playing is having trouble against these decks, then modify your deck to exploit those you commonly face. None of us plays this game in a vacuum and you can’t just assume the deck that you enjoy the most will be successful all the time. So until Blizzard makes some kind of change, players who want to play unique decks just need to know how to combat the meta.
You see the most diversity of decks at ranks 5, 10, and 15. That’s no coincidence because at the rank floors people are more willing to experiment when they don’t fear losing stars. I think Blizzard should make it so once you achieve a rank you can’t go back, so essentially every rank is a rank floor. This would allow players to play more random stuff without the fear of losing hours of their time. Also, the end of month rank reset is too severe. If you make legend you go all the way back to like rank 15. It should really be rank 10 at the most.
We need a huge overhaul to the ladder system. Blizzard needs to completely redesign how you 'rank up' and it needs to come down to what you use to play not just whether you win or not. People need to be actively discouraged from playing topdecks and aggro decks - just saying the rewards for winnning with these decks need to be smaller somehow, relatively.
Who wants to playing against cubelock endlessly for the next 6 months? Cause that is where we are headed once rotation hits. We've already been there recently with Jade Druid, and Pirate Warrior before that, it fking sucks. Blizzard need to put some serious work into this game, right now, the economy and the ladder need fixing desperately.
Many similar threads to this seem to at their core be complaining about net decking. I know it is frustrating to play against the same decks over and over, but until Blizzard changes ranked mode to not incentivize winning then it won’t ever change. You can’t expect the entire world to not act in a manner that is consistent with what their best interests are, ie winning as fast/much as possible. If the deck you’re playing is having trouble against these decks, then modify your deck to exploit those you commonly face. None of us plays this game in a vacuum and you can’t just assume the deck that you enjoy the most will be successful all the time. So until Blizzard makes some kind of change, players who want to play unique decks just need to know how to combat the meta.
You see the most diversity of decks at ranks 5, 10, and 15. That’s no coincidence because at the rank floors people are more willing to experiment when they don’t fear losing stars. I think Blizzard should make it so once you achieve a rank you can’t go back, so essentially every rank is a rank floor. This would allow players to play more random stuff without the fear of losing hours of their time. Also, the end of month rank reset is too severe. If you make legend you go all the way back to like rank 15. It should really be rank 10 at the most.
Netdecking is annoying but it's what Blizzard wants you to do from 20 to Legendary.
Random off-the-cuff idea to address it: leave the existing ladders alone an add a new type of "rotational" ladder that is structurally similar except:
(1) You can lose stars but not ranks
(2) You don't lose anything at the end of the month but you also don't get monthly ladder rewards until you hit Legendary (see below)
(3) You just keep advancing until you hit Legendary, at which point you get the card back and at month-end you'll get Legendary rank monthly ladder rewards and then reset to Rank 25 again to start over.
This isn't really a "ladder" I guess but it lets people who can't grind out 20-30 games/day get a shot at legendary eventually.
I don't play ladder a lot but it does really suck right now. Around half my matchups even at low ranking are the control type priest/warlock using DK heroes.
Every time i match with one i just feel like conceding right there rather than going through the inevitable loss that will take 10 min. Yeh i could go play them as well or play some super aggro deck but those being the options is lame and not fun.
Every class has auto-include cards (if you have the dust,) just like shadow visions and primordial glyph in mage.
I'm on rank 15 myself and I have met only one warlock, no priests, most of them are aggro decks (token druid, aggro paladin, murlocadin, zoo warlock). I understand these decks are frustrating to play against, but so was jade druid and we had to see that through. You can tech against them for now, but the meta will change drastically in a week or so when the nerf gets implimented.
Yes warlock is a safe deck to play because it has no changes, but without the swarm of aggro decks there will be a lot more possibility for a control meta (thief-quest priest, fatigue warrior, recruit infinite druid, exodia mage.) There is literally no point in complaining about how things are now when changes have already been made, and we're yet to see the result of them now.
I understand you're worried about priest and warlock being the only 'viable' classes, but I can assure you that aggro is dominating the ladder pre-patch BECAUSE of warlock and cube-lock takes skill to play it with a high win rate, it's arguably a lot more "fun" and "skilled" to play than a hunter who can win with top decks.
I'm playing one turn kill exodia just now, extremely fun :-) -
I think the problem is that there's too many cards which are just objectively bad. I get that these keep random effects in check but it also limits the number of decks we see each expansion. I don't blame people for net decking, I understand that people who play on a restricted budget or limited play time have needs and goals for the game that don't allow them to mess around with card trying to see what's good and what's bad. However, the random effects were never truly welcome to the degree they're at now anyway, and is barely an excuse for how terrible some cards are.
As long as only a handful of cards are strong "on their own" or insane with like a 1 card combo, you'll see auto-includes like this. You simply can't build decks that make efficient use out of everything. Shaman is a great example. They have so many cards that require too much setup, have crappy stats, and/or have negative synergy with other cards they'd like to have. Blizzard seems to be banking minions ahead of time for future expansion compatibility, but fail to grasp how frustrating it is to spend $50 for cards and get Moorabi and 2 avalanches wasting away in their library hoping and praying some day support cards will come out.
So TLDR: Too many cards which simply cannot amount to anything in the meta.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
If you are in your first year of playing please read this post.
Dust does not burn a hole in the jar. Be careful what you craft, especially before and right after a rotation.
I really don't understand the HS community's desire to always want to nerf things, forgetting that if they do we'll just end up with the top tier deck that was around even more before the nerfed deck (in this case Raza Priest). The exact same thing happened when Raza Priest first rolled around, players wanted it nerfed forgetting that that was the deck that replaced the last rendition of Jade Druid. So sure, go ahead and nerf locks, hope you enjoy going back to a higher percentage of Raza Priest players.
I am genuinely surprised there are people commenting whose biggest issue with Warlock is Voidlord itself. It's a 9 mana card, and though I haven't been playing Hearthstone that long, Voidlord certainly doesn't seem overpowered for its cost. By far the most frustrating thing about Warlock for me is not Voidlord, its the turn 5 Skull of the Man'ari, then turn 6 use Carnivorous Cube + Dark Pact on whatever was summoned by the weapon.
A card like Dark Pact, to me, seems like a card where there is supposed to be a tradeoff, right? Kill one of your minions but gain a decent amount of health. But the way it works with Warlock currently is devastating. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned having an issue with it. That said, I don't think Warlock is broken or ridiculously overpowered, it just has a great deck right now, and I would be playing it myself if I had the dust.
It's also worth noting that it's entirely possible to beat Warlock without silence, Secret Mage and Spiteful Priest are both more than capable of doing it and both are cheap to play, so i'm not sure the argument that Voidlord is oppressive because every deck now must have Spellbreakers is a good argument.
If you are in your first year of playing please read this post.
Dust does not burn a hole in the jar. Be careful what you craft, especially before and right after a rotation.
Every new archetype get a shitstorm for being cancerous or broken.
Spoiler: very few of them are...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Rank 8-7 was full of aggro decks yesterday's night. Only brainless Pala, rogue, hunt, and absolutely no warlocks or razakus.
μολὼν λαβέ
Many similar threads to this seem to at their core be complaining about net decking. I know it is frustrating to play against the same decks over and over, but until Blizzard changes ranked mode to not incentivize winning then it won’t ever change. You can’t expect the entire world to not act in a manner that is consistent with what their best interests are, ie winning as fast/much as possible. If the deck you’re playing is having trouble against these decks, then modify your deck to exploit those you commonly face. None of us plays this game in a vacuum and you can’t just assume the deck that you enjoy the most will be successful all the time. So until Blizzard makes some kind of change, players who want to play unique decks just need to know how to combat the meta.
You see the most diversity of decks at ranks 5, 10, and 15. That’s no coincidence because at the rank floors people are more willing to experiment when they don’t fear losing stars. I think Blizzard should make it so once you achieve a rank you can’t go back, so essentially every rank is a rank floor. This would allow players to play more random stuff without the fear of losing hours of their time. Also, the end of month rank reset is too severe. If you make legend you go all the way back to like rank 15. It should really be rank 10 at the most.
We need a huge overhaul to the ladder system. Blizzard needs to completely redesign how you 'rank up' and it needs to come down to what you use to play not just whether you win or not. People need to be actively discouraged from playing topdecks and aggro decks - just saying the rewards for winnning with these decks need to be smaller somehow, relatively.
Who wants to playing against cubelock endlessly for the next 6 months? Cause that is where we are headed once rotation hits. We've already been there recently with Jade Druid, and Pirate Warrior before that, it fking sucks. Blizzard need to put some serious work into this game, right now, the economy and the ladder need fixing desperately.
Netdecking is annoying but it's what Blizzard wants you to do from 20 to Legendary.
Random off-the-cuff idea to address it: leave the existing ladders alone an add a new type of "rotational" ladder that is structurally similar except:
(1) You can lose stars but not ranks
(2) You don't lose anything at the end of the month but you also don't get monthly ladder rewards until you hit Legendary (see below)
(3) You just keep advancing until you hit Legendary, at which point you get the card back and at month-end you'll get Legendary rank monthly ladder rewards and then reset to Rank 25 again to start over.
This isn't really a "ladder" I guess but it lets people who can't grind out 20-30 games/day get a shot at legendary eventually.
μολὼν λαβέ
I don't play ladder a lot but it does really suck right now.
Around half my matchups even at low ranking are the control type priest/warlock using DK heroes.
Every time i match with one i just feel like conceding right there rather than going through the inevitable loss that will take 10 min.
Yeh i could go play them as well or play some super aggro deck but those being the options is lame and not fun.
Which card do you guys consider best replacement for the soon to be unplayable Corridor Creeper in the Summoner Priest deck?
Top deck is cheat
Every class has auto-include cards (if you have the dust,) just like shadow visions and primordial glyph in mage.
I'm on rank 15 myself and I have met only one warlock, no priests, most of them are aggro decks (token druid, aggro paladin, murlocadin, zoo warlock). I understand these decks are frustrating to play against, but so was jade druid and we had to see that through. You can tech against them for now, but the meta will change drastically in a week or so when the nerf gets implimented.
Yes warlock is a safe deck to play because it has no changes, but without the swarm of aggro decks there will be a lot more possibility for a control meta (thief-quest priest, fatigue warrior, recruit infinite druid, exodia mage.) There is literally no point in complaining about how things are now when changes have already been made, and we're yet to see the result of them now.
I understand you're worried about priest and warlock being the only 'viable' classes, but I can assure you that aggro is dominating the ladder pre-patch BECAUSE of warlock and cube-lock takes skill to play it with a high win rate, it's arguably a lot more "fun" and "skilled" to play than a hunter who can win with top decks.
I'm playing one turn kill exodia just now, extremely fun :-) -
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I think the problem is that there's too many cards which are just objectively bad. I get that these keep random effects in check but it also limits the number of decks we see each expansion. I don't blame people for net decking, I understand that people who play on a restricted budget or limited play time have needs and goals for the game that don't allow them to mess around with card trying to see what's good and what's bad. However, the random effects were never truly welcome to the degree they're at now anyway, and is barely an excuse for how terrible some cards are.
As long as only a handful of cards are strong "on their own" or insane with like a 1 card combo, you'll see auto-includes like this. You simply can't build decks that make efficient use out of everything. Shaman is a great example. They have so many cards that require too much setup, have crappy stats, and/or have negative synergy with other cards they'd like to have. Blizzard seems to be banking minions ahead of time for future expansion compatibility, but fail to grasp how frustrating it is to spend $50 for cards and get Moorabi and 2 avalanches wasting away in their library hoping and praying some day support cards will come out.
So TLDR: Too many cards which simply cannot amount to anything in the meta.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!