I am a big fan of C'Thun decks since they are very affordable to play and I enjoy building up a big finisher. It was the first real type of deck I built and I have used it in my Druid ever since.
One of the big advantages of a C'Thun deck is the versatility of the low cost cards. Generally priced around the same mana (2, 3, 4) but have different powerful effects or quality stats for their cost (Disciple of C'Thun, C'Thun's Chosen). This makes getting to the end of the game easier since your win condition is a big C'Thun.
With Journey to Un'Goro, however, I am seeing the overall power level of cards increase substantially. I understand that with each new expansion you have to give players incentive to buy the packs (which only happens if the cards are better or more unique than the previous expansion). Despite this, I still see C'Thun decks as being a solid Tier 2 - Tier 3 deck that can hold its own.
Why are C'Thun decks going to continue to be powerful?
While the cards in Journey to Un'Goro are strong, I still don't think they compare to C'Thun cards in terms of stats and late game finishers. Ozruk is a card with incredible potential but is only useful if you played the right cards the previous turn. In addition, he's a single target. Twin Emperor Vek'lor has lower stats but is activated by playing the right cards on any of your previous turns and is split into two targets.
What about Stone Sentinel? Costs the same as Vek'lor but is split into 3 minions. The Sentinel and Vek'lor have the same total stats if they are both activated (8-12) BUT Vek'lor doesn't require you to play something the previous turn. If you top-deck Vek'lor in the late game he WILL activate!
I'm not arguing that C'Thun decks are the best type of deck out there (or will beat out all the new decks). What I am claiming is that C'Thun decks will be strong enough to compete with the power level of new cards and is still a good investment if you want to play a solid deck that doesn't cost too much.
The big issue is the meta: actually is too fast for any C'thun deck. You will simply die before being able to deploy the big guy. Maybe in Un'goro, with a slow on the meta (or that at last is what it seems) there will be more space for a tier 3 C'thun that can be played decently.
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For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
I play C'Thun Druid on my arena practice accounts (Asia & Americas), but I switched to Eggro on my EU main account, it just performs better (have no Aya or all the Jade cards on EU). On my arena accounts they do ok though, and I don't have Twin Emps on either of those.
C'Thun Priest and Warrior seem better to me, but both those will perform worse after Un'Goro I think since Brann and Mr. T (I pity the fool who doesn't reduce each cards cost by 1 mana at the end of each turn) rotate out, Mr. T is important for the Brann/Doomcaller combo and Brann is obviously vital for Triplet Emps/gaining 20 armour or health.
I only have Crazed Worshipper on my Asia account but that card is excellent.
C'Thun Warrior is playable on certain parts of the ladder, even now. But every other class seems to be hopelessly outmatched by a big chunk of the current meta. Will that change when the meta shifts? Hard to say, but I can't imagine the Warrior version getting weaker. In fact, some of the new cards (Tar Creeper, Elise the Trailblazer) might improve it more than you would expect!
C'Thun decks have the issue of constantly being average and never being particularly strong at any time. They're too slow to stop aggro and without Brann/Doomcaller they're definitely not going to be able to outlast most Control decks if they don't have control mechanics themselves.
If the game slows down enough for Control Warrior to be played again, C'Thun Control Warrior will be just fine to play. Druid will be good once Reno rotates out and Midrange decks can be viable again. The rest of the classes are kinda weak and probably won't make it too far.
Fast Meta is problem, Jades are problem, Rotating some cards are problem (Especially Brann Bronzebeard) there are too much problems for C'Thun. I love to play too much C'Thuns with Rogue and love Rogue's C'thun mechanics. I hope C'Thun is more playable with new standard year. (Wherever it is)
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
C'Thun control warrior is definitely not viable at the moment (which is why I only play it in wild). It just gets stomped by either Jades or fast aggro.
The big issue is the meta: actually is too fast for any C'thun deck. You will simply die before being able to deploy the big guy. Maybe in Un'goro, with a slow on the meta (or that at last is what it seems) there will be more space for a tier 3 C'thun that can be played decently.
C'thun decks usually do good against Aggro at least warrior c'thun does. It's jades and renolocks that c'thun can't beat
You need a decent opening hand for C'Thun warrior to stand a chance, there are too many high cost cards in the deck. If you don't have fiery war axe or ravaging ghoul before you can play your first taunt it's gg.
The best C'Thun deck if aggro don't dominate is rogue, never see play because aggro decks kill you in turn 5 and rogue lacks healing and mass removal, in a midrange/control meta the deck is awesome.
The best C'Thun deck if aggro don't dominate is rogue, never see play because aggro decks kill you in turn 5 and rogue lacks healing and mass removal, in a midrange/control meta the deck is awesome.
This is actually just what I was eyeballing the other day. The new Vilespine Slayer is a game-changer for slower Rogue decks that want to put on slight pressure and fight for board, which is what C'Thun decks typically do.
C'thun can even kill the Jades on board, no hope for C'thun. Jade Golens are too opressive for any no aggro deck.
This is the problem I've found. Aggro you can tech against, depending on the class. It's just that there's no payoff for reaching C'Thun. A 12/12 for 10 mana that deals 12 random damage is actually sub-par against Jades. And if you want burst face damage, there always seems to be better ways with Leeroy Jenkins.
If more midrange-style play becomes the norm, and it does not involve Jades, then I could see C'Thun being reasonable simply because he can remove enemy value and require an answer. It's the same reason Ragnaros the Firelord is devastating in midrange metas.
I think they will be average to poor. However, I am happy about this because C'Thun decks are my least favourite in any expansion so far. I detested C'Thun from day 1. Whoever created that idea needs a large dose of strychnine.
Compared to Jade Druid though? There are also 3 matchups which require a lot of decision making (Mage with polymorph, Shaman with Hex, Priest with Entomb) where you can only really play C'Thun if you guarantee lethal.
Even if we assume the metagame will return to a state of equilibrium once Un'goro hits (where Aggro, Midrange, and Control keep each other in check), this is going to be tough to call. A lot of what gave C'Thun its power was the significant amount of Battlecry effects. The loss of Brann Bronzebeard will definitely affect C'Thun decks significantly, but I do think that, despite the fact that no cards are coming out that directly buff C'Thun decks, classes are getting the tools they need to be viable overall. It's entirely possible that C'Thun decks will see a return because the classes themselves will have enough tools to support having C'Thun cards.
Case in point, Priest. The reason why C'Thun Priest never took off was because it lost so much of what it needed in the Standard format. It went until Gadgetzan without an adequate board clear, and no early game to speak of besides the Neutral C'thun cards meant that Hooded Acolyte and Twilight Darkmender were either not ready when you needed them, or never had what it needed to make much of an impact anyway.
Twilight Darkmender in particular is exactly the wrong size for the kind of effect it has, since you almost never needed that much healing that early on, the mana cost was too awkward to fit into turns in the late game when you actually needed the heal. Hooded Acolyte was bad because Priest had no early game, so you often never had a good target to heal or a great way to set up a massive burst heal since you needed Circle of Healing to pair with exactly Archenai Soulpriest so the opponent's board wouldn't murder you. Due to these two problems, Twin Emperor Vek'lor was also almost never ready by turn 7, or the opponent was so far ahead that they were just bowled over.
As if that wasn't enough, the meta was not kind to it either. Karazhan brought the joys of Shamanstone to the forefront of the meta, and Priest was never quite able to jump on the Yogg train before it was nerfed. Even when Priest finally got Dragonfire Potion in MSoG, Priest still did not have the early game necessary to support C'thun cards.
However, I believe that will all change in Un'Goro. Why? Two reasons. The first is that the meta will finally straighten itself out with the lost of Brann Bronzebeard, Azure Drake, and the Pirate counters that have been introduced. Early game aggression can be more easily halted, and the loss of Brann and AD mean that Jade decks will not have nearly as much flexibility that its had in terms of filling the board extremely quickly turn after turn.
The second reason is that with cards like Mana Geode, Crystalline Oracle, Mirage Caller, and Curious Glimmeroot, Priest is finally getting what it needs: early game that plays to its strengths. With the advent of these early game cards, combined with what Priest acquired with MSoG, Priest might finally have the tools it needs to support a proper C'Thun deck. Or any non-Dragon deck, for that matter.
Honestly I think people seem to forget one of the reasons C'Thun is so poor (similar to N'Zoth) is because Kazakus is easy to activate. That's not going to be the case post-rotation, and your board all of a sudden isn't going to constantly be mass-Polymorphed.
Who knows, maybe C'thun losing Brann itself and stuff like Aggro Warrior are too fast for it... but honestly it's quite possible that it comes back since things like C'Thun Warrior were very good before every deck in the meta except for the aggressive ones had reliable ways to outvalue it. In a matchup with Jade it should probably actually do quite well since it can always build to have more Midrange threats, and against Aggro something like C'Thun Warrior is just going to do Warrior things and be alright.
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Fast Meta is problem, Jades are problem, Rotating some cards are problem (Especially Brann Bronzebeard) there are too much problems for C'Thun. I love to play too much C'Thuns with Rogue and love Rogue's C'thun mechanics. I hope C'Thun is more playable with new standard year. (Wherever it is)
I have a Paladin C'Thun deck with a very high winrate against Jade Druids (granted I am at rank 15, but still)
I already said it is a problem, I didn't say it is imposible to beat them. Yea you can win against Jad Druids but mostly if you have great draws and mostly even you can't draw C'thun, their jades are about 5/5 between 9/9 and mostly absorbs C'thun's Battlecry.
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Fast Meta is problem, Jades are problem, Rotating some cards are problem (Especially Brann Bronzebeard) there are too much problems for C'Thun. I love to play too much C'Thuns with Rogue and love Rogue's C'thun mechanics. I hope C'Thun is more playable with new standard year. (Wherever it is)
I have a Paladin C'Thun deck with a very high winrate against Jade Druids (granted I am at rank 15, but still)
I already said it is a problem, I didn't say it is imposible to beat them. Yea you can win against Jad Druids but mostly if you have great draws and mostly even you can't draw C'thun, their jades are about 5/5 between 9/9 and mostly absorbs C'thun's Battlecry.
Not at all. I have had games against Jade Druids, run almost to fatique that I still won. The thing is, that in a Handbuff, C'Thun deck everything buffs something (or debuffs), and in my experiense the Druid is often behind from turn 1, trying to control the board while you simply hit face where it hurts. With C'Thun in he mix, the Druid player seems to go to very extreme lenghts to ensure they dont get too low on health (in case of a lucky C'Thun), and I find them doing expensive trades just to keep my side of the board in somewhat control.
GetAway Kodo is a great C'Thun combo piece and noone seems to see it comming. So let them smash thier Jades into my big bad C'Thun, its rare that I care.
yeah, Getaway Kodo is also great with N'zoth and tirion against jade druid. It seems like Getaway Kodo is countering Jade Druid alone and only we know that truth :P
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
We obviously haven't seen all the cards yet, but control warrior is losing Justicar which does mean you have less options for armor gain which ancient shieldbearer certainly gives.
The big issue is the meta: actually is too fast for any C'thun deck. You will simply die before being able to deploy the big guy. Maybe in Un'goro, with a slow on the meta (or that at last is what it seems) there will be more space for a tier 3 C'thun that can be played decently.
wrong i play evolve cthun and maintain rank 10 although not being the best player it has good control both in the early and late game. unless your opponent has more than 3 to 4 hard board removals like twisting nether it is an instant concede. dopplegangster along with and other stuff and evolve is great, cthun is just there to help put the nail in the coffin
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Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─
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Hi all,
I am a big fan of C'Thun decks since they are very affordable to play and I enjoy building up a big finisher. It was the first real type of deck I built and I have used it in my Druid ever since.
One of the big advantages of a C'Thun deck is the versatility of the low cost cards. Generally priced around the same mana (2, 3, 4) but have different powerful effects or quality stats for their cost (Disciple of C'Thun, C'Thun's Chosen). This makes getting to the end of the game easier since your win condition is a big C'Thun.
With Journey to Un'Goro, however, I am seeing the overall power level of cards increase substantially. I understand that with each new expansion you have to give players incentive to buy the packs (which only happens if the cards are better or more unique than the previous expansion). Despite this, I still see C'Thun decks as being a solid Tier 2 - Tier 3 deck that can hold its own.
Why are C'Thun decks going to continue to be powerful?
While the cards in Journey to Un'Goro are strong, I still don't think they compare to C'Thun cards in terms of stats and late game finishers. Ozruk is a card with incredible potential but is only useful if you played the right cards the previous turn. In addition, he's a single target. Twin Emperor Vek'lor has lower stats but is activated by playing the right cards on any of your previous turns and is split into two targets.
What about Stone Sentinel? Costs the same as Vek'lor but is split into 3 minions. The Sentinel and Vek'lor have the same total stats if they are both activated (8-12) BUT Vek'lor doesn't require you to play something the previous turn. If you top-deck Vek'lor in the late game he WILL activate!
I'm not arguing that C'Thun decks are the best type of deck out there (or will beat out all the new decks). What I am claiming is that C'Thun decks will be strong enough to compete with the power level of new cards and is still a good investment if you want to play a solid deck that doesn't cost too much.
The big issue is the meta: actually is too fast for any C'thun deck. You will simply die before being able to deploy the big guy. Maybe in Un'goro, with a slow on the meta (or that at last is what it seems) there will be more space for a tier 3 C'thun that can be played decently.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
I play C'Thun Druid on my arena practice accounts (Asia & Americas), but I switched to Eggro on my EU main account, it just performs better (have no Aya or all the Jade cards on EU). On my arena accounts they do ok though, and I don't have Twin Emps on either of those.
C'Thun Priest and Warrior seem better to me, but both those will perform worse after Un'Goro I think since Brann and Mr. T (I pity the fool who doesn't reduce each cards cost by 1 mana at the end of each turn) rotate out, Mr. T is important for the Brann/Doomcaller combo and Brann is obviously vital for Triplet Emps/gaining 20 armour or health.
I only have Crazed Worshipper on my Asia account but that card is excellent.
C'Thun Warrior is playable on certain parts of the ladder, even now. But every other class seems to be hopelessly outmatched by a big chunk of the current meta. Will that change when the meta shifts? Hard to say, but I can't imagine the Warrior version getting weaker. In fact, some of the new cards (Tar Creeper, Elise the Trailblazer) might improve it more than you would expect!
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
C'Thun decks have the issue of constantly being average and never being particularly strong at any time. They're too slow to stop aggro and without Brann/Doomcaller they're definitely not going to be able to outlast most Control decks if they don't have control mechanics themselves.
If the game slows down enough for Control Warrior to be played again, C'Thun Control Warrior will be just fine to play. Druid will be good once Reno rotates out and Midrange decks can be viable again. The rest of the classes are kinda weak and probably won't make it too far.
Fast Meta is problem, Jades are problem, Rotating some cards are problem (Especially Brann Bronzebeard) there are too much problems for C'Thun. I love to play too much C'Thuns with Rogue and love Rogue's C'thun mechanics. I hope C'Thun is more playable with new standard year. (Wherever it is)
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
C'Thun control warrior is definitely not viable at the moment (which is why I only play it in wild). It just gets stomped by either Jades or fast aggro.
You need a decent opening hand for C'Thun warrior to stand a chance, there are too many high cost cards in the deck. If you don't have fiery war axe or ravaging ghoul before you can play your first taunt it's gg.
C'thun can even kill the Jades on board, no hope for C'thun. Jade Golens are too opressive for any no aggro deck.
My magic will tear you apart!
The best C'Thun deck if aggro don't dominate is rogue, never see play because aggro decks kill you in turn 5 and rogue lacks healing and mass removal, in a midrange/control meta the deck is awesome.
Rogue deck is a lot more expensive though since the needed cards are epic rather than rare.
Even if we assume the metagame will return to a state of equilibrium once Un'goro hits (where Aggro, Midrange, and Control keep each other in check), this is going to be tough to call. A lot of what gave C'Thun its power was the significant amount of Battlecry effects. The loss of Brann Bronzebeard will definitely affect C'Thun decks significantly, but I do think that, despite the fact that no cards are coming out that directly buff C'Thun decks, classes are getting the tools they need to be viable overall. It's entirely possible that C'Thun decks will see a return because the classes themselves will have enough tools to support having C'Thun cards.
Case in point, Priest. The reason why C'Thun Priest never took off was because it lost so much of what it needed in the Standard format. It went until Gadgetzan without an adequate board clear, and no early game to speak of besides the Neutral C'thun cards meant that Hooded Acolyte and Twilight Darkmender were either not ready when you needed them, or never had what it needed to make much of an impact anyway.
Twilight Darkmender in particular is exactly the wrong size for the kind of effect it has, since you almost never needed that much healing that early on, the mana cost was too awkward to fit into turns in the late game when you actually needed the heal. Hooded Acolyte was bad because Priest had no early game, so you often never had a good target to heal or a great way to set up a massive burst heal since you needed Circle of Healing to pair with exactly Archenai Soulpriest so the opponent's board wouldn't murder you. Due to these two problems, Twin Emperor Vek'lor was also almost never ready by turn 7, or the opponent was so far ahead that they were just bowled over.
As if that wasn't enough, the meta was not kind to it either. Karazhan brought the joys of Shamanstone to the forefront of the meta, and Priest was never quite able to jump on the Yogg train before it was nerfed. Even when Priest finally got Dragonfire Potion in MSoG, Priest still did not have the early game necessary to support C'thun cards.
However, I believe that will all change in Un'Goro. Why? Two reasons. The first is that the meta will finally straighten itself out with the lost of Brann Bronzebeard, Azure Drake, and the Pirate counters that have been introduced. Early game aggression can be more easily halted, and the loss of Brann and AD mean that Jade decks will not have nearly as much flexibility that its had in terms of filling the board extremely quickly turn after turn.
The second reason is that with cards like Mana Geode, Crystalline Oracle, Mirage Caller, and Curious Glimmeroot, Priest is finally getting what it needs: early game that plays to its strengths. With the advent of these early game cards, combined with what Priest acquired with MSoG, Priest might finally have the tools it needs to support a proper C'Thun deck. Or any non-Dragon deck, for that matter.
Honestly I think people seem to forget one of the reasons C'Thun is so poor (similar to N'Zoth) is because Kazakus is easy to activate. That's not going to be the case post-rotation, and your board all of a sudden isn't going to constantly be mass-Polymorphed.
Who knows, maybe C'thun losing Brann itself and stuff like Aggro Warrior are too fast for it... but honestly it's quite possible that it comes back since things like C'Thun Warrior were very good before every deck in the meta except for the aggressive ones had reliable ways to outvalue it. In a matchup with Jade it should probably actually do quite well since it can always build to have more Midrange threats, and against Aggro something like C'Thun Warrior is just going to do Warrior things and be alright.
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
We obviously haven't seen all the cards yet, but control warrior is losing Justicar which does mean you have less options for armor gain which ancient shieldbearer certainly gives.
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─