meta is fast and aggro friendly, players who like this and like to play aggro don't see any problems there...we have already seen renopriest and jade druid fall od the meta because of the fast decks...had fun matchups mostly with renomage and mostly in casual, in ladder you are forced to play fast decks or renolock to be able to do something...
In the end Control Warrior is dead, Tempo Mage is dead, the last Paladins and Hunters are dead, just Jade Druid is playable and Warlock is also just Reno now... Thats not healthy! New deck yes but we have the same deck over and over.
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"... but not less than (1)" is needed now more than ever!
meta is actually garbage. you have two choices - aggro face bullshit or reno. flip a coin - if you draw reno you win, if not you don't. probably the worst meta ive ever seen. alternately, jade druid which is unbeatable.
Paladin and Hunter are basically non existent and that's because of their bad basic and classic set of cards . Blizzard should really consider buffing some unplayable classic cards to increase diversity
Hunter, bad classic set? What?
Hunter got a great classic set, among one of the best. They just got outvalued this expansion and being a strong class since beta i cant see the problem. I for one is happy to finaly see a meta where Hunter arent among the top dogs
Lets' see about that: hunter has
- no great early game (bow is too slow vs win axe, the 1 drops are meah )
- no card draw . (since buzzard nerf)
- no AOE (expect UTH that without combo is worse than arcane explosion and explosive trap that can be easy to play around)
- no Heal
- no Taunt (except a random Misha or a beast + HM combo)
- no great late game (King Krush is Trash)
the only card that is above avrage in Hunter is Savanah Highmane . That's all .
The only part of the metagame that I am worried about is the state of Paladin and Hunter.
Paladin has had a rough go for a few months. Although I think handbuff was the worst of the 3 gang mechanics, I think the "buff all" mechanic in Paladin is the strongest. But we haven't figured out how to best use these tools yet.
Hunter on the other hand apparently got much weaker tools than we realized. The monsters seemed the best, but the buffs the monsters need appear to be the worst. I think there would need to be a legitimate metagame shift for hunter to find a place.
Some class needs to be the worst, but Hunter at the moment feels like old priest. Almost unplayable.
Like... for example you have one Legendary that's used in just about every aggro deck including Miracle Rogue. The only way to play control is to use Reno variants. This is much less flexible than the Old Gods meta where there were Nzoth paladins, Cthun classes, Reno, Yogg decks. For aggro there were aggro shaman and zoo, which are classes focused on early board control before smorc. Now we have "top" builds that absolutely don't care about board control whatsoever (which is completely contradictory to HS's overall philosophy that Blizzard's been trying to create).
So... healthy? Sure? I guess?
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meta is actually garbage. you have two choices - aggro face bullshit or reno. flip a coin - if you draw reno you win, if not you don't. probably the worst meta ive ever seen. alternately, jade druid which is unbeatable.
Um acksually, you only get one choice, because all decks in Hearthstone are just piles of cards. THEY"RELITERALLY ALL THE SAME!!!11!! WAKE UP SHEEPLE
All I hear on this site is complaints. And I agree, pirate warrior can get a lucky start and run you over no matter what you do. But that's what an aggro deck is, and they are essential to a healthy meta. For a meta to be fun and varied, there need to be top-tier Aggro, Midrange, Control, and Combo decks. And right now, we have all that!
According to Tempostorm, the top five meta decks right now are: Aggro Shaman, Renolock, Miracle Rogue, Pirate Warrior, and Midrange Shaman. In my opinion, Miracle Druid and Dragon Priest are also strong. Using just these 7 strong decks, we can see that the meta is in a good state.
Aggro: Aggro Shaman, Pirate Warrior.
Midrange: Hand Buff Paladin, Midrange Shaman.
Control: Renolock.
Combo: Miracle Rogue, Miracle Druid.
I enjoy many of my matches on the ladder, and even if the Pirate Warrior matchup seems unwinnable sometimes, other times they run out of steam (this is when I'm playing Miracle Druid and Jade Shaman). I maintain back-and-forth matches with other midrange and combo decks, while sometimes losing to control.
The evidence I just provided refutes the claim that the meta is "aggro-dominated" or "lacks diversity." Post counterarguments in the thread. Stay polite please!
The meta is healthy? Yes that is what everybody have been told since beta. In the era of facehunter the meta was healthy. Then we had Mech Mage: and the meta was healthy. And then there was Patron Warrior, Secret Paladin, Aggro Shaman, midrange Shaman, Zoolock, I may have forgotten some OP/race deck: and still the meta was healthy. And now we have Pirates....and the meta is healthy still......
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The OP plays pirate warrior obviously. He thinks hand buff paladin is a good deck too... hand buff paladin is one of the worst decks ever made. It's for new players who say omg my cool Ragnaros Lightlord I opened is a 12/12 now, that's insane, not understanding that a 12/12 is usually pretty awful and two azure drakes are better vs almost anyone.
Wow, so many QQers out there. This is a much better meta than any point post-WoG. There is a full diversity of viable archetypes and a reasonable diversity of class representation (sorry Paladin and Hunter...).
The existence of aggro for the first time since the ONiK balance changes is what has made this possible - it gives control a winnable match-up while suppressing Shaman, which would otherwise still be strangling the meta.
All of the whiners can keep going on about "braindead" "cancer" aggro, although they would be better served by learning to play.
Wow, so many QQers out there. This is a much better meta than any point post-WoG. There is a full diversity of viable archetypes and a reasonable diversity of class representation (sorry Paladin and Hunter...).
The existence of aggro for the first time since the ONiK balance changes is what has made this possible - it gives control a winnable match-up while suppressing Shaman, which would otherwise still be strangling the meta.
All of the whiners can keep going on about "braindead" "cancer" aggro, although they would be better served by learning to play.
This. Old Gods was a good meta I think, but it felt lopsided (Warrior got so many good decks... other people not so much). ONiK fixed a few things like Druid, but aggro was still pretty dead overall with the exception of Facehunter being marginally okay. MSoG has essentially fixed Priest without completely breaking it, fixed Aggro/Midrange/Control/Combo so each archetype had some truly frightening tools, and left Paladin with at least an interesting deck to build off of that was minion-centric again. Hunter got interesting stuff but is still in a bad spot I think, mainly because the Facehunter variant is just a worse version of the Pirate decks and Midrange gets eaten alive by them; this might just need a meta shift to no longer be a problem, but I think overall there are just better Aggro/Midrange options available currently.
Generally it seems like people are just sore losers. Like sure, losing isn't fun (and losing on turn 5 not being fun is certainly arguable!)... but that should come with analysis of why you lost, what you can change, and where you could make improvements. It shouldn't come with a kneejerk reaction to try and bitch about it until it changes to suit you.
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Both Patches the Pirate and Jade Idol are very nicely designed cards. Once again as I mentioned before having cards or hell even decks you don't like is fine and its a subjecitve opinion... but, obectively - both of the cards you just listed are very nicely designed cards. So... can't really say too much other than, don't play on the ranked ladder if you don't like it?
The Jade Golem mechanic is fine. Or do you have an actual counterargument against it because once again, if you just don't like the card then don't play on the ladder or play wild or something along those lines since the ranked ladder is where you'll encounter decks utalizing the mechanics of the game.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Patches the Pirate and Jade Idolbeing very nicely designed. That said, I can handle Patches the Pirate. Whilst I find the idea of a card that doesn't have to be drawn and has instant early game impact, as well as being a Pirate extremely annoying, he is manageable. Jade Idol however is a different kettle of fish. It takes the meta to a place where not only are you punished against aggro if you don't draw the right cards to deal with threats early game, but you also have to be able to finish off Druids before they spawn endless Jade Golem in late game. Fatigue has always been a risk for Miracle decks that gives you a chance to win if you can survive long enough, but there is no surviving against Jade Idol, it is just neverending. All in a convenient 1 mana "choose one" spell that couldn't work better with Druid. It's just too much for one card.
I'm sorry if I come across as just another whiny casual who cant adapt to new metas, but no other card in the history of hearthstone has had the effect on the way decks are designed than Jade Idol has. And with ultra aggressive decks being it's main counter, a kind of deck which I find neither challenging or fun to play/play against, this meta has boiled down to a game of Reno praying, turn 5 kills and unstoppable jade armies
My 2 cents on these hot topic cards:
Patches turned out to be too good, he enables better trades from turn 1+, smaller drawlist, more reliable pirate synergy. think this card would be way less frustrating but still very powerful if you removed "charge"
Jade Idol Frustrating card for many control decks to run into. I don't think control decks really needed such a hard counter when they have reasonable enough odds of losing to aggro regardless of deck composition. I was honestly interested to see another infinite value card in HS after Moroes, but they went WAY overboard imo
Patches might have been too strong, though I'm less annoyed at his power level than how the Pirate package finds its way into random lists (like Miracle Rogue). Overall I think if either that or Small-time Buccaneer gets nerfed, that would ultimately be the reason why.
Jade Druid is basically still the most overrated deck on Hearthpwn, and odds are will be a tiny portion of the meta. The "infinite value" is absolutely not gamebreaking, because anything resembling early pressure just causes them to fold; it certainly will remain pretty favored against most Control decks, but even then it's no more a hard counter than Control Warrior was to Midrange Shaman (which was 60/40 I believe). If all you're trying to do is out-value your opponent you'll lose, but most Control decks have a way to apply pressure over the course of the game.
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This game will never be healthy as long curve stone exists 24/7. Paches would be balanced if you not created small-time bucaneer. To bad Blizzard had to make it OP as fuck.
I agree that the meta is very healthy, and would also add control Warrior to the control list. It isn't getting much attention, because most people are obsessed with pirate Warrior, but I consider it a tier 1 or 2 deck right now. There isn't a bad matchup.
I agree that the meta is very healthy, and would also add control Warrior to the control list. It isn't getting much attention, because most people are obsessed with pirate Warrior, but I consider it a tier 1 or 2 deck right now. There isn't a bad matchup.
Yeah, the meta is quite nice actually. Although I'd prefer a tad slower one, but I don't mind it at all.
meta is fast and aggro friendly, players who like this and like to play aggro don't see any problems there...we have already seen renopriest and jade druid fall od the meta because of the fast decks...had fun matchups mostly with renomage and mostly in casual, in ladder you are forced to play fast decks or renolock to be able to do something...
Healthy?
Rouge: Aggro or Miracle
Druid: Jade
Warrior: Aggro
Warlock: Reno
Priest: maybe Reno or Dragon
Hunter: nope
Paladin: nope
Mage: Reno loses to Warlock so also nope
Shaman: Jade/Midrange
In the end Control Warrior is dead, Tempo Mage is dead, the last Paladins and Hunters are dead, just Jade Druid is playable and Warlock is also just Reno now... Thats not healthy! New deck yes but we have the same deck over and over.
"... but not less than (1)" is needed now more than ever!
meta is actually garbage. you have two choices - aggro face bullshit or reno. flip a coin - if you draw reno you win, if not you don't. probably the worst meta ive ever seen. alternately, jade druid which is unbeatable.
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The only part of the metagame that I am worried about is the state of Paladin and Hunter.
Paladin has had a rough go for a few months. Although I think handbuff was the worst of the 3 gang mechanics, I think the "buff all" mechanic in Paladin is the strongest. But we haven't figured out how to best use these tools yet.
Hunter on the other hand apparently got much weaker tools than we realized. The monsters seemed the best, but the buffs the monsters need appear to be the worst. I think there would need to be a legitimate metagame shift for hunter to find a place.
Some class needs to be the worst, but Hunter at the moment feels like old priest. Almost unplayable.
Depends how you define healthy.
Like... for example you have one Legendary that's used in just about every aggro deck including Miracle Rogue. The only way to play control is to use Reno variants. This is much less flexible than the Old Gods meta where there were Nzoth paladins, Cthun classes, Reno, Yogg decks. For aggro there were aggro shaman and zoo, which are classes focused on early board control before smorc. Now we have "top" builds that absolutely don't care about board control whatsoever (which is completely contradictory to HS's overall philosophy that Blizzard's been trying to create).
So... healthy? Sure? I guess?
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
The OP plays pirate warrior obviously. He thinks hand buff paladin is a good deck too... hand buff paladin is one of the worst decks ever made. It's for new players who say omg my cool Ragnaros Lightlord I opened is a 12/12 now, that's insane, not understanding that a 12/12 is usually pretty awful and two azure drakes are better vs almost anyone.
Wow, so many QQers out there. This is a much better meta than any point post-WoG. There is a full diversity of viable archetypes and a reasonable diversity of class representation (sorry Paladin and Hunter...).
The existence of aggro for the first time since the ONiK balance changes is what has made this possible - it gives control a winnable match-up while suppressing Shaman, which would otherwise still be strangling the meta.
All of the whiners can keep going on about "braindead" "cancer" aggro, although they would be better served by learning to play.
Hahahha healthy... Only if you are loser playing one of cancers
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Patches might have been too strong, though I'm less annoyed at his power level than how the Pirate package finds its way into random lists (like Miracle Rogue). Overall I think if either that or Small-time Buccaneer gets nerfed, that would ultimately be the reason why.
Jade Druid is basically still the most overrated deck on Hearthpwn, and odds are will be a tiny portion of the meta. The "infinite value" is absolutely not gamebreaking, because anything resembling early pressure just causes them to fold; it certainly will remain pretty favored against most Control decks, but even then it's no more a hard counter than Control Warrior was to Midrange Shaman (which was 60/40 I believe). If all you're trying to do is out-value your opponent you'll lose, but most Control decks have a way to apply pressure over the course of the game.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
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This game will never be healthy as long curve stone exists 24/7. Paches would be balanced if you not created small-time bucaneer. To bad Blizzard had to make it OP as fuck.
And renolock is only a tier 2 deck don't talk like it is a tier one deck
I agree that the meta is very healthy, and would also add control Warrior to the control list. It isn't getting much attention, because most people are obsessed with pirate Warrior, but I consider it a tier 1 or 2 deck right now. There isn't a bad matchup.
For fuck sake Meta is still shit even worse than before