This idea was before release and is no longer being discussed.
How I can imagine a reward system that doesn't force people to Dungeon Run:
DISCLAIMER: Blizzard would never go through the effort to actually create a points system. I would, Blizzard. I'll do it...
After each run, players gain Run Points. These are not a currency, and can be calculated from many variables:
The difficulty of the bosses; Harder the boss, more points for defeating it.
The value of the deck; Having a Flamestrike is worth a low amount of points while utilizing Demented Frostcaller can be worth more. The points per card will have to be really low, like 1, 2, or 3 points, as the longer you play the run, the more cards you have, and it's challenging to not scale exponentially. The points might have to be 0, 1, or 2. This idea, while sounding fair when coming up with it, did get counter-intuitive as folks mentioned later on. This just causes players to pick not-so-good cards to achieve more points. Not the goal of my points system.
The value of the passive chosen; Doubling your starting health could be all your warlock deck needs to never lose the game. Some passives will have more or less points.
The value of the unique cards chosen; Same thing with Pyroblasting Randomly until someone dies. That one specifically may be worth a little more points than a few others, since it could kill you, but its also 10 mana "End the Game." which feels like you didn't do anything to actually end the game.
The number of bosses defeated. This one is just a bonus reward for getting past 4 and 8. Off the top of my head, 15 points for getting past 4 and 40 points for defeating all 8.
The class you used could have a point variable: Mages may be more successful (at everything) than, for example, paladins. This could be an alternative to having every single card be worth points -- instead, just make the classes worth points? Up to implementation.
Once you're done with your run, you're awarded a total sum of the variables above as "Run Points." This is not a currency. THESE DO NOT STACK. If you were to play another Dungeon Run, you'll keep the Dungeon Run with the MOST Run Points (for example, you DR and make 168 points. Then you DR and make 145 points. You still have 168 on record. Then you DR and bank 202 points. Now you have 202 Run Points). If the points were to stack, then the only thing determining the Run Points Leaderboard would be who can get more games in, instead of who actually does better in the Run.
At the end of 7 days, the Leaderboard is recorded. It is possible to look back on all Leaderboards to have existed just to see the standings in the past. At this time, each player when they log in will get a reward based on their placement:
Placed between 5000 and 2001 ~=~ Arena 2 wins.
Placed between 2000 and 501 ~=~ Arena 4 wins.
Placed between 500 and 101 ~=~ Arena 6 wins.
Placed between 100 and 4th ~=~ Arena 8 wins.
Placed at 3rd or 2nd ~=~ Arena 10 wins.
Placed at 1st ~=~ Arena 12 wins.
What I believe this hopefully balanced system will do is encourage players to continousouly do Dungeon Runs at least once a week. This will not force players to ONLY do Dungeon Runs because players with more Run Points will have a tougher time getting a better score. If you want to keep running for the fun of it, no one will stop you. This system will not reward contstant play but simply your best play, and it wont reward it immediately, so you have to be patient.
To counteract this system, they probably could make Dungeon Runs cost 150 gold per week. This is because Arena costs 150 gold per attempt and immediately rewards you with similar as the above. Making DRs cost 150 per week would enable Blizzard to feel like they got their money's worth for giving rewards every week, AND it'll allow players to pay their one instance of 150 for infinite replay-ability that week.
Obviously some numbers can change, and everyone likes having points in the thousands or 10 thousands, so its possible to just go crazy and multiply everything by 10, just so people can feel like their 8 win flawless game wasn't worth "only 150 points."
This is a pretty lucid and well thought out suggestion. I don't know if it would work but props for ingenuity! :)
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I think the only issue with such a system is that each card would have to be rated. I dont think any way would make that balanced, and usually niche decks in the early parts of the week would stop out any competition with rediculously high scores from strong decks simply using different cards (See a concept like a working Overload shaman or a strong Pirate Warrior suddenly coming to fruition, using usually awful cards)
I like your concept, but looking at the BlizzCon Hearthstone Q&A, they really don't appear to be interested in providing any sort of rewards/ reasons to play besides fun and the one time Card Back with the Kobold King Lantern on.
I think the most reasonable thing they could do is to introduce a lucrative daily quest into the daily quest pool, similar to the Tavern Brawl daily quest, also the ability to 'Play X cards from Y class', within the Dungeon Run would ensure newer and older players who don't have a decent specific class deck, they could play 50 cards in that mode for a change of pace.
Yea, I'm kinda just posting on a dream here. :P I'm looking forward to the Dungeon Run quests though.
I think the only issue with such a system is that each card would have to be rated. I dont think any way would make that balanced, and usually niche decks in the early parts of the week would stop out any competition with rediculously high scores from strong decks simply using different cards (See a concept like a working Overload shaman or a strong Pirate Warrior suddenly coming to fruition, using usually awful cards)
Too complicated for Blizzard to code? It's not up to the players to calculate their Run Points. If they preform well, they get more points. They will not be told which cards are worth more or less points -- that's not necessary.
So its likely that each card wouldn't have a value -- just remove that variable -- and improve the points per boss completed per difficulty of the boss, and it'll simplify it as well as make "bad" cards not necessary for more points.
Thanks all for reading and replying though! :)
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
What about something simpler like each week Dungeon run keeps track of your farthest dungeon run, then at the end of each week you get a dungeon reward of 10g per boss completed on your farthest run of the week.
Best run of the week is beating 7 bosses? Get 70 gold! Best is 4 bosses? 40g. Maybe for a full clear of 8 bosses they can bump it to 100g. So basically giving the same reward as weekly Tavern Brawl, but you get to choose what pack you get as you're rewarded the 100g instead of a pack.
It's a small enough reward system of for easy gold in a single week that Blizzard could probably afford to implement it, and it simultaneously quiets some of the "Hearthstone is too expensive" chatter online as well as giving any new players an extra source of weekly income to start building up their sets.
I think this is too much effort for the dev team to polish it to that degree for a free run single player mode. The reward system that I agree with is via the Daily Quest. If there is a specific quest for the Dungeon Run, maybe "Defeat 4 Boss in Dungeon Run for 50 gold", I think It will be a good hook to attract people to play the mode. The Dungeon Run it self also can be made to interact with other quest, such as "Win X times with Y Class", this way new player that don't have decent deck for that class can finish the quest easily without facing a meta deck and felling horible for losing.
Using such point system basically eliminate the strategy component of the game entirely. Let’s say you are picking between 3 cards, before you need to consider which card is good, both objectively and relatively to your deck, now you need to consider which card has higher point. Then imagine a perfect world where points were balanced so well that picking whichever card will not affect the final score, statistically, there is literally nothing left to choose. Of course this will never be true, so player will end up picking the card that is imbalanced by the score system. So the the picking game would become a game to find the most imbalanced scored card. You are not playing hearthstone anymore, you are playing spreadsheet.
I Ike the weekly idea, blizz should have something like tavern brawl that keeps player logging back in every week. It appears to be ok to “force” player to play tavern brawl every week, I’d say I’m ok if I’m forced to play dungeon run every week. The point system basically counter reacts to player strategy, it needs to go. Probably the leaderboard should be as simple as how many bosses defeated. But why is there a leaderboard anyway, can’t it just gives out reward first run of every week? And the final boss rotates like tavern brawl to make it a bit more interesting?
What about something simpler like each week Dungeon run keeps track of your farthest dungeon run, then at the end of each week you get a dungeon reward of 10g per boss completed on your farthest run of the week.
Best run of the week is beating 7 bosses? Get 70 gold! Best is 4 bosses? 40g. Maybe for a full clear of 8 bosses they can bump it to 100g. So basically giving the same reward as weekly Tavern Brawl, but you get to choose what pack you get as you're rewarded the 100g instead of a pack.
It's a small enough reward system of for easy gold in a single week that Blizzard could probably afford to implement it, and it simultaneously quiets some of the "Hearthstone is too expensive" chatter online as well as giving any new players an extra source of weekly income to start building up their sets.
I actually really like this idea. It fixes the problems that many other folks had with "Too Complex" and causing "Weird" decks to be desired even if it doesn't function. I made the stretch forward with the Points System to have a Leaderboard, as I feel that would be something cool to see -- other folks' rankings in your region. Even cooler among friends.
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
The same rewards from Arena based on your placement in the Weekly Leaderboard.
Placed between 5000 and 2001 ~=~ Arena 2 wins.
Placed between 2000 and 501 ~=~ Arena 4 wins.
Placed between 500 and 101 ~=~ Arena 6 wins.
Placed between 100 and 4th ~=~ Arena 8 wins.
Placed at 3rd or 2nd ~=~ Arena 10 wins.
Placed at 1st ~=~ Arena 12 wins.
It's possible these rewards change depending on how difficult it is to complete runs or whatever, that's fully up to Blizzard if they implement it. I can also come back to this post after Dungeon Runs are out. I can record my wins and use that info to judge how easy to hard it is to get the full 8 boss defeats. And sometimes defeating 8 bosses won't always result in you getting 1st in the leaderboard.
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
What about something simpler like each week Dungeon run keeps track of your farthest dungeon run, then at the end of each week you get a dungeon reward of 10g per boss completed on your farthest run of the week.
Best run of the week is beating 7 bosses? Get 70 gold! Best is 4 bosses? 40g. Maybe for a full clear of 8 bosses they can bump it to 100g. So basically giving the same reward as weekly Tavern Brawl, but you get to choose what pack you get as you're rewarded the 100g instead of a pack.
It's a small enough reward system of for easy gold in a single week that Blizzard could probably afford to implement it, and it simultaneously quiets some of the "Hearthstone is too expensive" chatter online as well as giving any new players an extra source of weekly income to start building up their sets.
That is actually a great idea. I would just make it reward dust instead of gold
8 win get 80 dust
100 is roughly the same as the average dust packs value. But it remove the high roll of getting a legendary. Just a steady way to earn some dust. And in twenty weeks input gets you a free legendary. Should not banckrupt blizzard
That would make people still play ranked and casual because they are the only way to get gold and buy packs. But it would give free dust to new players so they can craft cars without having to dust so interesting cards.
A completly free mode that requires no collection at all to be played at all its level should never give any reward. It's there just for fun and entertainment not to give resources to buy new cards.
Not that I'm ok with that, but it's just how business models work: a time sinking mode to get some funny moments, but then if you want to enlarge your collection you have to spend some kind of resources (dust, gold, money).
The easiest way, i think could be, giving at the and of the run, an arena pack, like ones you get when an arena run ends, and it grows bigger, further you go in the dungeon. if you lose at the first boss you would get 5-20 dust or 10-20 gold or a common card. And the biggest prize can be something like an arena ticket, a card pack, or an epic. But reward is always just one arena pack. Because it will be free, maybe there can be a limit of runs we can play in a day or a week so noone can't spam the runs and they will also play other game modes.
Or maybe Blizzard is creating a mode for players that don't need to be rewarded, except for the thrill of solving the various puzzles.
So for you every player who would play that mode without any reward must not be rewarded? Srsly there's almost no rewarded in constructed and ppl still play it. That does not mean they don't like the little rewards they get...
This idea was before release and is no longer being discussed.
How I can imagine a reward system that doesn't force people to Dungeon Run:
DISCLAIMER: Blizzard would never go through the effort to actually create a points system. I would, Blizzard. I'll do it...
The value of the deck; Having a Flamestrike is worth a low amount of points while utilizing Demented Frostcaller can be worth more. The points per card will have to be really low, like 1, 2, or 3 points, as the longer you play the run, the more cards you have, and it's challenging to not scale exponentially. The points might have to be 0, 1, or 2.This idea, while sounding fair when coming up with it, did get counter-intuitive as folks mentioned later on. This just causes players to pick not-so-good cards to achieve more points. Not the goal of my points system.Obviously some numbers can change, and everyone likes having points in the thousands or 10 thousands, so its possible to just go crazy and multiply everything by 10, just so people can feel like their 8 win flawless game wasn't worth "only 150 points."
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
This is a pretty lucid and well thought out suggestion. I don't know if it would work but props for ingenuity! :)
Frankly, any weekly reward would be great for this mode. I'm still not sure, are you able to complete quests in this mode?
Too complicated.
I think the only issue with such a system is that each card would have to be rated. I dont think any way would make that balanced, and usually niche decks in the early parts of the week would stop out any competition with rediculously high scores from strong decks simply using different cards (See a concept like a working Overload shaman or a strong Pirate Warrior suddenly coming to fruition, using usually awful cards)
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
Thanks all for reading and replying though! :)
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
What about something simpler like each week Dungeon run keeps track of your farthest dungeon run, then at the end of each week you get a dungeon reward of 10g per boss completed on your farthest run of the week.
Best run of the week is beating 7 bosses? Get 70 gold! Best is 4 bosses? 40g. Maybe for a full clear of 8 bosses they can bump it to 100g. So basically giving the same reward as weekly Tavern Brawl, but you get to choose what pack you get as you're rewarded the 100g instead of a pack.
It's a small enough reward system of for easy gold in a single week that Blizzard could probably afford to implement it, and it simultaneously quiets some of the "Hearthstone is too expensive" chatter online as well as giving any new players an extra source of weekly income to start building up their sets.
If you could just fulfill "Win X games quest as Y." it would probably be enough.
I think this is too much effort for the dev team to polish it to that degree for a free run single player mode. The reward system that I agree with is via the Daily Quest. If there is a specific quest for the Dungeon Run, maybe "Defeat 4 Boss in Dungeon Run for 50 gold", I think It will be a good hook to attract people to play the mode. The Dungeon Run it self also can be made to interact with other quest, such as "Win X times with Y Class", this way new player that don't have decent deck for that class can finish the quest easily without facing a meta deck and felling horible for losing.
Using such point system basically eliminate the strategy component of the game entirely. Let’s say you are picking between 3 cards, before you need to consider which card is good, both objectively and relatively to your deck, now you need to consider which card has higher point. Then imagine a perfect world where points were balanced so well that picking whichever card will not affect the final score, statistically, there is literally nothing left to choose. Of course this will never be true, so player will end up picking the card that is imbalanced by the score system. So the the picking game would become a game to find the most imbalanced scored card. You are not playing hearthstone anymore, you are playing spreadsheet.
I Ike the weekly idea, blizz should have something like tavern brawl that keeps player logging back in every week. It appears to be ok to “force” player to play tavern brawl every week, I’d say I’m ok if I’m forced to play dungeon run every week. The point system basically counter reacts to player strategy, it needs to go. Probably the leaderboard should be as simple as how many bosses defeated. But why is there a leaderboard anyway, can’t it just gives out reward first run of every week? And the final boss rotates like tavern brawl to make it a bit more interesting?
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
What do i actually get from those runs ???
It's possible these rewards change depending on how difficult it is to complete runs or whatever, that's fully up to Blizzard if they implement it. I can also come back to this post after Dungeon Runs are out. I can record my wins and use that info to judge how easy to hard it is to get the full 8 boss defeats. And sometimes defeating 8 bosses won't always result in you getting 1st in the leaderboard.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
Too complicated, as mentioned already.
I'd just make it 150g entry fee, then depending on wins count:
0 wins: 1 pack;
8 wins: 3 packs, 150g, 150d, 1 rare or better card.
And some progression in-between.
Also I think you should be able to play until 3 losses like in normal Arena too.
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A completly free mode that requires no collection at all to be played at all its level should never give any reward. It's there just for fun and entertainment not to give resources to buy new cards.
Not that I'm ok with that, but it's just how business models work: a time sinking mode to get some funny moments, but then if you want to enlarge your collection you have to spend some kind of resources (dust, gold, money).
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
The easiest way, i think could be, giving at the and of the run, an arena pack, like ones you get when an arena run ends, and it grows bigger, further you go in the dungeon. if you lose at the first boss you would get 5-20 dust or 10-20 gold or a common card. And the biggest prize can be something like an arena ticket, a card pack, or an epic. But reward is always just one arena pack. Because it will be free, maybe there can be a limit of runs we can play in a day or a week so noone can't spam the runs and they will also play other game modes.
once per week if you complete a run with 3 or more wins (or something reasonably easy)
you get a card pack.
easy, not complicated, makes people play the mode and doesn't distrupts anything also make it long run enjoyable