I'd be interested to see your study on points 1 and 2, because all I saw so far from going through responses is that devs have apparently said its true. I wouldn't mind some citations there.
Hard agree on 3 though; anyone who says bgs isnt pay to win is wrong; with heroes mattering as much as they do, having two other options will increase your win rate in the long term.
Points 1 and 2 seem purely speculative to me, so I hope you can provide more information there. Also you unironically said 'mansplained' lol
How you think they predeterminate the players, which bracket they belong? Some are 10k, some are 3k etc. It dont make sense. It must be skill based in long term playing
I think the game is definitely rigged. You can't watch the opponent's first 4 attacks with AI-like precision dismantle your board doing a 1 in 700 sequence of events several times and come to the "it's just random" conclusion.
It's clearly not always random.
Do they do this to shorten the games? To make the games more exciting?
So the important thing is to have Taunts to somewhat suppress the ability of the game to screw you.
You not understanding how random things work is not the same thing as said randomness not existing.
I'd be interested to see your study on points 1 and 2, because all I saw so far from going through responses is that devs have apparently said its true. I wouldn't mind some citations there.
Hard agree on 3 though; anyone who says bgs isnt pay to win is wrong; with heroes mattering as much as they do, having two other options will increase your win rate in the long term.
Points 1 and 2 seem purely speculative to me, so I hope you can provide more information there. Also you unironically said 'mansplained' lol
3. Yeah I don't know how people can't say it's not when you're always going to choose one hero over another, they're definitely not balanced at all, and paying them money literally gives you 2 more heroes to choose from. Some guy even did the calculations for point 3 proving statistically you're twice as likely to win by buying the extra 2 hero choice. - Here
The luck stat, I was reading in some Q&A when they first released the mode, I'll go back and see if I can find it.
For 1. Though it was in one of the hearthstone panels at blizzcon, I think 2 years ago, but it might have been last years. Where they literally said that they basically rig it to make it so you're either matched up with people with a higher skill or lower skill to keep the win rate at around 50%. Which again there's no way to say that's not rigging the outcome of the game, because they literally say it is what happens. I'll go back and find both when I get back from Ocean City.
And to keep with replying backwards... I mean, he was kinda mansplaining. What I don't get is why they think I'm attacking the game and getting so defensive about it. I'm not saying it makes the game bad or any less fun. By all means, I love the game.
You sound like a broken record. You are clueless and you've convinced yourself that you know everything. You don't even have a basic idea of what randomness and rigging mean. I'm done.
You sound like a broken record. You are clueless and you've convinced yourself that you know everything. You don't even have a basic idea of what randomness and rigging mean. I'm done.
Yes because randomness is letting people choose from 2 extra heroes that is statistically proven to give you an advantage (BUT NOOO GIVING SOMEONE AN ADVANTAGE DOESN'T RIG THE GAME TOWARDS ANYONES FAVOR?!? THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS). Reducing a luck stat, and not letting anyone have a 100% win rate (in fact, basically forcing a ~50% win rate).
It's like you don't even know what you're trying to argue at this point. You can't refute any of the points I made other than saying "DURR U R WRONG CAUSE U DONT KNO" when picking and choosing the parts of a definition you want to listen to. I'm not insulting your precious wittle game dude. I'm stating facts that are literally discussed by the developers.
I enjoy the game, I play it nonstop, But that doesn't change the fact that it's rigged to some extent to keep you at a 50% win rate. (like the devs themselves have stated, but for some reason you're too far into denial to acknowledge.)
Even without the other two things, Just the fact that you can buy a statistically proven advantage is rigging.
These rigging posts are getting more ridicolous every year. Why would they rig BGs in the first place? Why would they waste resources to keep everyone at 50% in a game mode thats pretty much free to play and has no rewards?
There is this game mode thats called arena. Maybe you have heard about it. If you are good at the game you can have a complete constructed collection just by playing arena. So it would make sense for Blizzard to rig it, so they can sell more packs. It would be actually beneficial for the company to keep everyone at 50% winrate in arena. But guess what? The best players winrate are not even close to 50%. Good arena players can maintain a winrate over 70%. So its pretty obvious that arena is not rigged.
But for some reason they are using some secret code to keep everyone at 50% in battlegrounds. OK.
when you agree with terms and conditions, you agree with Blizzard to acknoledge and measure the interest in this game based on your time spend/money spend here. you agree with them to "fix" your pack oppening and the " luck" you get in your games.so ... what do you call rigged? you scored the "terms and agreements" button at check in
BGs is inherently rng heavy, and while skill matters, you will often get rng screwed even when you play the best you can.
So scaling above YOUR rank is just about grinding, to break the 6k MMR you have to grind all day, that's the rank where skill stops mattering and you won't climb by casual playing anymore.
To be fair there is a point. The psychological aspect of games is to keep you playing. Far smarter people than you, or I have analyzed the psychology of games, and you'd be quite surprised what is done (non-ethically) to increase engagement/screen time. I've long surmised that hearthstone is developed in a way to cause frustration to increase a desire to play out of "spite" - Again, there are studies showing that both the positive, and negative experiences in a video game stimulate the same areas as recreational drugs, or other manic activities.
From a coding perspective, i'm an engineer/.NET Developer/Programmer. I can assure you, i've built RNGenerators. Even if your goal is to produce entirely random outcomes you won't accomplish it. It's numerically impossible to qualify randomness, there is always some sub-strait of logic. Without access to their code, and design i doubt that was even their intent. Over 5+ years of HS i've witnessed things that would make a statistician cringe.
Overall, i don't care if it's rigged or not, it serves it's purpose.
If you want to get really reductive every game is just repetitive drivvle after a short amount of play.
It's definitely not a high skill game as ranking up is just a matter of understanding that the higher the rank the higher the try hard so you have to get more precise with your decisions.
While saying the game is rigged is a bit of a stretch, it's definitely not chess either. Probably closer to those "tap" games where you aren't really doing anything but the rewards activate dopamine.
One thing this definitely is is addictive. And battlegrounds is more laid back than the other modes.
Good to know that still in 2022 people don't understand what the 50% win rate actually means. Also not new in 2022 is their argument which sounds exactly the same as a flat earther.
These rigging posts are getting more ridicolous every year. Why would they rig BGs in the first place? Why would they waste resources to keep everyone at 50% in a game mode thats pretty much free to play and has no rewards?
There is this game mode thats called arena. Maybe you have heard about it. If you are good at the game you can have a complete constructed collection just by playing arena. So it would make sense for Blizzard to rig it, so they can sell more packs. It would be actually beneficial for the company to keep everyone at 50% winrate in arena. But guess what? The best players winrate are not even close to 50%. Good arena players can maintain a winrate over 70%. So its pretty obvious that arena is not rigged.
But for some reason they are using some secret code to keep everyone at 50% in battlegrounds. OK.
They've LITERALLY SAID that they keep BG's win rates at 50% I'm not sure how you guys can keep denying something the developers themselves have been very open with. Also, NO ONE is saying it's bad, I've been literally saying It's something common in auto-chess battler type games.... which this is... I'm just acknowledging something THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID. Which for some strange reason, none of you guys can comprehend, or accept since it's insulting your precious game.
It's not "some secret code" It's programming they've openly talked about. Why are you so daft? Is there something about what I'm writing that you can't comprehend?
Dude, I don’t even play seriously BGs only 1 game every 2/3 days, and I’m around 7.4k mmr, don’t understand your point about being rigged…
My point is, it's something the developers themselves have stated they added into BGs, It's a normal thing in Auto-Chess kind of games. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, nor am I saying it's difficult. I'm just saying it's Definitely there, I don't understand how people can deny it when the dev's literally had a discussion on it where they explained how it all works.
There's nothing nefarious about it, but that doesn't mean it's not rigging the game. People are just too daft to see it how it is because "rigging is bad and it insults my precious game". I like the game just like ya'll, I'm just calling it as I see it, and when the Devs talk about the luck % and how it affects keeping you at around a 50% win rate. It's not "stretching it" or "making things up because you lose". It's literally listening to the devs themselves have said.
These rigging posts are getting more ridicolous every year. Why would they rig BGs in the first place? Why would they waste resources to keep everyone at 50% in a game mode thats pretty much free to play and has no rewards?
There is this game mode thats called arena. Maybe you have heard about it. If you are good at the game you can have a complete constructed collection just by playing arena. So it would make sense for Blizzard to rig it, so they can sell more packs. It would be actually beneficial for the company to keep everyone at 50% winrate in arena. But guess what? The best players winrate are not even close to 50%. Good arena players can maintain a winrate over 70%. So its pretty obvious that arena is not rigged.
But for some reason they are using some secret code to keep everyone at 50% in battlegrounds. OK.
They've LITERALLY SAID that they keep BG's win rates at 50% I'm not sure how you guys can keep denying something the developers themselves have been very open with. Also, NO ONE is saying it's bad, I've been literally saying It's something common in auto-chess battler type games.... which this is... I'm just acknowledging something THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID. Which for some strange reason, none of you guys can comprehend, or accept since it's insulting your precious game.
It's not "some secret code" It's programming they've openly talked about. Why are you so daft? Is there something about what I'm writing that you can't comprehend?
Buddy, you just don't understand what they mean. It's more about how they match you with people. Once you find where you're supposed to be in terms of your ranking then you will likely have a win rate close to 50% with some variance because the game mode has a lot of luck involved. This is because you will simply be matched with similarly skilled players ("Worthy Opponents").
My rank is around 6500. But if I was able to play players with a ranking of 2500 I guarantee my win rate would be 80% or higher and then taper off as my ranking rises and close in on the 50% mark. Simply by playing against people closer to my level. Not by some forced algorithm.
Buddy, you just don't understand what they mean. It's more about how they match you with people. Once you find where you're supposed to be in terms of your ranking then you will likely have a win rate close to 50% with some variance because the game mode has a lot of luck involved. This is because you will simply be matched with similarly skilled players ("Worthy Opponents").
My rank is around 6500. But if I was able to play players with a ranking of 2500 I guarantee my win rate would be 80% or higher and then taper off as my ranking rises and close in on the 50% mark. Simply by playing against people closer to my level. Not by some forced algorithm.
As a developer, I DO understand what it means. The Luck stat itself is literally rigging the game for or against you depending on how well you're doing. Then the pay to get 2 more choices increases your ability to get a better hero by 50%. It's not nefarious, It's not an insult to the game or anything sneaky. It's something they themselves have discussed and a norm in auto-battlers. I don't though, understand how you guys can't understand it.
Paying to get a 50% chance to get a better hero increases your chance to win exponentially, which is rigging. Adding a luck stat to keep you at 50% is rigging. Even pushing you to play against people better or worse than you based on your w/l and rating is rigging. It's literally all forced algorithms.
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I'd be interested to see your study on points 1 and 2, because all I saw so far from going through responses is that devs have apparently said its true. I wouldn't mind some citations there.
Hard agree on 3 though; anyone who says bgs isnt pay to win is wrong; with heroes mattering as much as they do, having two other options will increase your win rate in the long term.
Points 1 and 2 seem purely speculative to me, so I hope you can provide more information there. Also you unironically said 'mansplained' lol
How you think they predeterminate the players, which bracket they belong? Some are 10k, some are 3k etc. It dont make sense. It must be skill based in long term playing
You not understanding how random things work is not the same thing as said randomness not existing.
All games are rigged in a way or another, so just just enjoy it for free or move on to another game.
3. Yeah I don't know how people can't say it's not when you're always going to choose one hero over another, they're definitely not balanced at all, and paying them money literally gives you 2 more heroes to choose from. Some guy even did the calculations for point 3 proving statistically you're twice as likely to win by buying the extra 2 hero choice. - Here
The luck stat, I was reading in some Q&A when they first released the mode, I'll go back and see if I can find it.
For 1. Though it was in one of the hearthstone panels at blizzcon, I think 2 years ago, but it might have been last years. Where they literally said that they basically rig it to make it so you're either matched up with people with a higher skill or lower skill to keep the win rate at around 50%. Which again there's no way to say that's not rigging the outcome of the game, because they literally say it is what happens. I'll go back and find both when I get back from Ocean City.
And to keep with replying backwards... I mean, he was kinda mansplaining. What I don't get is why they think I'm attacking the game and getting so defensive about it. I'm not saying it makes the game bad or any less fun. By all means, I love the game.
You sound like a broken record. You are clueless and you've convinced yourself that you know everything. You don't even have a basic idea of what randomness and rigging mean. I'm done.
🤣
Yes because randomness is letting people choose from 2 extra heroes that is statistically proven to give you an advantage (BUT NOOO GIVING SOMEONE AN ADVANTAGE DOESN'T RIG THE GAME TOWARDS ANYONES FAVOR?!? THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS). Reducing a luck stat, and not letting anyone have a 100% win rate (in fact, basically forcing a ~50% win rate).
It's like you don't even know what you're trying to argue at this point. You can't refute any of the points I made other than saying "DURR U R WRONG CAUSE U DONT KNO" when picking and choosing the parts of a definition you want to listen to. I'm not insulting your precious wittle game dude. I'm stating facts that are literally discussed by the developers.
I enjoy the game, I play it nonstop, But that doesn't change the fact that it's rigged to some extent to keep you at a 50% win rate. (like the devs themselves have stated, but for some reason you're too far into denial to acknowledge.)
Even without the other two things, Just the fact that you can buy a statistically proven advantage is rigging.
These rigging posts are getting more ridicolous every year. Why would they rig BGs in the first place? Why would they waste resources to keep everyone at 50% in a game mode thats pretty much free to play and has no rewards?
There is this game mode thats called arena. Maybe you have heard about it. If you are good at the game you can have a complete constructed collection just by playing arena. So it would make sense for Blizzard to rig it, so they can sell more packs. It would be actually beneficial for the company to keep everyone at 50% winrate in arena. But guess what? The best players winrate are not even close to 50%. Good arena players can maintain a winrate over 70%. So its pretty obvious that arena is not rigged.
But for some reason they are using some secret code to keep everyone at 50% in battlegrounds. OK.
when you agree with terms and conditions, you agree with Blizzard to acknoledge and measure the interest in this game based on your time spend/money spend here. you agree with them to "fix" your pack oppening and the " luck" you get in your games.so ... what do you call rigged? you scored the "terms and agreements" button at check in
Happy new year everyone!
Here's hoping Blizzard doesn't rig 2022.
Climbing in BGs is not about skill, tho
BGs is inherently rng heavy, and while skill matters, you will often get rng screwed even when you play the best you can.
So scaling above YOUR rank is just about grinding, to break the 6k MMR you have to grind all day, that's the rank where skill stops mattering and you won't climb by casual playing anymore.
To be fair there is a point. The psychological aspect of games is to keep you playing. Far smarter people than you, or I have analyzed the psychology of games, and you'd be quite surprised what is done (non-ethically) to increase engagement/screen time. I've long surmised that hearthstone is developed in a way to cause frustration to increase a desire to play out of "spite" - Again, there are studies showing that both the positive, and negative experiences in a video game stimulate the same areas as recreational drugs, or other manic activities.
From a coding perspective, i'm an engineer/.NET Developer/Programmer. I can assure you, i've built RNGenerators. Even if your goal is to produce entirely random outcomes you won't accomplish it. It's numerically impossible to qualify randomness, there is always some sub-strait of logic. Without access to their code, and design i doubt that was even their intent. Over 5+ years of HS i've witnessed things that would make a statistician cringe.
Overall, i don't care if it's rigged or not, it serves it's purpose.
Dude, I don’t even play seriously BGs only 1 game every 2/3 days, and I’m around 7.4k mmr, don’t understand your point about being rigged…
If you want to get really reductive every game is just repetitive drivvle after a short amount of play.
It's definitely not a high skill game as ranking up is just a matter of understanding that the higher the rank the higher the try hard so you have to get more precise with your decisions.
While saying the game is rigged is a bit of a stretch, it's definitely not chess either. Probably closer to those "tap" games where you aren't really doing anything but the rewards activate dopamine.
One thing this definitely is is addictive. And battlegrounds is more laid back than the other modes.
Good to know that still in 2022 people don't understand what the 50% win rate actually means. Also not new in 2022 is their argument which sounds exactly the same as a flat earther.
They've LITERALLY SAID that they keep BG's win rates at 50% I'm not sure how you guys can keep denying something the developers themselves have been very open with. Also, NO ONE is saying it's bad, I've been literally saying It's something common in auto-chess battler type games.... which this is... I'm just acknowledging something THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID. Which for some strange reason, none of you guys can comprehend, or accept since it's insulting your precious game.
It's not "some secret code" It's programming they've openly talked about. Why are you so daft? Is there something about what I'm writing that you can't comprehend?
My point is, it's something the developers themselves have stated they added into BGs, It's a normal thing in Auto-Chess kind of games. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, nor am I saying it's difficult. I'm just saying it's Definitely there, I don't understand how people can deny it when the dev's literally had a discussion on it where they explained how it all works.
There's nothing nefarious about it, but that doesn't mean it's not rigging the game. People are just too daft to see it how it is because "rigging is bad and it insults my precious game". I like the game just like ya'll, I'm just calling it as I see it, and when the Devs talk about the luck % and how it affects keeping you at around a 50% win rate. It's not "stretching it" or "making things up because you lose". It's literally listening to the devs themselves have said.
Buddy, you just don't understand what they mean. It's more about how they match you with people. Once you find where you're supposed to be in terms of your ranking then you will likely have a win rate close to 50% with some variance because the game mode has a lot of luck involved. This is because you will simply be matched with similarly skilled players ("Worthy Opponents").
My rank is around 6500. But if I was able to play players with a ranking of 2500 I guarantee my win rate would be 80% or higher and then taper off as my ranking rises and close in on the 50% mark. Simply by playing against people closer to my level. Not by some forced algorithm.
As a developer, I DO understand what it means. The Luck stat itself is literally rigging the game for or against you depending on how well you're doing. Then the pay to get 2 more choices increases your ability to get a better hero by 50%. It's not nefarious, It's not an insult to the game or anything sneaky. It's something they themselves have discussed and a norm in auto-battlers. I don't though, understand how you guys can't understand it.
Paying to get a 50% chance to get a better hero increases your chance to win exponentially, which is rigging. Adding a luck stat to keep you at 50% is rigging. Even pushing you to play against people better or worse than you based on your w/l and rating is rigging. It's literally all forced algorithms.