As soon as you realize BG is not a competitive game where you can affect the outcome with skill, you can approach it more chill. Just enjoy the highroll when you get it, and if you don't, move on to the next game and pray for better rng.
I agree with OP. Battlegrounds has always been a high variance game mode, but now it feels like a freaking slot machine, where you have pretty much zero control over your destiny if you don't get scaling in place early.
Even in the poisonous divine shield meta you could often eek out a top3/4 going midrange if you knew you had no shot at really winning, and you had actual choices on which direction to go.
Now some endgame strategies come online too fast and just trump everything that is thrown at them.
Also, the gap in power between heroes right now is almost ridiculous.
I mean, elementals are fun, but I feel a bit of nerfs will need to happen kinda soon.
I don't mind the current meta, but I do acknowledge several important issues that need to be fixed.
First are the heroes in general. Right now you have ~30 heroes that can only hope to get top 4 by high rolling, versus 15 that are decent to OP. Top 4 is usually 2-3 high-tier heroes and 1-2 high rolling others. The difference in power level between Ragnaros and Bartendotron, for example, is huge. I feel like Blizzard should try and come with a major balance patch to lift up lower performing heroes to a higher standard. And bring down the obviously OP Ragnaros and Jandice.
I think Murlocs, Dragons and Beasts are in the correct spot, powerlevel-wise. Mechs and Demons are underperforming and Elementals are overperforming. Probably the easiest fix is, what someone else suggested already, by swapping the current tier 5 and 6 Elementals. Specifically, Little Rag and Nomi need to move up and the Djinni and Garr can move down.
I don't mind the current meta, but I do acknowledge several important issues that need to be fixed.
First are the heroes in general. Right now you have ~30 heroes that can only hope to get top 4 by high rolling, versus 15 that are decent to OP. Top 4 is usually 2-3 high-tier heroes and 1-2 high rolling others. The difference in power level between Ragnaros and Bartendotron, for example, is huge. I feel like Blizzard should try and come with a major balance patch to lift up lower performing heroes to a higher standard. And bring down the obviously OP Ragnaros and Jandice.
I think Murlocs, Dragons and Beasts are in the correct spot, powerlevel-wise. Mechs and Demons are underperforming and Elementals are overperforming. Probably the easiest fix is, what someone else suggested already, by swapping the current tier 5 and 6 Elementals. Specifically, Little Rag and Nomi need to move up and the Djinni and Garr can move down.
Lol, you can't balance 50 heroes. This is like asking for 50 viable decks in the meta, all at the same power level. Something will always be tier 1 and something will be tier 4, this is how metas in general work. They buffed Maiev and The Lich King so that now they are top tier, but did they just add up to the existing tier 1 and make it wider? No, they just outperform the heroes that were previously Tier 1, so that now they are lower.
When it comes to heroes BG is already quite balanced with two exceptions - Rag and Jandice - which by themselves basically guarantee a top 4 placing. Everything else you can end up either 8th or 1st and your hero usually has nothing to do with that.
Seriously, people are asking for too much without even considering the implications. Show me a game, where everything is viable - not just that you CAN win (because it already works like this in BG), but where everything is roughly at the same power level and split in 1 or 2 tiers max and I will gladly admit I was wrong (and probably play that game, because it has to be hella fun).
Lol, you can't balance 50 heroes. This is like asking for 50 viable decks in the meta, all at the same power level. Something will always be tier 1 and something will be tier 4, this is how metas in general work. They buffed Maiev and The Lich King so that now they are top tier, but did they just add up to the existing tier 1 and make it wider? No, they just outperform the heroes that were previously Tier 1, so that now they are lower.
When it comes to heroes BG is already quite balanced with two exceptions - Rag and Jandice - which by themselves basically guarantee a top 4 placing. Everything else you can end up either 8th or 1st and your hero usually has nothing to do with that.
Seriously, people are asking for too much without even considering the implications. Show me a game, where everything is viable - not just that you CAN win (because it already works like this in BG), but where everything is roughly at the same power level and split in 1 or 2 tiers max and I will gladly admit I was wrong (and probably play that game, because it has to be hella fun).
While you can't balance 50 - i would like to see them tweak some to at least make them interesting, even though they might be bad. Chenvaala is a garbage Noz/Omu. Wagtogle is ???. Hooktusk and Maly are almost the same hero. Make Toki great again.
The damage is still the main issue, along with Jandice IMO. Being blown out in a single round for 25+ damage before you have a chance to get a build going sucks. Overall though I feel elementals have improved the game - I like how they play, they are perhaps a little OP, but that is easily fixed with a nerf or two. maximising your play with htem is quite skill intensive. I like that 2 tribes are excluded every game and hope they continue to add more- it makes games feel more varied - and once elementals are no longer in every game this feeling will increase.
I feel like a lot of people are crying because they can't adapt quickly enough and are getting blown out by elemental builds by those that can - once they click and you know how to play them you'll be fine - and they won't be in every game for long.
Jandice though, I could moan about Jandice all fucking day...
I think it's bad, but not the worst. I feel like Brann+Megasaur+Murlocs was still much more annoying, because once someone had that comp you basically just had to concede.
I agree with a lot of the statements in this thread, too many heroes are trash tier and Elementals are probably too powerful.
Honestly though, I think my bigger issue is with the new ranking system. I'm only at 4k MMR, but every game I get +300 rank, whether I'm 1st or 4th. Maybe this will change as I continue to climb, but wtf? That totally ruins the feeling dueling it out to try and get 1st place.
Lastly - does anyone else have issues with the Elemental buff animations? They seem craaaazy long. Wondering if this is on purpose so that you can't absolutely run away with the game, but for a tribe that wants to play lots of minions per turn, it's really annoying.
I think it's bad, but not the worst. I feel like Brann+Megasaur+Murlocs was still much more annoying, because once someone had that comp you basically just had to concede.
I agree with a lot of the statements in this thread, too many heroes are trash tier and Elementals are probably too powerful.
Honestly though, I think my bigger issue is with the new ranking system. I'm only at 4k MMR, but every game I get +300 rank, whether I'm 1st or 4th. Maybe this will change as I continue to climb, but wtf? That totally ruins the feeling dueling it out to try and get 1st place.
Lastly - does anyone else have issues with the Elemental buff animations? They seem craaaazy long. Wondering if this is on purpose so that you can't absolutely run away with the game, but for a tribe that wants to play lots of minions per turn, it's really annoying.
Once your hidden MMR and visual ranking overlap, you will get the normal 100 Points for 1st place. They done this so you'll climb faster (like in constructed) so you reach the place where you actually belong faster Your hidden MMR is still affected by your placement, so 1st or 4th or 8th still has an impact. Until your MMR and ranking overlaps, it's just not as visually. Blizzard said it'll take around 60 games for that to happen, if you were decently placed prior to the reset.
I just feels like the winner is either cheese or someone who hits the nuts with Elementals. I've tried almost every build to get around it but everything dies to a Mega-Windfury monstrosity.
Now I'll start by saying I'm not the best player, but I used to place top 4 about 75% of the time and now I place top 4 about 30% of the time. I don't know if that's because the matchmaking has reset or because I'm just playing badly. But I don't feel like I'm suddenly worse at the game.
Just played rag... When my hero power activated I just casually got a win streak by pressing tavern up 3 turns in a row because nothing could challenge me either way.
Then I finished second because I tried to play deathrattle beasts but that build endgame is dead right now since mega windfury elemental just rips through entire board before macaw gets to attack.
100% agree with the first post. It’s awful. No way they play tested this. The worst part about it is that even Jandice and Rags aren’t fun to play, just get your pogos or ds windfury ele/cave cleave and zzzzz
Different games of chance and skill all lie somewhere along a scale of 100% chance and 0% skill (bingo) to 0% chance and 100% skill (chess). Each person has their own perfect point on that scale and a range of values they find entertaining enough to engage in.
Texas Hold'em is as popular as it is because it sits at mix of chance and skill that a great number of people find acceptable to engage in. It also is a great point for deceptively giving the appearance that anyone can sit down and compete at with little preparation. This brings in the fish that the experienced players can take advantage of. If the % of chance changed, the fish might disappear and the popularity and point for the sharks to play with it.
Hearthstone exists on this scale. Battlegrounds exists on a different, more chance based point on the scale.
My impression of the new changes is that Battlegrounds has made an additional step towards chance. You must scale stats very quickly now, which is strongly tied to which minions appear in the tavern and what Heros you get to choose from. I am dying earlier more often now, not leaving as much time to find what you need and get set up. Some of that is due to my needing to adjust strategy, but so far I do not think strategy explains the shift outright.
I do not claim to be a solid BG player, in fact I am still new to it. Just my $0.02.
This is a pretty terrible meta. If Bob gives you trash and a couple of other people cherries, it doesn't matter much what you do.
In this meta, if everyone has 8 mana and you don't have at least one triple or 2 of the solid Tier 3 minions you might as well get out.
2 or 3 players already have solid scaling in place and you are not only not going to get it, but even if you do it's too late.
Dude just chill, is just a casual/fun gamemode
The imbalance between different heroes is just too big. Pretty often it's just an insta-concede fest. See Ragnaros vs one of the many bad heroes.
As for elementals, I like them, but it's annoying that they have to be in every lobby instead of being sometimes excluded like all the other tribes.
As soon as you realize BG is not a competitive game where you can affect the outcome with skill, you can approach it more chill. Just enjoy the highroll when you get it, and if you don't, move on to the next game and pray for better rng.
I agree with OP. Battlegrounds has always been a high variance game mode, but now it feels like a freaking slot machine, where you have pretty much zero control over your destiny if you don't get scaling in place early.
Even in the poisonous divine shield meta you could often eek out a top3/4 going midrange if you knew you had no shot at really winning, and you had actual choices on which direction to go.
Now some endgame strategies come online too fast and just trump everything that is thrown at them.
Also, the gap in power between heroes right now is almost ridiculous.
I mean, elementals are fun, but I feel a bit of nerfs will need to happen kinda soon.
I don't mind the current meta, but I do acknowledge several important issues that need to be fixed.
First are the heroes in general. Right now you have ~30 heroes that can only hope to get top 4 by high rolling, versus 15 that are decent to OP. Top 4 is usually 2-3 high-tier heroes and 1-2 high rolling others. The difference in power level between Ragnaros and Bartendotron, for example, is huge. I feel like Blizzard should try and come with a major balance patch to lift up lower performing heroes to a higher standard. And bring down the obviously OP Ragnaros and Jandice.
I think Murlocs, Dragons and Beasts are in the correct spot, powerlevel-wise. Mechs and Demons are underperforming and Elementals are overperforming. Probably the easiest fix is, what someone else suggested already, by swapping the current tier 5 and 6 Elementals. Specifically, Little Rag and Nomi need to move up and the Djinni and Garr can move down.
Lol, you can't balance 50 heroes. This is like asking for 50 viable decks in the meta, all at the same power level. Something will always be tier 1 and something will be tier 4, this is how metas in general work. They buffed Maiev and The Lich King so that now they are top tier, but did they just add up to the existing tier 1 and make it wider? No, they just outperform the heroes that were previously Tier 1, so that now they are lower.
When it comes to heroes BG is already quite balanced with two exceptions - Rag and Jandice - which by themselves basically guarantee a top 4 placing. Everything else you can end up either 8th or 1st and your hero usually has nothing to do with that.
Seriously, people are asking for too much without even considering the implications. Show me a game, where everything is viable - not just that you CAN win (because it already works like this in BG), but where everything is roughly at the same power level and split in 1 or 2 tiers max and I will gladly admit I was wrong (and probably play that game, because it has to be hella fun).
Had more fun when I realized I can't just focus on elementals.
While you can't balance 50 - i would like to see them tweak some to at least make them interesting, even though they might be bad. Chenvaala is a garbage Noz/Omu. Wagtogle is ???. Hooktusk and Maly are almost the same hero. Make Toki great again.
The damage is still the main issue, along with Jandice IMO. Being blown out in a single round for 25+ damage before you have a chance to get a build going sucks. Overall though I feel elementals have improved the game - I like how they play, they are perhaps a little OP, but that is easily fixed with a nerf or two. maximising your play with htem is quite skill intensive. I like that 2 tribes are excluded every game and hope they continue to add more- it makes games feel more varied - and once elementals are no longer in every game this feeling will increase.
I feel like a lot of people are crying because they can't adapt quickly enough and are getting blown out by elemental builds by those that can - once they click and you know how to play them you'll be fine - and they won't be in every game for long.
Jandice though, I could moan about Jandice all fucking day...
I think it's bad, but not the worst. I feel like Brann+Megasaur+Murlocs was still much more annoying, because once someone had that comp you basically just had to concede.
I agree with a lot of the statements in this thread, too many heroes are trash tier and Elementals are probably too powerful.
Honestly though, I think my bigger issue is with the new ranking system. I'm only at 4k MMR, but every game I get +300 rank, whether I'm 1st or 4th. Maybe this will change as I continue to climb, but wtf? That totally ruins the feeling dueling it out to try and get 1st place.
Lastly - does anyone else have issues with the Elemental buff animations? They seem craaaazy long. Wondering if this is on purpose so that you can't absolutely run away with the game, but for a tribe that wants to play lots of minions per turn, it's really annoying.
Once your hidden MMR and visual ranking overlap, you will get the normal 100 Points for 1st place. They done this so you'll climb faster (like in constructed) so you reach the place where you actually belong faster Your hidden MMR is still affected by your placement, so 1st or 4th or 8th still has an impact. Until your MMR and ranking overlaps, it's just not as visually. Blizzard said it'll take around 60 games for that to happen, if you were decently placed prior to the reset.
I just feels like the winner is either cheese or someone who hits the nuts with Elementals. I've tried almost every build to get around it but everything dies to a Mega-Windfury monstrosity.
Now I'll start by saying I'm not the best player, but I used to place top 4 about 75% of the time and now I place top 4 about 30% of the time. I don't know if that's because the matchmaking has reset or because I'm just playing badly. But I don't feel like I'm suddenly worse at the game.
Just played Ragnaros for the 1st time... HE IS BEYOND BROKEN!!!
Just played rag... When my hero power activated I just casually got a win streak by pressing tavern up 3 turns in a row because nothing could challenge me either way.
Then I finished second because I tried to play deathrattle beasts but that build endgame is dead right now since mega windfury elemental just rips through entire board before macaw gets to attack.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
100% agree with the first post. It’s awful. No way they play tested this. The worst part about it is that even Jandice and Rags aren’t fun to play, just get your pogos or ds windfury ele/cave cleave and zzzzz
If you used to place top 4 75% then you are the best player that ever played. Just sayin
Different games of chance and skill all lie somewhere along a scale of 100% chance and 0% skill (bingo) to 0% chance and 100% skill (chess). Each person has their own perfect point on that scale and a range of values they find entertaining enough to engage in.
Texas Hold'em is as popular as it is because it sits at mix of chance and skill that a great number of people find acceptable to engage in. It also is a great point for deceptively giving the appearance that anyone can sit down and compete at with little preparation. This brings in the fish that the experienced players can take advantage of. If the % of chance changed, the fish might disappear and the popularity and point for the sharks to play with it.
Hearthstone exists on this scale. Battlegrounds exists on a different, more chance based point on the scale.
My impression of the new changes is that Battlegrounds has made an additional step towards chance. You must scale stats very quickly now, which is strongly tied to which minions appear in the tavern and what Heros you get to choose from. I am dying earlier more often now, not leaving as much time to find what you need and get set up. Some of that is due to my needing to adjust strategy, but so far I do not think strategy explains the shift outright.
I do not claim to be a solid BG player, in fact I am still new to it. Just my $0.02.
F.... Ing Lagging. In mobile 1game normal speed. After that is terrible slow.
When it was worse than now? When they'll launch a new tribe and/or new heroes in the future. I don't remember people saying BGs are balanced.