Yep, loving this patch so far. It's easier to get far without having a high optimised roll if you know what to do. Or at least that's how it's working out for me.
I for one do not welcome our new Lich King overlord.
I can't say for sure whether beasts are OP in the grand scheme of things as there are plenty of viable end game builds, but I think it's the ability to transition so easily that puts them over the top. If you discover a Mama Bear on curve, it doesn't matter what your board looks like. Barring some very bad tavern luck, you can basically build a competitive board in one turn that will allow you to rush T5 and put the finishing touches on a monster beast comp.
I think the rest of the T5 tribal minions need some love. Junkbot needs a rework. Demons need a T5 minion that actually scales the rest of your board permanently rather than the fleeting Mal'Ganis effect. Sneed's Old Shredder is just hot garbage.
Man the longer I play this patch the more I realize that the skill impact on your placement has drastically reduced with how short the games are due to the damage you receive. If they don't change something very, very soon I fear for the mode itself. I'll probably stop playing soon until a new patch hit.
In the previous patch you needed strategy and luck to place high, in this patch you need almost only luck to make it beyond turn 9 to begin with. Super, super dumb.
Man the longer I play this patch the more I realize that the skill impact on your placement has drastically reduced with how short the games are due to the damage you receive. If they don't change something very, very soon I fear for the mode itself. I'll probably stop playing soon until a new patch hit.
In the previous patch you needed strategy and luck to place high, in this patch you need almost only luck to make it beyond turn 9 to begin with. Super, super dumb.
I feel like it's a pretty easy fix, just give all patchwork HP...see how things go with 50hp, rather than 40. Doesn't sound like much I know, but I think it would be all it needed.
I feel like it's a pretty easy fix, just give all patchwork HP...see how things go with 50hp, rather than 40. Doesn't sound like much I know, but I think it would be all it needed.
I feel 10 HP isn't enough on average. Maybe keep 40HP and introduce a 15 damage cap. This way you don't have this "lose once and you are dead 27 high-roll mama bear bullshit".
Could just cut minion damage in half. 0 damage from tokens, 1 damage from 1/2 star units, 2 damage from 3/4 star, 3 damage from 5/6 star. Doesn't really change early game damage much, but it'll cut down significantly on highroll damage from early high-tier units, or Ghastcoiler/Ship BS. Since they're real minions and not tokens, they'd do damage, but just a lot less.
It think it's unbereably fast and therefore way too luck/rng dependant.
And I mean: way too luck/rng dependant.
By the time you can actually start some decision making, with the majority of heroes at least, you're around turn 6/7 and you can be dead by huge/insane amount of damage thanks to tokens or pirates in like turn 8 or 9, the time when you have some decision making power and start to think a build.
If we add that chances are that somebody high rolls, and I'm cool with that, the game tends to be over before it start to be fun or when you're about to start actually doing something.
My 2 cents:
give back megasaur or some alternative that's not so oppressing
delete rat pack, beasts are really too good from start to finish, forcing them is actually better than most strategies
think about mama bear, maybe it's the case to revert it to tavern 6
Also this fast paced games I think they deprive of utilies heroes like Bigglesworth (or Alexstraza) which need a longer lifespan of games to be enjoyable, rendering them not worth picking if not for turning the wheel of fortune.
This patch gives back variety but either we start with 50 health or more or a change more "build-oriented" and less luck-oriented should take place.
I am a low ranking 5K-ish BG player and play casually. The BG games now feel much faster after the patch. IMO minion types become less relevant in early game, and anything that make my warband tile a 2-hitter can help me survive. This focus change increased the RNG but IMO this is where the fun is :P~~~. I just want to play any tiles and triple anything and see what I get, then if luck gives me a hint on a late build, I just try it.
Its just like playing japanese mahjong games, and I learnt to observe my luck and felt happy whether I am lucky or not :P~~~.
I think what I need in BG now is a temporary chatroom for the 8, which will be super fun :P~~~
I would just reduce Infested Wolf cost to 2 stars or remove him from the game entirely. For me it always was just a worse version of Rat Pack. It has +1/+1 stats, but can't scale his deathrattle and becomes useless very quickly. This is probably the worst minion from tavern tier 3 (or second to The Beast).
After playing it a bit more, I think the strongest mechanic is divine shield. I had a mix minions game with all divine shields and was destroying the opponent. Gold bolivar and the dragon that buffs is extremely strong. It makes murlocs cry, well, so long as they don’t have a gold brann.
Doing Reno, get an early Golden Spawn, discover a 4 drop. Herald of Flame. OK, maybe. I take a risk and Golden it, and one-shot my next two opponent's boards. I've got some good pairs, and discover a 6 drop a few turns later. Not Kalecgos, so I just fizzle out. It's highroll like mad, or die wicked early, before the game feels like it started. Just so dang fast. Kinda feels like a reasonable midrange start gets you basically nowhere anymore. Closest thing to an actually-fun-game this entire afternoon.
Seems like you used to be able to play for like 2nd or 3rd place if you didn't get some astonishing highroll, but now... like... SMDH...
Doing Reno, get an early Golden Spawn, discover a 4 drop. Herald of Flame. OK, maybe. I take a risk and Golden it, and one-shot my next two opponent's boards. I've got some good pairs, and discover a 6 drop a few turns later. Not Kalecgos, so I just fizzle out. It's highroll like mad, or die wicked early, before the game feels like it started. Just so dang fast. Kinda feels like a reasonable midrange start gets you basically nowhere anymore. Closest thing to an actually-fun-game this entire afternoon.
Seems like you used to be able to play for like 2nd or 3rd place if you didn't get some astonishing highroll, but now... like... SMDH...
Exactly, highroll or bust, "OK" is not good enough anymore...
Doing Reno, get an early Golden Spawn, discover a 4 drop. Herald of Flame. OK, maybe. I take a risk and Golden it, and one-shot my next two opponent's boards. I've got some good pairs, and discover a 6 drop a few turns later. Not Kalecgos, so I just fizzle out. It's highroll like mad, or die wicked early, before the game feels like it started. Just so dang fast. Kinda feels like a reasonable midrange start gets you basically nowhere anymore. Closest thing to an actually-fun-game this entire afternoon.
Seems like you used to be able to play for like 2nd or 3rd place if you didn't get some astonishing highroll, but now... like... SMDH...
Depends on the tribe you're going for, I think. That's definitely the case with Dragons, because there's only one viable scaling option for them at T5 and T6 (and they're both slow to the point that you're probably just dead if you find them too late). Whereas if you're building a beast or Pirate board, there are multiple viable options from those discovers. And they don't have the ability to continue scaling off of T3 and T4 like mechs.
I think I'm pretty much just done with Dragons, barring something wonky like a Kalecgos off of a Shifter. There are a couple useful minions in there, but as a full comp they're just not strong enough in the mid-game to justify how completely dependent they are upon finding one T6 minion to scale late.
Doing Reno, get an early Golden Spawn, discover a 4 drop. Herald of Flame. OK, maybe. I take a risk and Golden it, and one-shot my next two opponent's boards. I've got some good pairs, and discover a 6 drop a few turns later. Not Kalecgos, so I just fizzle out. It's highroll like mad, or die wicked early, before the game feels like it started. Just so dang fast. Kinda feels like a reasonable midrange start gets you basically nowhere anymore. Closest thing to an actually-fun-game this entire afternoon.
Seems like you used to be able to play for like 2nd or 3rd place if you didn't get some astonishing highroll, but now... like... SMDH...
Depends on the tribe you're going for, I think. That's definitely the case with Dragons, because there's only one viable scaling option for them at T5 and T6 (and they're both slow to the point that you're probably just dead if you find them too late). Whereas if you're building a beast or Pirate board, there are multiple viable options from those discovers. And they don't have the ability to continue scaling off of T3 and T4 like mechs.
I think I'm pretty much just done with Dragons, barring something wonky like a Kalecgos off of a Shifter. There are a couple useful minions in there, but as a full comp they're just not strong enough in the mid-game to justify how completely dependent they are upon finding one T6 minion to scale late.
Feels hard to get a reasonable pirate build off the ground to me, too. I dunno. Feels like there use to be more time in the game to figure out a strat, see what you get, change directions, and so forth. The really high-damage rounds just seem like they're starting a lot earlier, and health totals where you had two or three losses to give before feel like it's one or two now.
The feeling of "Well, it didn't work out, but I was kinda competitive and maybe could have done it" seems a lot harder to accomplish these days. I feel that's really important for a game. When the only two outcomes seem like massive win, or never really competed, that deadens the joy of playing a few games.
Regardless of how the wins feel, the amount fun in losing games just has gone down for me, in a way that feels structural to how BGs are currently set up. Necessarily, 7 out of 8 players "lose" the round. Making sure that these losses aren't too soul-crushing has got to be one of the top priorities for the longevity of a game like this.
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Yep, loving this patch so far. It's easier to get far without having a high optimised roll if you know what to do. Or at least that's how it's working out for me.
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This is the issue atm:
I lost only twice from 38HP and died on turn 9 or 10 with this board.
If I would have survived that turn or won, I'd deal the same amount to my enemy. It's super dumb how high-roll and fast the games are.
There are almost 4 players dead by turn 9 in half the games. The damage is way too high and needs to be dealt with.
I for one do not welcome our new Lich King overlord.
I can't say for sure whether beasts are OP in the grand scheme of things as there are plenty of viable end game builds, but I think it's the ability to transition so easily that puts them over the top. If you discover a Mama Bear on curve, it doesn't matter what your board looks like. Barring some very bad tavern luck, you can basically build a competitive board in one turn that will allow you to rush T5 and put the finishing touches on a monster beast comp.
I think the rest of the T5 tribal minions need some love. Junkbot needs a rework. Demons need a T5 minion that actually scales the rest of your board permanently rather than the fleeting Mal'Ganis effect. Sneed's Old Shredder is just hot garbage.
Man the longer I play this patch the more I realize that the skill impact on your placement has drastically reduced with how short the games are due to the damage you receive. If they don't change something very, very soon I fear for the mode itself. I'll probably stop playing soon until a new patch hit.
In the previous patch you needed strategy and luck to place high, in this patch you need almost only luck to make it beyond turn 9 to begin with. Super, super dumb.
I feel like it's a pretty easy fix, just give all patchwork HP...see how things go with 50hp, rather than 40. Doesn't sound like much I know, but I think it would be all it needed.
I feel 10 HP isn't enough on average. Maybe keep 40HP and introduce a 15 damage cap. This way you don't have this "lose once and you are dead 27 high-roll mama bear bullshit".
Could just cut minion damage in half. 0 damage from tokens, 1 damage from 1/2 star units, 2 damage from 3/4 star, 3 damage from 5/6 star. Doesn't really change early game damage much, but it'll cut down significantly on highroll damage from early high-tier units, or Ghastcoiler/Ship BS. Since they're real minions and not tokens, they'd do damage, but just a lot less.
It think it's unbereably fast and therefore way too luck/rng dependant.
And I mean: way too luck/rng dependant.
By the time you can actually start some decision making, with the majority of heroes at least, you're around turn 6/7 and you can be dead by huge/insane amount of damage thanks to tokens or pirates in like turn 8 or 9, the time when you have some decision making power and start to think a build.
If we add that chances are that somebody high rolls, and I'm cool with that, the game tends to be over before it start to be fun or when you're about to start actually doing something.
My 2 cents:
Also this fast paced games I think they deprive of utilies heroes like Bigglesworth (or Alexstraza) which need a longer lifespan of games to be enjoyable, rendering them not worth picking if not for turning the wheel of fortune.
This patch gives back variety but either we start with 50 health or more or a change more "build-oriented" and less luck-oriented should take place.
I am a low ranking 5K-ish BG player and play casually. The BG games now feel much faster after the patch. IMO minion types become less relevant in early game, and anything that make my warband tile a 2-hitter can help me survive. This focus change increased the RNG but IMO this is where the fun is :P~~~. I just want to play any tiles and triple anything and see what I get, then if luck gives me a hint on a late build, I just try it.
Its just like playing japanese mahjong games, and I learnt to observe my luck and felt happy whether I am lucky or not :P~~~.
I think what I need in BG now is a temporary chatroom for the 8, which will be super fun :P~~~
:P~~~
That’s the worst idea anyone has ever had.
Maybe together with a choice of muting :P~~~
I agree serious BGers don't want chatting during the play
:P~~~
No to everything else you said but yes to this.
Losing to this or a pirate boat that randomly drops only t5-6 units is annoying af.
Fun > Meta
Now I think of it, they have to do something about having both Rat Pack and Infested Wolf at tier 3.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
I would just reduce Infested Wolf cost to 2 stars or remove him from the game entirely. For me it always was just a worse version of Rat Pack. It has +1/+1 stats, but can't scale his deathrattle and becomes useless very quickly. This is probably the worst minion from tavern tier 3 (or second to The Beast).
Infested Wolf is slightly too good at tavern 2 and not good enough for tavern 3.
I'm all for removing rat pack tho.
After playing it a bit more, I think the strongest mechanic is divine shield. I had a mix minions game with all divine shields and was destroying the opponent. Gold bolivar and the dragon that buffs is extremely strong. It makes murlocs cry, well, so long as they don’t have a gold brann.
Game is just feeling too dang fast.
Doing Reno, get an early Golden Spawn, discover a 4 drop. Herald of Flame. OK, maybe. I take a risk and Golden it, and one-shot my next two opponent's boards. I've got some good pairs, and discover a 6 drop a few turns later. Not Kalecgos, so I just fizzle out. It's highroll like mad, or die wicked early, before the game feels like it started. Just so dang fast. Kinda feels like a reasonable midrange start gets you basically nowhere anymore. Closest thing to an actually-fun-game this entire afternoon.
Seems like you used to be able to play for like 2nd or 3rd place if you didn't get some astonishing highroll, but now... like... SMDH...
Exactly, highroll or bust, "OK" is not good enough anymore...
Depends on the tribe you're going for, I think. That's definitely the case with Dragons, because there's only one viable scaling option for them at T5 and T6 (and they're both slow to the point that you're probably just dead if you find them too late). Whereas if you're building a beast or Pirate board, there are multiple viable options from those discovers. And they don't have the ability to continue scaling off of T3 and T4 like mechs.
I think I'm pretty much just done with Dragons, barring something wonky like a Kalecgos off of a Shifter. There are a couple useful minions in there, but as a full comp they're just not strong enough in the mid-game to justify how completely dependent they are upon finding one T6 minion to scale late.
Feels hard to get a reasonable pirate build off the ground to me, too. I dunno. Feels like there use to be more time in the game to figure out a strat, see what you get, change directions, and so forth. The really high-damage rounds just seem like they're starting a lot earlier, and health totals where you had two or three losses to give before feel like it's one or two now.
The feeling of "Well, it didn't work out, but I was kinda competitive and maybe could have done it" seems a lot harder to accomplish these days. I feel that's really important for a game. When the only two outcomes seem like massive win, or never really competed, that deadens the joy of playing a few games.
Regardless of how the wins feel, the amount fun in losing games just has gone down for me, in a way that feels structural to how BGs are currently set up. Necessarily, 7 out of 8 players "lose" the round. Making sure that these losses aren't too soul-crushing has got to be one of the top priorities for the longevity of a game like this.