so many players tr6 to force murlocs each game, only one wins with it. That’s the issue. Everyone is losing to a single murloc player who gets lucky while often 2-3 others lose trying to force murlocs. This dilutes the murloc winrate.
TLDR blizzard doesn’t see murlocs as a problem because 3 out of 8 players lose with murlocs every game they are available.
meanwhile, one player gets an early megasaur on turn 6 and the game is effectively over for everyone else.
I think It's fine. You're risking a lot if you force a comp. If you are hard forcing murlocs the chances are it will backfire more often than be a good outcome.
Like I once rolled on t6 20 times and didn't find a megasaur. Insta lost.
I think It's fine. You're risking a lot if you force a comp. If you are hard forcing murlocs the chances are it will backfire more often than be a good outcome.
Like I once rolled on t6 20 times and didn't find a megasaur. Insta lost.
The issue with Murloc is how easy it is to transition from any build into them late game. Brann + Lookout is by far the biggest culprit in the success of Murlocs. It enables big stats, makes it "free" (3 minions for 3g), and enables easy tripples which lead to easy Amalgadon and Megasaurs.
Your golden 9/16 Murloc you kept from t2 is not the issue.
There is only 1 issue with murlocs. There is no other composition who stand a chance against fully developed murloc comp. The game needs every comp to be able to at least compete in late game with them, thats also why everybody forcing murlocs now.
There is only 1 issue with murlocs. There is no other composition who stand a chance against fully developed murloc comp. The game needs every comp to be able to at least compete in late game with them, thats also why everybody forcing murlocs now.
I got second yesterday vs Dragons with Divine Shields. Granted I didn't have Divine Shields myself, but I had really huge murlocs and poison on 6 of them. Even the Ghoul wouldn't help me, because it would just be killed by the dragon, which grants shields, and they would gain them afterwards.
I appreciate I would still beat them should I have Divine Shields myself, but 100% composition with poison AND Divine Shields on everything is rarer than people think. I had what you pretty much expect from the late game murlocs and got pretty hard countered.
As you said it your late game wasnt complete while dragons was and still i imagine it was pretty close fight if you had divine shields they stand no chance only with ghoul. As you said final forms of compositions are kinda rare ok. But that applies for every comp if you take dragons you need 2 kalecgoses to be able to keep up with scaling and then nadina so total of 3 specific six drops and then you can get wreck by murlocs who get bran + 1 megasaur and little luck. And every other comp is the same.
As you said it your late game wasnt complete while dragons was and still i imagine it was pretty close fight if you had divine shields they stand no chance only with ghoul. As you said final forms of compositions are kinda rare ok. But that applies for every comp if you take dragons you need 2 kalecgoses to be able to keep up with scaling and then nadina so total of 3 specific six drops and then you can get wreck by murlocs who get bran + 1 megasaur and little luck. And every other comp is the same.
Full Dragons vs Full Murlocs, Dragons still win as long as they find Ghoul. It pops the bubbles on Murlocs, while Dragons gain theirs afterwards. So I still consider it a direct counter, but as I mentioned - Dragons as a whole are bad, so it's probably not the best choice.
Full Dragons vs Full Murlocs, Dragons still win as long as they find Ghoul. It pops the bubbles on Murlocs, while Dragons gain theirs afterwards. So I still consider it a direct counter, but as I mentioned - Dragons as a whole are bad, so it's probably not the best choice.
And then you add Plants into the mix and huge stats and it's not the case anymore. A perfect murloc build will beat any other perfect build.
As Zuku said if you dont have at least double Kaly murlocs just outgrow you easily + spores will pop up shields. But lets look on other tribes deamons/pirates it doesnt matter how big they are they get wrecked. Beasts get wreck. Teoreticaly mech/divine shield comp is the only one that can beat them cause of shield resets but they just cant keep up with murloc scaling. So thats it... when you had Holy mackerel ok it was bad cause it can wonyou single handadly win you games and it was strongest minion in game by far... but youcould use them in lot of compositions so they enabled those weaker mid game compositions to exist until they get late game mackerels so it was more diverse than now.
No. The true issue is that 4 players go for Murlocs in the first place. There is no fun what so ever to play against 4 of the same comps. If always one of those manages to get easy first place with ridiculous poisons, that only makes it worse.
Because everybody knows that murlocs are the only choice to get 1st place they try to force it cause they dont care about top 4 finish. Just want that sweet win.
Eliminate Lookout and Khadgar, since this would cut off the rapid transition into Murlocs, but would leave the potential for highroll. Maybe not preferable, but the late-game swap to Murlocs is kind of absurd.
Eliminate Toxifin and replace Megasaur with Scalelord. Basically, this removes poison. Transitions are still possible, but with low attack, it's probably not worth it. There'd probably need to be some sort of new poison minion, perhaps a no-tribe of some sort, to increase the options to deal with stuff that scales out of control. But it shouldn't be stuff like Toxifin or Venomizer that makes already strong minions into auto-kill nightmares.
I've come around to really thinking the problem is poison. You can out-stat Divine Shields, or clear them away with the various splash-damage hero powers and minions and tokens and such. You can't out-stat poison, and murlocs are the only tribe to get poison very easily.
Actually a did that late game transition few minutes ago without khadgar but with golden bran i picked bran thinking i will go managerie a then bam 2 other branns :D and as reward megasaur i had no murloc that time bud picked tidehunter + lookout and long story short 1st place.
But to the topic Im kinda lore idiot so lorewise i get that murlocs can be poisonous but i have no idea how would they obtain divine shield so i would rather get rid of divine shields. I would also get rid of khadgar he is used only for that transition fighting power 0. And i think this would be enough.
Murlocs are problematic because they are either too strong, either too weak. Without poison you pretty much need stats to win or even to survive, but that requires very early Brann (preferably from some golden minion on T4 tavern). Yet, despite all efforts and luck, sometimes even that is not enough, because murlocs scale very poorly compared to dragons (in late game) or pirates. And if you don't get Brann at all (or too late), then your only hope is poison and divine shield (you critically need both, which means you need 2x Megasaur or 1x Megasaur and many Toxifins), otherwise you're dead.
What I'm trying to say is that murlocs kinda need all of these tools. The problem occurs only when they get them all at once. In my opinion, the only solution is complete redesign of murlocs. They need better scaling (especially in the early and mid game), but Brann and poison must go.
so many players tr6 to force murlocs each game, only one wins with it. That’s the issue. Everyone is losing to a single murloc player who gets lucky while often 2-3 others lose trying to force murlocs. This dilutes the murloc winrate.
TLDR blizzard doesn’t see murlocs as a problem because 3 out of 8 players lose with murlocs every game they are available.
meanwhile, one player gets an early megasaur on turn 6 and the game is effectively over for everyone else.
No Sweat, Blizz already moved Goldrynn to T6 and introduced Amalgam to............ Oh wait, that doesnt help either
I think It's fine. You're risking a lot if you force a comp. If you are hard forcing murlocs the chances are it will backfire more often than be a good outcome.
Like I once rolled on t6 20 times and didn't find a megasaur. Insta lost.
The issue with Murloc is how easy it is to transition from any build into them late game. Brann + Lookout is by far the biggest culprit in the success of Murlocs. It enables big stats, makes it "free" (3 minions for 3g), and enables easy tripples which lead to easy Amalgadon and Megasaurs.
Your golden 9/16 Murloc you kept from t2 is not the issue.
There is only 1 issue with murlocs. There is no other composition who stand a chance against fully developed murloc comp. The game needs every comp to be able to at least compete in late game with them, thats also why everybody forcing murlocs now.
I got second yesterday vs Dragons with Divine Shields. Granted I didn't have Divine Shields myself, but I had really huge murlocs and poison on 6 of them. Even the Ghoul wouldn't help me, because it would just be killed by the dragon, which grants shields, and they would gain them afterwards.
I appreciate I would still beat them should I have Divine Shields myself, but 100% composition with poison AND Divine Shields on everything is rarer than people think. I had what you pretty much expect from the late game murlocs and got pretty hard countered.
The problem is Dragons suck though.
As you said it your late game wasnt complete while dragons was and still i imagine it was pretty close fight if you had divine shields they stand no chance only with ghoul. As you said final forms of compositions are kinda rare ok. But that applies for every comp if you take dragons you need 2 kalecgoses to be able to keep up with scaling and then nadina so total of 3 specific six drops and then you can get wreck by murlocs who get bran + 1 megasaur and little luck. And every other comp is the same.
Full Dragons vs Full Murlocs, Dragons still win as long as they find Ghoul. It pops the bubbles on Murlocs, while Dragons gain theirs afterwards. So I still consider it a direct counter, but as I mentioned - Dragons as a whole are bad, so it's probably not the best choice.
And then you add Plants into the mix and huge stats and it's not the case anymore. A perfect murloc build will beat any other perfect build.
As Zuku said if you dont have at least double Kaly murlocs just outgrow you easily + spores will pop up shields. But lets look on other tribes deamons/pirates it doesnt matter how big they are they get wrecked. Beasts get wreck. Teoreticaly mech/divine shield comp is the only one that can beat them cause of shield resets but they just cant keep up with murloc scaling. So thats it... when you had Holy mackerel ok it was bad cause it can wonyou single handadly win you games and it was strongest minion in game by far... but youcould use them in lot of compositions so they enabled those weaker mid game compositions to exist until they get late game mackerels so it was more diverse than now.
No. The true issue is that 4 players go for Murlocs in the first place.
There is no fun what so ever to play against 4 of the same comps.
If always one of those manages to get easy first place with ridiculous poisons, that only makes it worse.
Because everybody knows that murlocs are the only choice to get 1st place they try to force it cause they dont care about top 4 finish. Just want that sweet win.
I'd go one of two directions:
I've come around to really thinking the problem is poison. You can out-stat Divine Shields, or clear them away with the various splash-damage hero powers and minions and tokens and such. You can't out-stat poison, and murlocs are the only tribe to get poison very easily.
Actually a did that late game transition few minutes ago without khadgar but with golden bran i picked bran thinking i will go managerie a then bam 2 other branns :D and as reward megasaur i had no murloc that time bud picked tidehunter + lookout and long story short 1st place.
But to the topic Im kinda lore idiot so lorewise i get that murlocs can be poisonous but i have no idea how would they obtain divine shield so i would rather get rid of divine shields. I would also get rid of khadgar he is used only for that transition fighting power 0. And i think this would be enough.
Murlocs are problematic because they are either too strong, either too weak. Without poison you pretty much need stats to win or even to survive, but that requires very early Brann (preferably from some golden minion on T4 tavern). Yet, despite all efforts and luck, sometimes even that is not enough, because murlocs scale very poorly compared to dragons (in late game) or pirates. And if you don't get Brann at all (or too late), then your only hope is poison and divine shield (you critically need both, which means you need 2x Megasaur or 1x Megasaur and many Toxifins), otherwise you're dead.
What I'm trying to say is that murlocs kinda need all of these tools. The problem occurs only when they get them all at once. In my opinion, the only solution is complete redesign of murlocs. They need better scaling (especially in the early and mid game), but Brann and poison must go.