Is it me or are they very weak atm? I barely have succes with them. Even with a proper Board and Triple into Kaly at 5, its barely enough. And then you still have to find Nadina at some Point..... They are too slow everytime i go for them.
The enabler for the dragon build that will win games (if dragons win) is in tier 6 - which is really late. By comparison, I'm pretty sure the best build of every other tribe (or menagerie) is tier 5 or lower.
With the game being so aggressive these days (I think games go for what, about 15 turns on average?) having a tier 6 enabler is pretty brutal. Not only that, but it doesn't even have immediate impact (like Megasaur would, even if you don't have Brann at the time) - you generally need a turn cycle or two to get the battlecries to really start scaling your squad, and that's assuming that you're already dragons and don't have to pivot into them after getting Kalec.
I mean, compare it to Dread Admiral. I'd say Hogger is the enabler of the better pirate build (so tier 5, one tier earlier), but even if you consider Dread Admiral - you can play her straight away, and she's buffing your squad (unless she gets sniped, but Zapp not withstanding that's like a 1/7 if you have no taunts).
I think they are ok ish but a mid game carry would help.
The early game can be very strong tho so that s why I think it's somehow balanced, however what I don't like is there is almost no skill involved. If you get the strong early it's just by chance, if you get an early kalegos it's just by chance. Of course that's how the game works in general but for other builds there is more leeway, more options so that it feels like you can actually make choices
Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse.
Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.
Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse.
Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.
To be fair, dragons get divine shield - and potentially, 2 lots of it at the very end of the game (two Nadinas - though while the first is easy to get maximum value out of, or near-maximum, the second requires favourable hits to get max value out of). This allows them to beat some other raw stats builds, and potentially even murlocs (who get single divine shield, but usually scale better and their attack stat doesn't generally matter). Note that this is all potential - so much has to go right for dragons in this matchup, which is why murlocs usually win it (if dragons do beat murlocs, it's usually with a Ghoul exploding first to pop all their shields, followed by a Nadina being popped to give them the shields - but even then, murlocs scale so much that the dragons may not have enough attack to one shot the murlocs, which they need to win the matchup).
I agree that pirates are better though - but that's because pirates come online earlier, and start growing earlier, so if a dragon build successfully gets a Kalec or two they still take at least a few turns to catch up, then more turns to overtake, and by that point the game is usually over.
Pretty much, the entirety of the issue with dragons is that games are often ending around turn 15, which makes a tier 6 dependent build very unreliable (Razorgore alone isn't enough to win it for them). No other tribe requires a tier 6 unit to work - tier 6 can make some of them better (like Mama Bear or Maexnna being added to a Macaw/Goldrinn beast build), but the key units for basically every other tribe are tier 5 or below.
Even those tribes that don't typically get dominant endgames like mechs and demons have such better midgames than dragons, in general, which makes those tribes better. I usually don't pick them because I like a tribe that has the potential to win rather than top 4-ing, but if the goal is to gain ELO - which means getting top 4 - then I'd be surprised if dragons aren't at the bottom of the heap right now.
Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse.
Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.
No, pirates can't scale stats without very specific cards and tavern rolls and even then get no shields, meaning poison counter them and any build with shields scales effectively twice as fast.
They are the worst tribe currently. They require the highest amount of luck to make top 4 with.
The best pirate is GoldGrubber, which doesn't require other pirates to work and which all other people will take from you anyway.
One of my last game strategy was ghoul+nedina+5 big dragons agaisnt divine shield poisonous murlocs. Long story short, i won. The ghoul took the divine shield from the murlocs and nedina gave it to my dragons.
You can pull staff like that. The problem is not that they are not powerful but it is that they are not reliable.
I think they are just fine. You could build a decent comp that allows you to get one spot in top 4. I think people dont realize what the goal of bg is. It is not to be first. It is to be top 4. You should not go everytime for murlocs only because they scale well in the lategame. You should see what you are offered and what others are playing and decide the best strat for you.
For example if everybody is being greedy and going murlocs. The best you can do is smack them in the face in the middle game and hope to be 3 or 4. Why? Because it is obvious that someone is going to succed with that comp and beat you but you can guarante a good position if you punish the other greedy players for their greed.
If you can high roll an early razorgore you can stabilize the mid game and then work towards that kalecgos finish, but that’s just it, it’s a high roll. Just finished a match where the Alex player discovered two razorgores on turn 5. It was obvious they were going to win and they did.
Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse.
Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.
No, pirates can't scale stats without very specific cards and tavern rolls and even then get no shields, meaning poison counter them and any build with shields scales effectively twice as fast.
They are the worst tribe currently. They require the highest amount of luck to make top 4 with.
The best pirate is GoldGrubber, which doesn't require other pirates to work and which all other people will take from you anyway.
Second best pirate; The canon. lol.
I'm not sure if I can agree with that idea, while pirates don't have a lot of pre combat buffs, they can get big fast mid combat. The pirate that gives all pirates +2/+2 when they attack and combined with a sea captain or two will outscale all early/mid game stats. Then you get the windfury pirate and an admiral or two and then your late game pirates are huge.
Is it me or are they very weak atm?
I barely have succes with them. Even with a proper Board and Triple into Kaly at 5, its barely enough. And then you still have to find Nadina at some Point.....
They are too slow everytime i go for them.
The enabler for the dragon build that will win games (if dragons win) is in tier 6 - which is really late. By comparison, I'm pretty sure the best build of every other tribe (or menagerie) is tier 5 or lower.
With the game being so aggressive these days (I think games go for what, about 15 turns on average?) having a tier 6 enabler is pretty brutal. Not only that, but it doesn't even have immediate impact (like Megasaur would, even if you don't have Brann at the time) - you generally need a turn cycle or two to get the battlecries to really start scaling your squad, and that's assuming that you're already dragons and don't have to pivot into them after getting Kalec.
I mean, compare it to Dread Admiral. I'd say Hogger is the enabler of the better pirate build (so tier 5, one tier earlier), but even if you consider Dread Admiral - you can play her straight away, and she's buffing your squad (unless she gets sniped, but Zapp not withstanding that's like a 1/7 if you have no taunts).
They are slow, simple as that. Their mid-game sucks, so you have to factor a couple of losses on tier 3-4.
And because the game has become so fast, two games lost at tier 3-4 usually mean you are done for.
I think they are ok ish but a mid game carry would help.
The early game can be very strong tho so that s why I think it's somehow balanced, however what I don't like is there is almost no skill involved. If you get the strong early it's just by chance, if you get an early kalegos it's just by chance. Of course that's how the game works in general but for other builds there is more leeway, more options so that it feels like you can actually make choices
if you can pull dragons become extremely strong it can even beat the murlocs with divine shield poison but it is really hard to build a dragon team
Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse.
Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.
To be fair, dragons get divine shield - and potentially, 2 lots of it at the very end of the game (two Nadinas - though while the first is easy to get maximum value out of, or near-maximum, the second requires favourable hits to get max value out of). This allows them to beat some other raw stats builds, and potentially even murlocs (who get single divine shield, but usually scale better and their attack stat doesn't generally matter). Note that this is all potential - so much has to go right for dragons in this matchup, which is why murlocs usually win it (if dragons do beat murlocs, it's usually with a Ghoul exploding first to pop all their shields, followed by a Nadina being popped to give them the shields - but even then, murlocs scale so much that the dragons may not have enough attack to one shot the murlocs, which they need to win the matchup).
I agree that pirates are better though - but that's because pirates come online earlier, and start growing earlier, so if a dragon build successfully gets a Kalec or two they still take at least a few turns to catch up, then more turns to overtake, and by that point the game is usually over.
Pretty much, the entirety of the issue with dragons is that games are often ending around turn 15, which makes a tier 6 dependent build very unreliable (Razorgore alone isn't enough to win it for them). No other tribe requires a tier 6 unit to work - tier 6 can make some of them better (like Mama Bear or Maexnna being added to a Macaw/Goldrinn beast build), but the key units for basically every other tribe are tier 5 or below.
Even those tribes that don't typically get dominant endgames like mechs and demons have such better midgames than dragons, in general, which makes those tribes better. I usually don't pick them because I like a tribe that has the potential to win rather than top 4-ing, but if the goal is to gain ELO - which means getting top 4 - then I'd be surprised if dragons aren't at the bottom of the heap right now.
No, pirates can't scale stats without very specific cards and tavern rolls and even then get no shields, meaning poison counter them and any build with shields scales effectively twice as fast.
They are the worst tribe currently. They require the highest amount of luck to make top 4 with.
The best pirate is GoldGrubber, which doesn't require other pirates to work and which all other people will take from you anyway.
Second best pirate; The canon. lol.
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I agree
One of my last game strategy was ghoul+nedina+5 big dragons agaisnt divine shield poisonous murlocs. Long story short, i won. The ghoul took the divine shield from the murlocs and nedina gave it to my dragons.
You can pull staff like that. The problem is not that they are not powerful but it is that they are not reliable.
I think they are just fine. You could build a decent comp that allows you to get one spot in top 4. I think people dont realize what the goal of bg is. It is not to be first. It is to be top 4. You should not go everytime for murlocs only because they scale well in the lategame. You should see what you are offered and what others are playing and decide the best strat for you.
For example if everybody is being greedy and going murlocs. The best you can do is smack them in the face in the middle game and hope to be 3 or 4. Why? Because it is obvious that someone is going to succed with that comp and beat you but you can guarante a good position if you punish the other greedy players for their greed.
It is not about being first but being top 4.
If you can high roll an early razorgore you can stabilize the mid game and then work towards that kalecgos finish, but that’s just it, it’s a high roll. Just finished a match where the Alex player discovered two razorgores on turn 5. It was obvious they were going to win and they did.
I'm not sure if I can agree with that idea, while pirates don't have a lot of pre combat buffs, they can get big fast mid combat. The pirate that gives all pirates +2/+2 when they attack and combined with a sea captain or two will outscale all early/mid game stats. Then you get the windfury pirate and an admiral or two and then your late game pirates are huge.
They could use a dragon that gives a random dragon 1/1 at the begining or end of a turn. You can't really buff them until late game otherwise.